Author Topic: Zone-dependent roleplay XP  (Read 125350 times)

Avatar6666

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1404
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #550 on: September 11, 2014, 04:26:49 PM »
So the problem's not the lack of factions? Higher level members of these factions could roleplay there if they wanted but choose to do it in Vallaki.

It is not that simple. For example, as a Toret of one of the Barovian Congregations, it wouldn't make much sense to run around in Dementlieu very often and/or without a very good reason. Technically, even being in Vallaki is not totally correct for some, since that collides with tending to the Shrine in the Village for Pure Hearts.

Indeed but it makes about as much sense for people from other congregations to be in Vallaki than anywhere else. Mind you, I understand that it's easier for people to congregate in only one place for roleplay purposes and to meet people. The problem with factions in other domains is not that they're not there but that people don't use them as much. There are plenty of opportunities for roleplay outside of Vallaki, unlike what some claim, it's just that it needs more effort from players to get them going and maintain them.

Besides the Vardo usually sale most items to level 10's or below. They seems to use Port for auctions of higher end merchandise. So why station people there when once in a while they have an auction and you can buy things this way. Lower levels are where the merchants go, because your searching for most of your items at lower levels.


“In brightest day, in blackest night,
No evil shall escape my sight
Let those who worship evil’s might,
Beware my power… Green Lantern’s light!”

BahamutZ3RO

  • Master of Many Alts
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2615
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #551 on: September 11, 2014, 04:28:02 PM »
So the problem's not the lack of factions? Higher level members of these factions could roleplay there if they wanted but choose to do it in Vallaki.

In fairness, during my most recent RVT stint we were discouraged from operating out of the offices in Port aside from the occasional event that led us out there. I would have loved to work out of the RVT's office in Port.
: )




Syl

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2592
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #552 on: September 11, 2014, 04:37:29 PM »
So the problem's not the lack of factions? Higher level members of these factions could roleplay there if they wanted but choose to do it in Vallaki.

In fairness, during my most recent RVT stint we were discouraged from operating out of the offices in Port aside from the occasional event that led us out there. I would have loved to work out of the RVT's office in Port.

Well that all explain why to see a vardo is like finging a +4 hide dagger... LOL you all can't work outside your offices... I miss the large sellings in valiki and else where.. (sorry side note)

Monica O'Sullivan: Master explorer
Tsubaki Yamamoto: Shadow Thief
Roesor Cryso: A slave for the Masters.
Sokol: An Unlikely Hero

jlove916

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #553 on: September 11, 2014, 07:33:06 PM »
I am sorry to stab this old wound.   Please forgive me.
Cyber bullets cause no pain.

Syl

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2592
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #554 on: September 11, 2014, 09:02:45 PM »
I am sorry to stab this old wound.   Please forgive me.

Na its no big deal LOL I just thought it was funny... I go through and reoppend a few cans myself. To include this one

Monica O'Sullivan: Master explorer
Tsubaki Yamamoto: Shadow Thief
Roesor Cryso: A slave for the Masters.
Sokol: An Unlikely Hero

Kendric98

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1681
  • Omnipotent Overlord of the Omniverse!
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #555 on: September 11, 2014, 11:29:39 PM »
37 pages though nice, i would like to reopen and old thread made by heritic about getting permed and signing it if your willing or something. Problem is i cant find it i think it was clensed.

Samson/Tatyanna Costella

Hlot

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #556 on: September 12, 2014, 07:32:10 AM »
If the cap is so huge then how about making it not-so-huge for those faction members? Like 50% of what was before level 9? Watch for example Vallaki Garda or Wachter Guards, do they have anything to do outside Barovia? ML faction? Unless those are planned to be for people who are below level 12.

Arael

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #557 on: September 12, 2014, 08:01:15 AM »
Of course it would be good for the Dev and DM to have more factions OUTSIDE of barovia. The problem is that most of the factions on the server are focused in Barovia and in Vallaki. Dementlieu should and could have plenty of factions, but nope the focus has been on vallaki. So there shouldn't be any lower xp for vallaki, due to the factions that are focused there(ie most of them)
Perhaps because near vallaki you are more likely to find people?

Ellana Twiggy

  • Guest
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #558 on: September 12, 2014, 10:51:07 AM »
But here is the thing most seem to not notice... this is only inside the city and the outskirts and restingplace and temple.....You go anywhere else outside of these like one of the near by caves or 2 trans south or 3-4 trans north....You get normal RP exp...there are many places out there where factions and other people can also meet other than just the city. maybe they say the next meeting spot is Oh i don't know.... in the camping spot just after the tombstones that lead to terg.

This is actually dependent on the level of players in the area i've noticed.  There are a huge chunk of areas around valliki where if you are a higher level and a lower (lvl 14-16 with lvl 2-8) where you will get no rp xp, or reduced. But if you are with some one of the same level the rp xp is normal.
I find it perfectly understandable though, what is a lvl 2 going to teach my lvl 16 about surviving in the mists? 

IDreamofDaleks

  • Guest
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #559 on: September 12, 2014, 11:03:12 AM »
. Personally? I'm going to RP wherever I feel makes the most sense and if everyone's going to do the same, then we've reached a point where this system is pretty pointless in what it's trying to accomplish.

...What is this system even trying to accomplish again?
Seriously I've seen this conversation circle around itself so many times that I'm getting confused.
If the point is to get higher levels out of "Hero-ing" Around the outskirts, but DMs have told us all on various occasions to "ignore" the XP thing and RP wherever it makes sense, just be mindful of your attitude towards new characters/players when you're higher level.

Then what's the point? Really?

If the point is just to slow down higher levels from leveling too fast, then that's fine, awesome and dandy. It should be that way, but don't hide it behind a pretense of "Well it's dependent on the place and if you want full RP XP you should hang around people your level" because that just starts this circle right back 'round again. Really, I'd rather you just lower the amount of XP higher levels can get from RP across the board just to stop this debate/argument/confusion.

Syl

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2592
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #560 on: September 12, 2014, 11:03:39 AM »
But here is the thing most seem to not notice... this is only inside the city and the outskirts and restingplace and temple.....You go anywhere else outside of these like one of the near by caves or 2 trans south or 3-4 trans north....You get normal RP exp...there are many places out there where factions and other people can also meet other than just the city. maybe they say the next meeting spot is Oh i don't know.... in the camping spot just after the tombstones that lead to terg.

This is actually dependent on the level of players in the area i've noticed.  There are a huge chunk of areas around valliki where if you are a higher level and a lower (lvl 14-16 with lvl 2-8) where you will get no rp xp, or reduced. But if you are with some one of the same level the rp xp is normal.
I find it perfectly understandable though, what is a lvl 2 going to teach my lvl 16 about surviving in the mists? 

True I have noticed that when i was doing some RP before in a abandoned house a few times with lower toons I wasn't getting exp but when i had someone else my level and it was only us I got exp... SO i think it some where in this page its mentioned the avrage level of the players combinded which would just confirm what you said Sudhri.

Monica O'Sullivan: Master explorer
Tsubaki Yamamoto: Shadow Thief
Roesor Cryso: A slave for the Masters.
Sokol: An Unlikely Hero

Syl

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2592
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #561 on: September 12, 2014, 11:08:13 AM »
I've never complained about the new script in outskirts. and I'm always friendly to the new people :P

But yeah this has cycled around many time some people are pro for it others are con. [shrugs] SOme people just complain about not getting exp. and as I have said before... Your only talking... the fact your getting exp for "Talking" SHould be seen as a blessing

Monica O'Sullivan: Master explorer
Tsubaki Yamamoto: Shadow Thief
Roesor Cryso: A slave for the Masters.
Sokol: An Unlikely Hero

Bato

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 679
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #562 on: September 12, 2014, 04:11:04 PM »
The fact your getting exp for "Talking" Should be seen as a blessing.

Yep.
While it's nice to be getting exp every now and then, but just RP wherever you want.
Vallaki is a City not a "Low Level Zone" and when you start seeing the server as zones for different levels it's not healthy for good RP.

DM Stygian Witch

  • Read books, not tablets!
  • Dungeon Masters
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 8169
  • I love Vecna more than the Morninglord!
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #563 on: September 12, 2014, 04:20:22 PM »
I habitually dump EXP on players when I see good role play, but sshhh.. Don't tell anyone!
You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.
C.S. Lewis.

Kendric98

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1681
  • Omnipotent Overlord of the Omniverse!
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #564 on: September 12, 2014, 07:34:54 PM »
All this debate could be ended by just removing rp xp entirely. Dms should just give it out if they spot rp they like.

Samson/Tatyanna Costella

RedwizardD

  • Scrollord
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1001
  • Avoid Attention - Critical Failure
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #565 on: September 12, 2014, 07:40:47 PM »
All this debate could be ended by just removing rp xp entirely. Dms should just give it out if they spot rp they like.

That would cause a lot of problems, especially for people who do not have the oppotunity or interest to go out and dungeon run. To say nothing of consuming even more of the DM team's time.

Gideon

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
  • Keepin' it native.
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #566 on: September 12, 2014, 07:53:16 PM »
All this debate could be ended by just removing rp xp entirely. Dms should just give it out if they spot rp they like.

All of my characters have leveled on RP XP, not dungeons. If I relied on dungeons my characters would all be level 5.

Little Lotte

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2824
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #567 on: September 12, 2014, 08:20:15 PM »
All this debate could be ended by just removing rp xp entirely. Dms should just give it out if they spot rp they like.

All of my characters have leveled on RP XP, not dungeons. If I relied on dungeons my characters would all be level 5.

Pretty much what Giddy said. I -very- rarely use dungeons for leveling as I'd rather let my story progress my character's talents. Rp xp for the win.

emptyanima

  • Making & Breaking Characters Since May 2013
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3785
  • She Who Slays Dragons
    • Emptyanima Portrait Pack
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #568 on: September 12, 2014, 08:35:49 PM »
All this debate could be ended by just removing rp xp entirely. Dms should just give it out if they spot rp they like.

All of my characters have leveled on RP XP, not dungeons. If I relied on dungeons my characters would all be level 5.

Pretty much what Giddy said. I -very- rarely use dungeons for leveling as I'd rather let my story progress my character's talents. Rp xp for the win.
Also, having a blanket RP-XP system means that those who play at times with low/no DM presence aren't penalised!

Kendric98

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1681
  • Omnipotent Overlord of the Omniverse!
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #569 on: September 12, 2014, 11:42:11 PM »
My bad i forgot that some people just do the rp thing.

Samson/Tatyanna Costella

MAB77

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 7234
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #570 on: September 13, 2014, 03:37:51 AM »
I habitually dump EXP on players when I see good role play, but sshhh.. Don't tell anyone!

BLASPHEMY!!! How dare you encourage sound roleplay on a roleplay server? This is too much, I quite right away for Diablo III, where I can squish monsters, get fat loot and quick XP at Will, without all that overated RP crap!!!!

Alright... now that I'm done with sarcasm. There is really nothing new I can add to the debate, I think everything has been said ad-nauseam already. My only wish is for players to keep spinning incredible stories, AND not to fear closing older chars to play something else. There will always be new character concepts to explores and new stories to tell for creative minds and thats what I like best on PotM. Those overrated XPs, levels and good gears will all follow naturally anyway.
Best Regards!
MAB

Dev. Relationist for the Dark Powers.
1 Old Svalich Stradă, Castle Ravenloft, Barovia

Soren / Zarathustra217

  • Lead Director, Patient Zero
  • Administrator
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 13019
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #571 on: September 14, 2014, 09:05:35 AM »
If the point is to get higher levels out of "Hero-ing" Around the outskirts, but DMs have told us all on various occasions to "ignore" the XP thing and RP wherever it makes sense, just be mindful of your attitude towards new characters/players when you're higher level.

Whatever DM said that has been speaking their own opinion then - at least it does not really convey the core sentiments.

But - given that it's the same arguments constantly re-emerging, at some point we should just make a single post explaining the reasoning behind this system. I don't have time to do that currently, but I'll link you to some past topics:

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=24287

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=24288.0

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=18624.msg217064#msg217064

I'll also allow myself to highlight a post I made in this topic, addressing your specific concern/point:

(about the mindful high-levels in the western outskirts)

It's great that some of you high levels have the courtesy to not dominate things when you hang out in the low level zone, but even if you let the less powerful do the fighting, the presence alone is a tremendous blow to the intensity of a situation. I'm sure just about any DM and MPC can attest to that - if people know they have the high level backup ready, most start acting entirely different, become next to fearless, confront every threat openly, etc.. The entire situation instantly feels different.

We aren't looking to stigmatize high levels though - just limiting the progression they can do in a low level zone. If people want to play native Barovians that never leave western Barovia, that option remains entirely possible but just means you would stall XP wise at level 11-12, probably hitting a standstill at 15. In honesty, for a native Barovian that never travel out to see the world, I'd say it's much more sensible that they wouldn't ever get any higher level than that.

Making it so isn't a punishment or a discouragement of rolepaly, and arguing that it is is blatant insistence on ignorance. We are just making it a slightly more natural and sensible, while possibly improving the sense of danger for lower levels.



IDreamofDaleks

  • Guest
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #572 on: September 14, 2014, 09:59:13 AM »
First, I want to thank you for taking the time out to respond, and say that genuinely and generally, I do love how you've brought this setting to life. I've never played in a horror setting before, and I'm loving it more than any server I've played on thusly , when it acts as the setting demands.

But  I guess then the question is where are these higher levels supposed to go?
We've already had a whole debate on how the Mist Camp ruins the horror setting for a lot of people who prefer the fears of Barovia, and Dementlieu is

A) Near empty a lot of the time especially recently
and
B) Not for everyone; not everyone wants to do the political thing, a lot of people -like- the natural horror and fear of the night  that Barovia offers


That said, I almost wish the whole server was capped at 12-15 just so that everyone could participate in all of the horror that the server had to offer without feeling like it was a stigma of 'ruining it' for the lower levels when we even try to be there, fighting or not, to use the implication behind your words.


Advice?

Arael

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #573 on: September 14, 2014, 10:18:21 AM »
That said, I almost wish the whole server was capped at 12-15 just so that everyone could participate in all of the horror that the server had to offer without feeling like it was a stigma of 'ruining it' for the lower levels when we even try to be there, fighting or not, to use the implication behind your words.

Advice?
This reminds me the NCW, everybody low level, everybody not well geared, everybody gathered around the same meeting point (vallaki), hight sense of danger from everything and everyone, just to see the bodies gathered inside the church or the fresh grave behind it gave you the horror feeling.

Even just a Dire Worg getting close to the sanctuary was scary then.

Legion XXI

  • Fraternity of Shadows
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1724
  • Domn Clancy
Re: Zone-dependent roleplay XP
« Reply #574 on: September 14, 2014, 10:45:56 AM »
But  I guess then the question is where are these higher levels supposed to go?

The XP penalty (If I'm remembering correctly) doesn't apply to the Village of Barovia, and if it does, the average level there is always so high that I've never run into it out there on my higher level PCs.  That's a way you can stay in Barovia, and still keep from tangling too much with the areas/events designed for the new blood.

Dementlieu is
A) Near empty a lot of the time especially recently
and
B) Not for everyone; not everyone wants to do the political thing, a lot of people -like- the natural horror and fear of the night  that Barovia offers

People get this strange misconception that Dementlieu is just 100% hands-off political landscape and no real action to speak of.  As far as the lore goes for Port-a-Lucine, it's got a thriving underworld and PLENTY of opportunities for RP outside of the typical house struggle/politics you see.  Also, nothing says "Fear of the Night" like greataxe-wielding Caliban Gangleaders walking down the same streets that the Gendarme patrol during the daytime.  That place takes on a whole different feel once the sun goes down.  But if the city isn't your thing, there's still the town of Edrigan nearby, outfitted with it's own dangers, and a much more rural feel.



As for things being empty, that's definitely going to happen.  People tend to flock to where DMs are running events, or where other player groups are doing cool things.  If you want to bring life to an area it's entirely possible, but you have to accept that at first things are going to be slow.  You'll be bored and might spend a lot of time on your own, but things WILL improve if you just stick with it and never hold back on the creativity.  (Maybe do things on the forums to promote the area, like posting cool screenshots or writing compelling Bio entries about the goings-on of the area) When you come across someone, try to make every encounter something that people will look back on and go "Hey, I really liked that.  I think I'll go out there more often and try to find that person again".   It will also help your morale (and sanity) if you grab a few friends and drag them along on your bold new journey.  Nothing makes suffering easier than suffering with a few of your friends.

As far as level caps, that's never going to change.  It's another thing that's been hashed out 100 times, and it's just not going anywhere.  Besides, if you lower the cap to 15, then 15 will be the new stigma.  If you lower it to 10, then all the level 5's are going to be muscled out.  Don't get too caught up in the numbers themselves, but rather the unfairness of a few people being much more powerful than others in a given area and not having the respect for fellow players/DMs to bow out and allow the newer players a chance to shine.  And while you may think "But I don't do that!", just keep in mind that these things are put in place because it's been observed for years that MOST of the higher levels in that area tend to disrupt things.  Not all, but most.

If there's one thing I can say about the team, it's that they are very methodical in how they research for changes like this.  If you go back in the thread, you'll see that Soren really did his homework and ran the numbers before implementing this change, and after looking at the data for yourself you have to agree that there was a problem.  Nobody is trying to ruin anyone's good time, it's just that there was a problem, and sometimes the solution can't be something easy that everyone agrees with.  Still, it was needed, and I've seen a large positive change since it was implemented.  Besides, there's nothing saying you CAN'T go into Vallaki as a higher level.  It's just that you shouldn't expect to get XP for being in a place that presents little to no challenge for your skills.