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Author Topic: Stealth Equipment.  (Read 20901 times)

Mrjunkie

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Stealth Equipment.
« on: March 20, 2013, 12:08:14 PM »
I appreciate the new stealth items added, though i must say, they are an extremely rare drop.

They seem to have been added and the old gear removed.
Since the loot tabels have been alterd, i have not heard of or seen any formerly ''Common'' stealth gear dropping.

Shadow Armour.
Greater Forest Mantel.
Hectors Boots.
Wraith Belt.

Seems to add in 1% dropable loot the other items have been stripped, wich is severely detremental to any new enrolled stealthers who are now heavily outclassed in comparison to rogue's created 6 months ago.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 06:39:41 PM by Bluebomber4evr »

Dumas

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2013, 12:22:45 PM »
I don't have any of those for my rogue... [cries]

Nor have I seen any new stealth items yet....

Are these all hiding in high level places?

Mrjunkie

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2013, 12:27:13 PM »
They used to be found in specific points on the server, but those loot tabels were refreshed so currently as far as i know, non-existant.

BahamutZ3RO

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2013, 12:46:00 PM »
I think this is true of all sorts of gear and I gotta say, I don't really understand the loot system. It seems that most of the rarities are found in low-level Barovia instead of higher level areas.
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Avatar6666

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2013, 12:48:20 PM »
I think this is true of all sorts of gear and I gotta say, I don't really understand the loot system. It seems that most of the rarities are found in low-level Barovia instead of higher level areas.

yea I do not understand that either...No wonder high levels hang around the outskirts....


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shadymerchant

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2013, 01:26:43 PM »
I think this is true of all sorts of gear and I gotta say, I don't really understand the loot system. It seems that most of the rarities are found in low-level Barovia instead of higher level areas.

yea I do not understand that either...No wonder high levels hang around the outskirts....

This does not make sense.

In any case, spot items regularly drop in perfidus and sometimes coa mine. Likely on ghakis. Stealth gear once dropped in perfidus but it may be non existant or extremely rare. I believe stealth items also drop in hag locations, but i dont know how often that happens now.


Since i have hit perf, the desert, and coal mines the most out of those places, i have collected about 6 +5 spot helms and 8 spot rings. I have found maybe 4 inza daggers. They seem to have dissapeared from coal mines.


Needless to say, the drop split seems pretty lopsided on the side of spot gear.

eyeofpestilence

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2013, 02:46:18 PM »

Needless to say, the drop split seems pretty lopsided on the side of spot gear.
and listen gear.

I find it especially odd that stealth gear all seems to be 1% drop yet spot/listen gear is common vendor trash items. Spot and Listen gear are common +5 items while the counter Hide/MS gear is almost always +4. Given to stealth a PC is required to beat by d20 the spotter/listener this makes stealth a giant waste of points and feats when the d20 is rolled every 6 seconds. Current gear set up has Listen/Spot pc's half a Stealth PC's lvl or less being scene or heard.

Since the unknown or hidden is a classic part of horror, and espionage has been around forever, it would make sense that stealth gear would be better and more abundant than it currently is. Mind you the argument of "There's no way someone could stay hidden in a room" will pop up. I'll simply counter with "There is no way someone can raise the dead or stop time". Better yet, there is no way the rings amulet and helms should be as overpowered relative to available sneak gear.

It's magic environment. Spot and Listen gear is Magic, wouldn't those interested in stealth have gear which makes them counter available Spot/Listen gear?

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FullMoon

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2013, 03:04:48 PM »
So you are saying an average rogue with say a 16 dex and max hide/ms would need to be lvl 13 (with no gear or extra feats) to beat someone with 0 spot/listen ?

APorg

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2013, 03:15:08 PM »
So you are saying an average rogue with say a 16 dex and max hide/ms would need to be lvl 13 (with no gear or extra feats) to beat someone with 0 spot/listen ?

To be certain of it, about that, yes, as Hide/MS checks are made every 6 seconds. If the rogue has +18 total, the minimum he can roll is a 19, so someone with 0 spot/listen needs to roll a twenty to even have a chance of beating the stealth (assuming no other modifiers). In that scenario, there's a 1 / 400 chance of the rogue being detected; which on average means about 200 rounds undetected. That's not so bad but it decreases rapidly after that: if you give the rogue say +9 instead, he'll only have around a 61% chance of passing a single roll (if my maths doesn't fail me), which means he'll likely be detected in half a dozen rounds if he's lucky.
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ThePwush

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2013, 03:20:41 PM »
So you are saying an average rogue with say a 16 dex and max hide/ms would need to be lvl 13 (with no gear or extra feats) to beat someone with 0 spot/listen ?

To be certain of it, about that, yes, as Hide/MS checks are made every 6 seconds. If the rogue has +18 total, the minimum he can roll is a 19, so someone with 0 spot/listen needs to roll a twenty to even have a chance of beating the stealth (assuming no other modifiers). In that scenario, there's a 1 / 400 chance of the rogue being detected; which on average means about 200 rounds undetected. That's not so bad but it decreases rapidly after that: if you give the rogue say +9 instead, he'll only have around a 61% chance of passing a single roll (if my maths doesn't fail me), which means he'll likely be detected in half a dozen rounds if he's lucky.

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APorg

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2013, 03:23:03 PM »
it's just basic probability mathematics! If you're rolling two d20s there's 400 possible outcomes... I could make a spreadsheet function...
Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.
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ThePwush

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2013, 03:24:47 PM »
it's just basic probability mathematics! If you're rolling two d20s there's 400 possible outcomes... I could make a spreadsheet function...

Non-mathite here. I'm like a Barovian when it comes to math...it's magical and scary to me  :lol:
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Bluebomber4evr

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2013, 03:25:30 PM »
Nothing was removed.

There's just more variety of things in each loot table so it doesn't always spawn the same old stuff now.

Also, some items have had their gp values adjusted.

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FullMoon

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2013, 03:31:52 PM »
Still sounds like the server heavily favours the spot/listener over the stealther.

eyeofpestilence

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2013, 03:32:54 PM »
So you are saying an average rogue with say a 16 dex and max hide/ms would need to be lvl 13 (with no gear or extra feats) to beat someone with 0 spot/listen ?
To remain hidden, Yes.

Thanks Appro for the math. ;)

Nothing was removed.

There's just more variety of things in each loot table so it doesn't always spawn the same old stuff now.

Also, some items have had their gp values adjusted.

Blue,

If more variety has been added which is decreasing likelihood of viable rogue gear dropping to almost never, should they not potentially be made more common. Alternatively can spot and listen gear be made significantly less common so they drop at similar rate?

What would be really nice, since Belt of Wraith has had value adjust b/c of spells on it, more mundane non-spell items be added. Not sure whom uses the uses of Listen on cloak of silence or the charges on belt of wraith.

Thanks DW!

eyeofpestilence

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2013, 03:33:40 PM »
Still sounds like the server heavily favours the spot/listener over the stealther.
+1 (000000000)

Thanks DW!

Bluebomber4evr

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2013, 03:45:10 PM »
If you want more stealth gear, that's what this thread is for: http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=5772.0

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APorg

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2013, 04:41:11 PM »
Okay, you're scary....

N.b. my maths was wrong but I've got it right now. I can post the spreadsheet that explains it if people are interested... :p
Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

Lucadia

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2013, 04:47:05 PM »
Okay, you're scary....

N.b. my maths was wrong but I've got it right now. I can post the spreadsheet that explains it if people are interested... :p

This is what you done with your time while the server was down?  :shock:

APorg

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2013, 04:48:40 PM »
This is what you done with your time while the server was down?  :shock:

>.> Maybe.
Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

BahamutZ3RO

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2013, 04:51:05 PM »
I think the problem that the community is trying to address here is that the loot tables are skewed in what they're generating, all across the server.
: )




Bluebomber4evr

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2013, 04:58:24 PM »
I think the problem that the community is trying to address here is that the loot tables are skewed in what they're generating, all across the server.
Again, that's what the item request thread is for.

None of the items listed in the initial post were removed from the loot tables. If any of you feel that there is a lack of a certain kind of item, submit a request on the item request thread and it will be added if it's reasonable.

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Apocrypha

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2013, 05:01:52 PM »
Okay, you're scary....

N.b. my maths was wrong but I've got it right now. I can post the spreadsheet that explains it if people are interested... :p

This would be interesting to see, post that toast!
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ThePwush

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2013, 05:05:02 PM »
Okay, you're scary....

N.b. my maths was wrong but I've got it right now. I can post the spreadsheet that explains it if people are interested... :p

This is what you done with your time while the server was down?  :shock:

I would crack a joke about this, but I'm the one who just posted a 32 page guide to monks. Hehehehehehe.
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Lucadia

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Re: Stealth Equipment.
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2013, 05:08:00 PM »
Blue, I think we are trying address that the detection gear drops far more common then stealth gear, even though theres a lot more stealth gear in total over detection.

the +5 spot helms are supper common, but iv not seen a single piece of stealth gear in a month