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Author Topic: Zone-dependent roleplay XP  (Read 112552 times)

RigorMortis

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2013, 06:13:44 PM »
I don't roleplay for experience points. It's not part of my "Training Regime", I roleplay to create a story, hell, I wouldn't care if you took the RP exp system out completely. The rich "experience" is in the story you make, not the levels you gain. I've had a character be an excellent villain at only level 8 and I've seen people do even better than myself with even lower power and even lower levels.

Experience points are nice, now this is promoting diffusion and Outskirts being the most popular map (For very little IC reason). I mentor tons of people (Being the Vicar) and Mentoring is a reward in and of itself. If the lowbie gets experience points it's because he's becoming more experienced by the RP. You already know the information and you've experienced it in the past. You could argue that teaching is an experience, yet it is not enough to merit a chunk of experience points every time.

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2013, 06:17:40 PM »
I don't roleplay for experience points. It's not part of my "Training Regime", I roleplay to create a story, hell, I wouldn't care if you took the RP exp system out completely. The rich "experience" is in the story you make, not the levels you gain. I've had a character be an excellent villain at only level 8 and I've seen people do even better than myself with even lower power and even lower levels.

Experience points are nice, now this is promoting diffusion and Outskirts being the most popular map (For very little IC reason). I mentor tons of people (Being the Vicar) and Mentoring is a reward in and of itself. If the lowbie gets experience points it's because he's becoming more experienced by the RP. You already know the information and you've experienced it in the past. You could argue that teaching is an experience, yet it is not enough to merit a chunk of experience points every time.

Yeah, that is very much how I consider it from an IC perspective too.

RedwizardD

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2013, 06:19:38 PM »
Ah, but as you probably know, the dungeon XP has a soft cap instituted whereas the RP XP isn't capped in any way. Thus you can't make up for any lower gain of RP XP by dungeoning more instead, even if you wanted.

This sort of mentality is exactly what reinforces the problem.

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2013, 06:27:16 PM »
Ah, but as you probably know, the dungeon XP has a soft cap instituted whereas the RP XP isn't capped in any way. Thus you can't make up for any lower gain of RP XP by dungeoning more instead, even if you wanted.

This sort of mentality is exactly what reinforces the problem.

If you want me to address you concerns, at least have the courtesy to state your view clearly and not just give vague hints and insinuations. What "mentality"? Who's? And what "problem"? How does the one reinforce the other?

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #54 on: March 07, 2013, 06:31:37 PM »
Ah, but as you probably know, the dungeon XP has a soft cap instituted whereas the RP XP isn't capped in any way. Thus you can't make up for any lower gain of RP XP by dungeoning more instead, even if you wanted.

This sort of mentality is exactly what reinforces the problem.

If you want me to address you concerns, at least have the courtesy to state your view clearly and not just give vague hints and insinuations. What "mentality"? Who's? And what "problem"? How does the one reinforce the other?

I believe what he means to say is that people may feel that you're just further putting the squeeze on their ability to progress, and this is the problem, and your mentality of "dungeoning is capped anyway" doesn't solve the matter, and may just lead to disgruntled players, rather than any genuine fix.

I can only theorise though. I can't speak for him.
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Ramika

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2013, 06:40:15 PM »
I get it from an IC point. Gets everyone out of the Outskirts. I'd rather spend my time in Port. But, the problem is that it takes -forever- to get anywhere and if you're below, say, level 5, it's unsafe (and can stay that way depending on class). What I can see happening is that all the higher levels will (finally) drift out of the area and head off to places like Port. Which. Great. It's a beautiful area and makes way more sense to sit around. But. That leaves all the poor little newbies who log in and may or may not find a higher lever/older character to help them. If you have a little level 4 that wants the hell out of Vallaki, but all the characters capable of taking them are gone... They're stuck. And people don't always stick with new characters. It could create a tiny bit of a roleplay mess.

Now, I'm a tad wary but willing to go with it. But. Maybe to counterbalance this, we could consider adding in a "Vardo" in the Vallaki outskirts that takes you directly to Tser Pool. Or something similar. It kills a little bit of the time spent traveling on foot, but still requires money (and some people will still rather just make the trip for herbs/hunting/save money/whatever), and lets the lowbies/people who aren't good at traveling alone get out too. Could charge a little more for leaving from the Outskirts too. (250 like the ferry, for example.) Could also make the time spent 'traveling' in the Vardo a tiny bit longer. People are going to stay in the outskirts -anyway- due to laziness, gold, scenarios going on in the city, being a guard, etc. But with the new XP system, couldn't hurt to try and accommodate the 'big guys' GTFOing.

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Griswold

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2013, 06:41:09 PM »
I am in favor of not having Baronlord Von Deathhousen loiter in the outskirts with his low level friends and somehow grow in strength by having the same conversations every night. Hit up them dungeons. Or roleplay in some higher level areas.

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2013, 06:44:19 PM »
I think this is the only server that grants you roleplay experience and it was only a fairly recent addition over the last few years. Others don't or use the very elitist roleplay token system. What's being said is rp xp will be modified by player level traffic and the average level in an area over a set time. Perhaps posting an example from the area usage report to show how much traffic certain areas see and the level averages would help highlight what's trying to be put forward? The change is probably going to be very unnoticeable for the majority.

And for the record, Baronlord Von Deathousen needs a mini-series of his own.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 06:46:02 PM by Badelaire »

RedwizardD

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2013, 06:56:27 PM »
The problem I have observed in nearly all players I have interacted with for better or worse is one of a focus on efficiency.  One that gets ground to a razor's edge by the enviroment of low exp, soft capped, with items of little or no power to deal with creatures with a far better programing and power than the game was meant for. I understand completely that these are partially needed and alot of the AI and scripting changes are very cool. But they also encourage a strong focus on level since there is no reliable alternative to adjust to the difficulty. Even once a person is strong enough to be able to visit other locations of the server the drive to progress quickly and efficiently remains an imprinted part of the experience. The soft caps help to rate-limit the grind yes. But they do not fix the mental. It just means anyone who hasn't -hit- the softcapswill never keep up with those who reach it and then ease off for a time. The role-play helps combat that. The mentality that this can be stopped by a system change, a rate-limiting feature or reduces gains just drives the players harder into doing it.

Now the role-play exp system is one of the best features I've found on this server aside from the setting itself. It rewards interaction to begin in the first place in a tangible manner and helps ease off the training regimen mindset for grinding by ensuring people who 'take it easy' can still move forward. It can even be a wonderful surprise when you do level off role play, and at least in my personal experience makes those levels more rewarding.

Now. As I understand it the change is intended to discourage high levels hanging about protecting/trolling/whatever the outskirts. That is what struck me as a poor idea. I honestly suspect those who do such already are unconcerned with their leveling rate and are just looking for the highest number of players to talk to. No amount of xp nerfing is going to encourage them to leave. The danger of travel and the difficulty of leveling for lower levels also ensures that it will be the largest 'hub' zone to spend time in. In other areas however where populations are smaller and more static are where changes to the role-play exp are likely to be felt more prominently, and thus the impact rather misses the intended target in the first place.

edit:
I do wish to apologize for any disrespect in my earlier posts. That was certainly not the intention.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 07:04:09 PM by RedwizardD »

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2013, 06:57:03 PM »
I believe what he means to say is that people may feel that you're just further putting the squeeze on their ability to progress, and this is the problem, and your mentality of "dungeoning is capped anyway" doesn't solve the matter, and may just lead to disgruntled players, rather than any genuine fix.

I can only theorise though. I can't speak for him.

Assuming your interpretation is correct, what would a genuine fix then be? Dish out more XP to make people happy? I'm pretty sure quite many will feel that this would be a step backwards.

I think this is the only server that grants you roleplay experience and it was only a fairly recent addition over the last few years. Others don't or use the very elitist roleplay token system. What's being said is rp xp will be modified by player level traffic and the average level in an area over a set time. Perhaps posting an example from the area usage report to show how much traffic certain areas see and the level averages would help highlight what's trying to be put forward? The change is probably going to be very unnoticeable for the majority.

Yeah, I did already consider doing that. Here's some examples:

Barovia - Vallaki - Western Outskirts average 7.8

Barovia - Vallaki - Southern Forest - Degannwy average 10.2

Barovia - Midway Haven - Lower House - Ground Floor average 10.2

Barovia - Village of Barovia average 11.1

The Mists - Vistani Camp average 12.7

Dementlieu - Port--Lucine - Quartier Publique average 13.3

Dementlieu - Port--Lucine - Quartier Publique - Thtre de la Cathdrale average 11.0


Aside from that, getting a feel of the actual impact is what I propose as being the most constructive approach here. And I appreciate the large amount of sentiments stating they are willing to try this out. After having seen it in effect, we'd all be much more qualified to discussing it.

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2013, 06:59:26 PM »
You know if you remove this from the server it will never come back...I have seen many updates that say test it out bu tit never rolls back. I for one love the RP xp and it encourages good rp. If removed You might loose some people , because why RP when there is no reward. Humans are greedy and its in there nature...Just my two cents and there are to many games out there that already do a better dungeon then NWN. Remove or reduce RP ...I think your putting nail in the coffin so to speak...Just my opinion.


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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2013, 07:01:09 PM »
I'm looking forward to testing it out to be honest. I've played my fair share of outlanders, and have been suckered into an addiction of natives. For the first time, my native left barovia and has explored avenues of RP away from the Skirts. She's not high level, but not low either.

And don't forget, DMs reward RP Exp on occasion as well. A good tip, get involved in their plots and stories if you can (And it if makes sense) because that can lead to great rewards as well.

The way I see it, how do you know you don't like it if you haven't tried it. I didn't think I'd like Eggplant, I tried it.. I love it :D

Dread

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2013, 07:01:59 PM »
What I'm getting here, then, is that RP XP will be given to your character if he's in a place like Port, so long as they're not level 20, and so long as they're not level 17, they'll get XP in the Theatre. Just for example. Am I understanding this correctly? I am terrible at the maths.

Dread

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2013, 07:04:35 PM »
You know if you remove this from the server it will never come back...I have seen many updates that say test it out bu tit never rolls back. I for one love the RP xp and it encourages good rp. If removed You might loose some people , because why RP when there is no reward. Humans are greedy and its in there nature...Just my two cents and there are to many games out there that already do a better dungeon then NWN. Remove or reduce RP ...I think your putting nail in the coffin so to speak...Just my opinion.

I don't get this sort of mindset. Honestly, this is still an incredibly giving system. At one server I was at, you stopped gaining RP XP at level 6, and the rest you had to earn by going out and performing dungeons of some kind.

RedwizardD

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #64 on: March 07, 2013, 07:05:57 PM »
I believe what he means to say is that people may feel that you're just further putting the squeeze on their ability to progress, and this is the problem, and your mentality of "dungeoning is capped anyway" doesn't solve the matter, and may just lead to disgruntled players, rather than any genuine fix.

I can only theorise though. I can't speak for him.

Assuming your interpretation is correct, what would a genuine fix then be? Dish out more XP to make people happy? I'm pretty sure quite many will feel that this would be a step backwards.


Actually yes. That puts it more concisely. Also you are correct, more xp isn't likely the solution.. At least not combat exp.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 07:08:44 PM by RedwizardD »

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2013, 07:07:46 PM »
What I'm getting here, then, is that RP XP will be given to your character if he's in a place like Port, so long as they're not level 20, and so long as they're not level 17, they'll get XP in the Theatre. Just for example. Am I understanding this correctly? I am terrible at the maths.

Yeah, that's pretty accurate.

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2013, 07:08:30 PM »
What I'm getting here, then, is that RP XP will be given to your character if he's in a place like Port, so long as they're not level 20, and so long as they're not level 17, they'll get XP in the Theatre. Just for example. Am I understanding this correctly? I am terrible at the maths.

This system will, over an unknown period of time, keep a running tally of all PCs levels who enter the area, and take the average of all of them as the 'set level' to determine the distribution of RP XP.

If a level 6 and a level 12 walk into a bar, the average for RP XP distribution will be a 9.  If I follow this right, everyone up too 1.5x  that level will recieve full RP xp, so everyone up to about level 14 will still be getting full xp in this scenario.  If Soren includes these probable limits of over x 1.5 for half value, then everyone from levels 13.5+ (likely rounded up) would recieve half value for their RPing.   Everyone at a multiple of 2.0 up... levels 18 and up in this case... would recieve no xp for RP.  Though, adding a level 18+ in this case automatically changes the average.  Its that average thats going to matter.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 07:14:21 PM by Lockleed »

Avatar6666

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2013, 07:15:55 PM »
You know if you remove this from the server it will never come back...I have seen many updates that say test it out bu tit never rolls back. I for one love the RP xp and it encourages good RP. If removed You might loose some people , because why RP when there is no reward. Humans are greedy and its in there nature...Just my two cents and there are to many games out there that already do a better dungeon then NWN. Remove or reduce RP ...I think your putting nail in the coffin so to speak...Just my opinion.

I don't get this sort of mindset. Honestly, this is still an incredibly giving system. At one server I was at, you stopped gaining RP XP at level 6, and the rest you had to earn by going out and performing dungeons of some kind.

You been gone for a whole, dungeoning takes way to much coin to do , try it and I am sorry did  you not leave the server for a while over something similar? Just asking but try a level 12-15 dungeon and tell me how coin you make vs how much you spend. Not only that but with the new increase of spell like effect items and prices it is going to cost more....RP was free for who wanted to RP and now your taking that way from a fraction...it takes forever to get into a fraction now a day because no DMS are super busy and then you add the price of dungeoning and cost of spell like affects...people will not want to spend 20 hours of gather things so they can do a 4 hour dungeon. simple math...again just my opinion and what I have seen over time here.




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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2013, 07:17:28 PM »
The level-based, OOC "stuff to think about," just gives OOC reasons to exclude players from going into a dungeon.  Ever since the change where a level difference of 5 or more greatly affected dungeon XP, you get this culture of asking OOCly for the levels of others in your party, so you know that the next hour or two you're about to spend is not wasted entirely.

Odd, since viewing other players levels were blocked at login screen, to move focus away from levels, this type of system just makes everyone want to ask what level everyone else is so they can remain competitive.

Baron Deathousen is nice too, it's nice to know that players criticize each other like this.  Ultimately this penalizes faction oriented PCs more than it hurts Lord Deathousen.
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Dread

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2013, 07:23:00 PM »

You been gone for a whole, dungeoning takes way to much coin to do , try it and I am sorry did  you not leave the server for a while over something similar? Just asking but try a level 12-15 dungeon and tell me how coin you make vs how much you spend. Not only that but with the new increase of spell like effect items and prices it is going to cost more....RP was free for who wanted to RP and now your taking that way from a fraction...it takes forever to get into a fraction now a day because no DMS are super busy and then you add the price of dungeoning and cost of spell like affects...people will not want to spend 20 hours of gather things so they can do a 4 hour dungeon. simple math...again just my opinion and what I have seen over time here.


I got a breather from the server temporarily for other reasons, actually. Believe me, coin is pretty easy to come by; if you know which dungeons to hit or what bounties to chase down, you can make an absurd amount of money. Granted some dungeons are a lot more profitable than others.


Yeah, that's pretty accurate.


This system will, over an unknown period of time, keep a running tally of all PCs levels who enter the area, and take the average of all of them as the 'set level' to determine the distribution of RP XP.

If a level 6 and a level 12 walk into a bar, the average for RP XP distribution will be a 9.  If I follow this right, everyone up too 1.5x  that level will recieve full RP xp, so everyone up to about level 14 will still be getting full xp in this scenario.  If Soren includes these probable limits of over x 1.5 for half value, then everyone from levels 13.5+ (likely rounded up) would recieve half value for their RPing.   Everyone at a multiple of 2.0 up... levels 18 and up in this case... would recieve no xp for RP.  Though, adding a level 18+ in this case automatically changes the average.  Its that average thats going to matter.


All right, thanks you two. I suppose I don't have a problem with the system, but that's in part because I don't have very many high-level characters. Most reach about mid-level at most, before they get a one-way ticket to the Grey Realm.

Ercvadasz

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2013, 07:29:34 PM »
I am willing to try this one out.

I do not know if it reaches the dedicated objective, but we will see.

Also about the High levels and their RP: Keep in mind that many a times it can actually make someone be robbed from his chance of offering rp, opportunity and other things, so just as this change may hinder your high level character, it may offer other low level players to be given more chance to partake in things.
(I am actually hopeing this will allow again for dm-s to offer events for lower levels, without the fear that a high level character just comes and crashes it.)
//I could name you quite a number of players who have chars in between level 12-18 and keep most of them PARKED in the outskirts, and regularly logg between them. Most of the times to rp with even the few players, just with a different char.//
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 07:48:24 PM by Ercvadasz »
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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2013, 07:38:28 PM »
So...how are you going to ask OOC about an IC level since that person is not going to tell you if there high level? I mean your going to ask OOC if your above my level do not come?? Talk about breaking RP and immersion....


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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2013, 07:50:20 PM »
(This is something that actually came up very long ago, but I've suddenly came upon it recently and decided it was time to give it a go.)

By next update, I've updated the roleplay XP script so that it will not reward you XP if you are in a low level zone and are a high level character. To make this easy to manage, the system works by tapping into an already existing feature that tracks the average level of all who've entered an area. This new change will make it so that you will only get roleplay XP if no more than 1.5x the average level of entries in that area (though area average is always considered as being at least 5)

As you might have guessed, this is to encourage higher levels to hang out away from low level zones.

Enjoy! (and share your experiences below)

I like this.

This means people will hang out in other places and they won't be so barren. I mean it's a pretty big server right? there ain't no reason for certain parts to be so empty...

Not to mention it may encourage people to explore more parts of the server, and it kinda looks like it promotes more areas for people to go to... more caravan destinations etc...

Ercvadasz

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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2013, 08:01:41 PM »
So...how are you going to ask OOC about an IC level since that person is not going to tell you if there high level? I mean your going to ask OOC if your above my level do not come?? Talk about breaking RP and immersion....

I am sorry to say this, but i am not that kind of player.

I do not OOCly post out my level, and I usually ask players to NOT do so when i am around. I try to gather or join up a group IC, and either I get xp or I do not. It is the RP that matters, and the challenge.
Most of my characters are quite restricted due to certain facts most of the time.(Cannot enter certain dungeons, or cannot loot them, for various background reasons.)

I think I have asked you to keep it Ic as well, when once, earlier this week you did post out your level OOCly, whereas as a veteran you should have allready known that where the group was going was not meant for you.(For quite a while.) Whatever the spawn may have been.

And as a veteran player you should actually know quite well that most of the dungeons around Vallaki, untill the Ogre crossing is usually for max level 12 at best.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 08:06:55 PM by Ercvadasz »
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Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2013, 08:13:36 PM »
I understand the reasons for this new system but I have a feeling its not going to work the way its intended. My only hope for my high level to ever get to level cap was RP XP but now she'll only get that XP in zones that when I send her there are always deserted of other players. Heck I've pent an hour in the skirts emoting every few minutes only to discover that the other players that are present are AFK. Really do hate that. But that's a topic for another discussion.

I'm really not sure about this new system but from my little understanding of it my hope of actually getting one character to level cap is diminished even further. I mean I've been playing on this server on and off for three years and still have not reached level cap.  :shock:

All that said, never had funner times on any other server than this one so I guess I can live with it but sure is nice when you get that ding sound when your char levels. Just going to happen less often now. Guess I'll play the vanilla game to get my leveling ding kicks :P