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Author Topic: Rogues & Open lock  (Read 37481 times)

dutchy

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2013, 06:17:01 PM »
That is all very black and white.

If other classes where ment to have lock pick as a skill, they would.

OR

if they wernt ment to use the skill they wouldn't be able to invest points in them and use the tools and rings etc.

just covering all bases here  8)
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Lucadia

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2013, 06:20:12 PM »
Now if we could get the spell knock to be castable on other classes *whistles*

Kaspar

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2013, 06:21:04 PM »
Now if we could get the spell knock to be castable on other classes *whistles*

Or get it removed.  :angel:

Juice

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2013, 06:22:43 PM »
That is all very black and white.

If other classes where ment to have lock pick as a skill, they would.

You're wrong.
If other classes weren't meant to have Open Lock, they wouldn't be allowed to purchase it Cross Class.
Like other classes aren't allowed to purchase UMD, even Cross Class.
Other classes are MEANT to be able to Open Locks; the Rogue's ADVANTAGE is the ability to buy it as a Class Skill.

Well then to solve the rings problem just like it was mentioned before slap the "Only useable by rogue" sticker on them bards are the only other class with UMD.

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2013, 06:23:39 PM »
That is all very black and white.

If other classes where ment to have lock pick as a skill, they would.

You're wrong.
If other classes weren't meant to have Open Lock, they wouldn't be allowed to purchase it Cross Class.
Like other classes aren't allowed to purchase UMD, even Cross Class.
Other classes are MEANT to be able to Open Locks; the Rogue's ADVANTAGE is the ability to buy it as a Class Skill.

Well then to solve the rings problem just like it was mentioned before slap the "Only useable by rogue" sticker on them bards are the only other class with UMD.

Assassins get umd too.

Juice

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2013, 06:26:08 PM »
Assassins get umd too.

Assassins also get open lock so wouldnt need UMD in this case

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APorg

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2013, 06:26:50 PM »
Well then to solve the rings problem just like it was mentioned before slap the "Only useable by rogue" sticker on them bards are the only other class with UMD.

Again: Rogues aren't meant to be the only people capable of opening locks.

Rogues already have an advantage in Open Lock.

As for Knock, it is already nerfed. A level 3 table top wizard could use Knock to open a DC50 chest.
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MadJKevlar

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2013, 06:29:32 PM »
Jack of all master at none? isent it reasonable to assume that with enough time practice and the right tools any one may be good at any one given skill? there are variables to consider like how much inventory and weight it takes for a character to carry all the different tools required to compete at a professional level with a true master, they pay large amounts of coin out for the equipment needed or have to under take life threatening risks like looting picks from Harakir to compete on a professional level with a true master. Its takes points from other attributes to INT score for a fighter or a cleric to have the extra skill points to devote to other skills for 2sps a shot. Thus the game balance is already in place, a slightly higher then normal Int fighter or cleric is losing points to either con, wisdom, strength, or charisma, and are probably not as strong as they could be in there main class role for the devotion they have given to another area, things like who is opening traps, locks, collecting loot, getting doors, buffing party members, and standing on the front line are RP issues not Item balance issues.

Juice

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2013, 06:34:28 PM »
Well then to solve the rings problem just like it was mentioned before slap the "Only useable by rogue" sticker on them bards are the only other class with UMD.

Again: Rogues aren't meant to be the only people capable of opening locks.
Rogues already have an advantage in Open Lock.
As for Knock, it is already nerfed. A level 3 table top wizard could use Knock to open a DC50 chest.

Not enough of an advantage it seems. Lock Pick is what a rogue is, thats their defining class feature. Sure they have a bunch of other skills like UMD and Sneak attack but what they are used for on this server IS opening locks. I understand that you want your charater to do everything but characters and classes have their roles. Rogues open locks

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dutchy

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #59 on: March 08, 2013, 06:43:24 PM »
Well then to solve the rings problem just like it was mentioned before slap the "Only useable by rogue" sticker on them bards are the only other class with UMD.

Again: Rogues aren't meant to be the only people capable of opening locks.
Rogues already have an advantage in Open Lock.
As for Knock, it is already nerfed. A level 3 table top wizard could use Knock to open a DC50 chest.

Not enough of an advantage it seems. Lock Pick is what a rogue is, thats their defining class feature. Sure they have a bunch of other skills like UMD and Sneak attack but what they are used for on this server IS opening locks. I understand that you want your charater to do everything but characters and classes have their roles. Rogues open locks

so they are not used to spot and remove traps?
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MadJKevlar

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #60 on: March 08, 2013, 06:44:14 PM »
Well then to solve the rings problem just like it was mentioned before slap the "Only useable by rogue" sticker on them bards are the only other class with UMD.

Again: Rogues aren't meant to be the only people capable of opening locks.
Rogues already have an advantage in Open Lock.
As for Knock, it is already nerfed. A level 3 table top wizard could use Knock to open a DC50 chest.

Not enough of an advantage it seems. Lock Pick is what a rogue is, thats their defining class feature. Sure they have a bunch of other skills like UMD and Sneak attack but what they are used for on this server IS opening locks. I understand that you want your charater to do everything but characters and classes have their roles. Rogues open locks

:P dont belive you

APorg

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2013, 06:48:13 PM »
I understand that you want your charater to do everything

This was a civil discussion until you started making snide remarks. Stop it with the ad hominems.

And there's plenty more that defines Rogues than Open Lock.
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Lucadia

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #62 on: March 08, 2013, 06:49:31 PM »
If they bringing you along only to open chests might be other issues at hand that
Has nothing to do with game balance.

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2013, 06:52:47 PM »
I understand that you want your charater to do everything

This was a civil discussion until you started making snide remarks. Stop it with the ad hominems.

And there's plenty more that defines Rogues than Open Lock.

Yeah, the beauty of rogues is the variety of roles they can fill.  Lock picker is one of many and hardly the defining skill.

Juice

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2013, 06:53:45 PM »
so they are not used to spot and remove traps?
Yeap Traps are their bread and butter too

:P dont belive you

When you think open lock what is the first class to come to mind.
Its basicly their class description, Traps, Sneak, Locks. Taking that away from them would take away a big chunk of their class description.

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Juice

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2013, 06:56:00 PM »
I understand that you want your charater to do everything

This was a civil discussion until you started making snide remarks. Stop it with the ad hominems.

And there's plenty more that defines Rogues than Open Lock.

It is a civil discussion but it seems that you dont like someone disagreeing with you and pointing out why.

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APorg

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2013, 07:00:10 PM »
It is a civil discussion but it seems that you dont like someone disagreeing with you and pointing out why.

You're not disagreeing with me. You are not refuting my points. You have been unable to.

Instead, you're singling me out and claiming I am wrong because "I want to do everything". This is attacking me, and not my argument. You don't know what I want. So stop pretending you do.
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2013, 07:06:51 PM »
Well then to solve the rings problem just like it was mentioned before slap the "Only useable by rogue" sticker on them bards are the only other class with UMD.

Again: Rogues aren't meant to be the only people capable of opening locks.
Rogues already have an advantage in Open Lock.
As for Knock, it is already nerfed. A level 3 table top wizard could use Knock to open a DC50 chest.

Not enough of an advantage it seems. Lock Pick is what a rogue is, thats their defining class feature. Sure they have a bunch of other skills like UMD and Sneak attack but what they are used for on this server IS opening locks. I understand that you want your charater to do everything but characters and classes have their roles. Rogues open locks

so they are not used to spot and remove traps?

Classes that get True-Seeing do spotting better, and it seems like anyone with a decent pool of hp does "remove traps".
: )




MadJKevlar

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2013, 07:08:26 PM »
What we really need is dungeons that are more demanding in terms of having professional rouges with you, and more RP over who is doing what in a party.... a interesting point was mentioned earlier about skill checks to even be able to acssess a lock, scripting skill checks into a puzzled dungeon to make rouge fundamental to the party is realy good idea and could be utilized through traps, puzzles, and locked obsticals, this is more realisticly the direction this topic should move in.

Additional notes:

similar puzzles could be installed for wizards, and i guess any other class.

Areas only acsessable on skill checks or character level checks could guard the way to levers or switches that deny access to certain areas for whole party.

Like more advance gauntlet style example of the anti Solo gate put into the morning lord crypt!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 07:40:02 PM by MadJKevlar »

dutchy

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2013, 07:09:12 PM »
thor be nice to the grey wizzy (and stop the underlying remarks even i see them)

grey wizzy play nice to and stop trowing intelectual english around to feel better  (you tend to do that when agrevated)

so both of you STOP take a breather no posting from either of you for hmmm 30 mins, wanna be pissy try me  :twisted:
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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #70 on: March 08, 2013, 07:14:03 PM »
So at all i see three options:

1, For opening anything you must be an X lvl rogue and reach the object DC.
2, Give those +5 open lock rings atleast a function that only useable by rogues (ppl still can wear it with UMD but would be nice if they couldnt )
3, Give serious nerf to those rings .. like 2-3 skill in open lock.. (but i think it would be better to make it useable by only rogues or the #1 option)

Also.. from the server i came a trap wont be removed just because it hits you it hits the one tries to open the stuff as long as its not removed (not by just touch it)

I hope one of these options could work : )

edit/ The First option would be the best and rogues would shine again ! (this is just my opinion)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 07:16:54 PM by -narwhal- »

Juice

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #71 on: March 08, 2013, 08:15:39 PM »
It is a civil discussion but it seems that you dont like someone disagreeing with you and pointing out why.

You're not disagreeing with me. You are not refuting my points. You have been unable to.

Instead, you're singling me out and claiming I am wrong because "I want to do everything". This is attacking me, and not my argument. You don't know what I want. So stop pretending you do.

That wasnt a fire torpedo's direct hit at you it was a generalization. Hell i wish my character could do everything and solo run around, which is half the reason i picked a rouge to play. but the real of it is this: its a party server and every class has its weakness and you need to party up so that you have all your bases covered when playing.

P.S I love you dutchy

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dutchy

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #72 on: March 08, 2013, 08:16:45 PM »
you both get a high 5  8)
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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #73 on: March 08, 2013, 08:54:35 PM »
5 pages? Yeesh :roll:

The ring won't be altered, it's just going in the 1% treasury so it will be extremely rare.

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Re: Rogues & Open lock
« Reply #74 on: March 08, 2013, 08:56:35 PM »
[Rhetra munches on her popcorn, watching the conversation, feeling bad she never took the OL skill now...]
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