Zone-dependent roleplay XP

[Blight]

Lol. How does that benefit him? Angker doesn't even go to the outskirts.  And even if he DID go to Vallaki, which I AVOID because I think outskirts roleplay is utter shit, how does this "system" not benefit other players? You want to roleplay in a certain area, plan for it. Vallaki? Make a barovian. There's nothing unfair or special about it.

And for the record? I'm actually completely fine with the system Lucadia. I actually made a thread requesting just this a few months back that got a lot of attention. I ASKED for this system.

The only reason I'm suggesting other options is because you and players like you are unhappy with the idea. I already have exactly what I want. I'm just brainstorming hoping to make a compromise you can live with.

[Mcskinns]

your idea of what levels you expect in certain areas you have listed on page 4 of this thread..harms certain classes that be trying get rp xp also that wouldn't ever go to a large city like Port a Lucine just to get their exp. So much for Druids, Rangers and Barbarians. Or races thats not fond of the city either. leaves them with Mist camp only.

As for pc diffusion..only makes sense players will migrate to where the most rp can be found. New hub becomes Mist camp..nothing changed other then the location and the npcs there that prevent silly antics from happening.

This is a fairly narrow minded viewpoint.  Take your high level druid and gather some others and establish a place out in the wilds for some good druidic RP.  The argument that your losing out on rp xp because you take a few lowbies to your flock is nearsighted.  What your doing is creating your story, affecting the story of these other PC's and enriching the server as a whole for the effort.  In time these lower levels will become mid-level and this average level for your 'base' will increase and you will start to gain some xp from the rp.  It might not be an immediate reward, but the interaction and collective story that forms around it will pay off in the end via more interactions.  Invite some other high level PC's to interact if/when it is an IC thing to do.  

I played on a RP server, one with perma-death.  One where players took in excess of a year to reach max level (I believe it was level 6), and the 'RP rewards system" they used was one in which faction leaders were given XP cookies to dish out to members of their faction or anyone else they deemed worthy of such.  All to often these were used by the faction leader themselves to boost their rp gain tro stay ahead of the competition.  Or given to a select group of  IC confidants.  The system in place here at PotM is much more fair across the board.  It rewards for something that most servers I have played do not even consider.  Feeling cheated because your not getting xp (for what should only be a portion of your overall RP), when you could not be rewarded at all seems a bit selfish.  I don't mean this as an insult, simply that we take a lot of things for granted that have been given by the team.  Trust they will not set the server on a course that will ultimately end it, for they do care as much for the setting/server/enjoyment of everyone as much as you or I, and have to strike out to find a balance in what they feel is fitting and balanced.  We do not always see the benefit of such, but we do not have all the pieces of the puzzle revealed to be able to understand it either.

With that said, folks have stated their opinions, for or against.  I challenge people to seek ideas to improve on it... already the system has undergone a change from no RPxP over the 1.5 average to half from 1.5 - 2.  

Offer something other than a stomping of your foot and a demand that its unjust.  Be constructive and not destructive in your approach, the team will be more understanding if you can present something in terms of balance rather than in terms of 'this screws me'.

Game on folks

[MadJKevlar]

sure, low level gets rp xp, but the high level dont for mentoring. Its a double wammie for any high level, they dont get exp unless they bring said student to..a dungeon . Funny thing if you bring somebody thats too low to a high level area and they dont get exp either.

Actually would not be so bad if the presence of High level toons gave small increases to low levels RP XP for being present.

[Lucadia]

Take your high level druid and gather some others and establish a place out in the wilds for some good druidic RP.  The argument that your losing out on rp xp because you take a few lowbies to your flock is nearsighted.

not nearsighted, its smacking a high level with a stick for simply existing . the rp makes sense for the characters to be around each other, but your being penalized, regardless of what area your in and no mater where you take them.

and honestly I dont give one care about outskirts rp, but I do care about meaningful rp thats suddenly became you cant have same benefits as everyone else. its a punishment for anyone between lv 12-19.

[Elfric]

My question is... How much exp is in exp RP for high levels? Miniscule amount as I understand and have seen compared to low levels. You're all crying over spilled milk, this doesn't hurt people that dungeon like mad in Har'Akir or the like even if you're a mentor to someone. Let them level and learn, bring them to empty and decently leveled lands to teach them. Keeping yourself to one domain for casual role play seems a tad boring when there's so much flavor to soak in that doesn't involve bashing a hostile spawn's brains out. Calm down and realize while RP EXP is a nice thing, you've been playing for years without it on other vault servers. Thieves start small with begging or slide of the hand, then move onto cut purses, robbing low security houses or wagons on the road, move up to big nobleman's houses, and all before they plan to ocean 11 a bank. So too can being a mentor or being a member of a canon faction. Every faction has a secondary town/village they can go to that reasonably mid/high level, say for the Garda. All the devs need to do is add in a proper faction area for them to stay and store stuff.

[Blight]

Lucadia, it takes at most a month to get to 12 level if you wanted to. If you were to "mentor" sombody for long enough, it wouldnt be too long until they were a high enough level that their presence wouldnt affect your xp gain. That being said? You can still spend time with lowbies. You can still "mentor" them. Your reward? You can feel good about yourself, that you helped promote the server. Do you feel you actually need an experience incentive to play nice with lowbies? It's supposed to be a selfless act, Lucadia. You do it for the benefit of the server, not because you're being paid experience to do it.

Your level modifies the rp xp level of the area. You level up those pupils, the level increases. You do it more and more, and not only do you have a considerable following but you also have increased the rp xp average level of the areas your flock likes to go because they are all higher level now.

Lucadia, consider it a responsibility. If you want rp xp in areas like degannwy, well... you now have to earn it by fostering roleplay with low-level characters. Now that you are "high level" you have in your power to "grow" areas. You get your base of players in Degannwy and spend time growing the xp level by mentoring lowbies well now you all have done something that makes Degannwy special to you. So much character growth has happened there and you have promoted so much roleplay that you have enhanced the area to a degree that you now recieve a reward in roleplay xp for being there, courtesy of Soren.

As a high level character you've now been given an opportunity to give something back and eventually even get something back too. Sure, you don't get the same xp rewards as lowbies. But what does that matter? Lucadia, you're already high level. Level progression is supposed to slow down. Now it's time to stop worrying about xp, let it come when it does, but focus on the roleplay and not little numbers adding to your overall mechanical growth that doesn't even need it anymore.

That's how you should see it, in my opinion.

[Avatar6666]

Lucadia, it takes at most a month to get to 12 level if you wanted to. If you were to "mentor" sombody for long enough, it wouldnt be too long until they were a high enough level that their presence wouldnt affect your xp gain. That being said? You can still spend time with lowbies. You can still "mentor" them. Your reward? You can feel good about yourself, that you helped promote the server. Do you feel you actually need an experience incentive to play nice with lowbies? It's supposed to be a selfless act, Lucadia. You do it for the benefit of the server, not because you're being paid experience to do it.

Your level modifies the rp xp level of the area. You level up those pupils, the level increases. You do it more and more, and not only do you have a considerable following but you also have increased the rp xp average level of the areas your flock likes to go because they are all higher level now.

Lucadia, consider it a responsibility. If you want rp xp in areas like degannwy, well... you now have to earn it by fostering roleplay with low-level characters. Now that you are "high level" you have in your power to "grow" areas. You get your base of players in Degannwy and spend time growing the xp level by mentoring lowbies well now you all have done something that makes Degannwy special to you. So much character growth has happened there and you have promoted so much roleplay that you have enhanced the area to a degree that you now recieve a reward in roleplay xp for being there, courtesy of Soren.

As a high level character you've now been given an opportunity to give something back and eventually even get something back too. Sure, you don't get the same xp rewards as lowbies. But what does that matter? Lucadia, you're already high level. Level progression is supposed to slow down. Now it's time to stop worrying about xp, let it come when it does, but focus on the roleplay and not little numbers adding to your overall mechanical growth that doesn't even need it anymore.

That's how you should see it, in my opinion.

By the way by the time you hit level 12 you will get no rp xp in barovia...Just did it with my druid and None at all...Even on Gakis...I know i am not the only one having this isuse but come on on Gakis, who is there???

[Kaspar]

As a player with a character that is actually forced to be around Vallaki because he sells stuff to new characters- I don't mind the change at all. I like its purpose. 

[Fierna]

Natives are in Ghakis. Like I had mentioned before, some of us are trying to bring life to new areas, we're low level natives that chose to go to Ghakis/Krofburg.

[Lucadia]

Im nice to the lowbies anyways, that dont change that fact. Im not seeing this as being fair, level progression at high level is -already- slow, and rp xp -has- been the only option of progressing. Your not really understanding, if the rp is the only reward, then we should remove rp xp from low levels also, as that should be reward also. Your -slapping- high levels for just existing , no mater where they are

if your mentoring somebody, sure they might get lv 12..if they was dungeonng in a month..funny thing is, even lv 12 pcs are not enough to allow a lv 19 to gain exp through rp. Your forcing the high levels to only interact with a certain bunch then if they want to progress. theres no punishiments for anyone under lv 12, but once your 12, its like the game just changed for you.

Its not enhancing my experience, i rather role play then dungeon to get my exp, but if you really want i can just clear out harakir every night for xp that is -less- then the amount I would earned from rping.

and no, iv not played on other rp servers

[DM Stygian Witch]

Natives are in Ghakis. Like I had mentioned before, some of us are trying to bring life to new areas, we're low level natives that chose to go to Ghakis/Krofburg.

I have run several plots and independent scenes in and around Krofburg. I would love to have some players deeply immersed in native barovian role play.

[PsychedelicShroom]

You guys surely know to whip up drama

I don't think you've actually considered the numbers. It is in fact quite lenient.

In far the most, if not all areas outside Barovia, the average level is above 12, meaning even level 19 will get RP XP there.

In the Western Outskrits the average has lately been around 7-8 meaning that only people above level 12 would not gain XP there.

And then, yes, we can adjust the numbers as we go. I did consider simply making it gradually reduce XP, but there can be certain technical aspects that'll complicate this.

 

[YouLitABonfire]

Natives are in Ghakis. Like I had mentioned before, some of us are trying to bring life to new areas, we're low level natives that chose to go to Ghakis/Krofburg.

I have run several plots and independent scenes in and around Krofburg. I would love to have some players deeply immersed in native barovian role play.

Kroftburg is that new hawtness. and yes. Natives rules.

[Lucadia]

In far the most, if not all areas outside Barovia, the average level is above 12, meaning even level 19 will get RP XP there.

no 19 does not get exp..or highly reduced, thats 7 levels, not 5 difference. even if its 12. 1 rounded up to 13, thats only till lv 18. and the more pcs that get added to the group, the worse the average gets.

[Bad_Bud]

This post is long.  Brace yourself.

Why is this topic so long?

This isn't causing such an uproar because there's an actual impact, it's causing an uproar because being high level is becoming more and more taboo.  High level characters are second-class citizens.  High level characters are X-Men.

Here's a brief history of snippets, administration frowning at high level characters:

As DMs and Developers we often try to generate fear and terror by posing threats to those that dare venture out in to the night. For example, this could be the creatures of the night that sometimes roam the Western Outskirts. Some characters, however, have become so powerful that they can take down these foes rather trivially, and as a result, starts to hang out in the line of threat at night. It's unsure if they do it to protect, prove their strength or simply because they can - but the impact is the same. Under the wing of these powerful characters, more and more join, and soon, the night is more or less the same as the day.

This might seem fairly logical from a purely IC perspective. The characters have nothing really to fear (except when we pull something really strong in) - however, from a roleplay point of view, the consequence is that something is lost. Something rather essential to the experience of gothic horror. Remember, that you create the world. Even if you have legitimate reason to act as you do, it is not a necessity. Your character could easily be the world savvy that knows that eventually, all boldness is punished in these lands, and stay indoors. Your character could hang out somewhere else, where there's not so crowded.

It's all up to you. But consider the impact.

It has always been the aim when designing Ravenloft POTM that it should serve as the ideal stage for roleplay. Whenever possible, we aim to design the world in ways that inspires and encourages roleplay without putting rigid confines on it or dictating it. Roleplay is about creativity, and creativity thrives best with a good amount of freedom.

Freedom however entails responsibility. We don't want to enforce exactly how you should tell your stories, but this means that the quality of the roleplay here will be as good as you players in common make it. We try to provide the ideal terms for it, but it is up to you to set the bar and make this place into a meeting point of amazing roleplay.

Lately, it could seem that many players are acting as if oblivious to this fact - even our most veteran players. The unifying theme of the roleplay here is gothic horror, but if we want to have some creative freedom in how we approach this, we all need to take responsibility toward not ruining it. To hone it instead.

• Let your character be moved by the world and other players. Choose and play out weaknesses of your characters. Invincible superheroes (or -villains) don't work well in gothic horror.

• Don't clear dungeons or hang around in low level zones with your high level character. Even the Western Outskirts should be avoided. The danger of a situation is set by the strongest presence on each side.

There's also this topic, various faction changes, et cetera.  I think the point is clear.

Who's complaining about who?

Most of the above quotes are a result of players complaining about high levels ruining the experience in low level zones.  What's not said is who the complaints are about.  Complaints are geared toward the high level characters that caused the bad experience, only a handful of characters, I assume.  When the hammer drops on all high level characters, things get dicey.  No one's complaining about their own high level characters or the high level characters their friends play.

Why is Vallaki the hub?

But why is Vallaki the hub?  Mathematically speaking, it's not possible for any other area to have the potential for interaction that Vallaki has.

Mid-High level characters are a subset of all characters.  Mid-high level characters are the only characters often capable of reaching higher level zones.  Since the set of characters that can interact in Vallaki is the set of all characters, there will always be more potential in Vallaki, and more people will look for interaction in Vallaki.

It would be an interesting experiment to close off the most popular areas of the server for a week and find where people congregate.  It would almost certainly be the next easiest and accessible location all players can reach.

Solutions

Ways for getting characters to explore the far reaches require reduction in the barrier of entry, much like the reduction in barrier of entry for this server has resulted in more players joining.  If more characters can reach an area easily, more players will tend to try.  One way of achieving this would be creating options for characters to move from place to place more quickly.

There are two types of travel:

[1] Moving from one place to another in order to find interaction

[2] Moving from one place to another while interacting

In [1], we're referring to the ferry boat, the mist wagon.  Any shortcut.

In [2], we're referring to characters that, when in groups, tend to take the scenic route and roleplay their journey on foot.

I don't think increasing the travel capabilities of [1] do anything to harm [2].  I'd be interested in seeing the numbers, too.  The average level of players in Vallaki during winter, and the average level of players in Vallaki when travel is more available.

Courtesy goes both ways

There's nothing wrong with asking a high level character to leave an area.  This goes for low levels and DM's alike.  I've been asked before, and I left!  And I think other players would too.  If you have to have a low level zone, try sending a tell. (Those that switch to higher level characters as soon as something comes to the outskirts is a different topic altogether, and none of our solutions address this or probably ever will).

What are our current solutions like?

Our current solutions attempt to address symptoms, not causes.  I haven't seen anyone take the time to investigate why players hang out where they do in the first place, and what motivates players to explore other areas.  Maybe this post can be the start of that discussion.

[Lockleed]

I've been asked by lower level players to evacuate low level areas so they could antagonize without the threat of getting instantly smeared.  And I left!  And I think other players would too.  

Thats funny.  I had a level 8 MPC ghoul whom was chased down over 8 areas, starting at the outskirts, with minimal RP and no aggression against the one who killed him; who was either a 19th or a 20th level PC.  Wound up permakilled a few areas away from the drain.  I beg to differ about the behavior of some high level players.

[BahamutZ3RO]

You know what would make for a really fun NCW? Redesigning the whole server for high-level play. You'd have low level dungeons, of course, but if the spawns at night were threatening to a level 15? Hmm...

[ThePwush]

Any solution, on anything, will always have at least 1 out of the group that will do the opposite of what is intended.  That's just a fact.  The secret is learning how to deal with that, I guess.  Just an observation. 

[Bad_Bud]

I've been asked by lower level players to evacuate low level areas so they could antagonize without the threat of getting instantly smeared.  And I left!  And I think other players would too.  

Thats funny.  I had a level 8 MPC ghoul whom was chased down over 8 areas, starting at the outskirts, with minimal RP and no aggression against the one who killed him; who was either a 19th or a 20th level PC.  Wound up permakilled a few areas away from the drain.  I beg to differ about the behavior of some high level players.

And that's your own personal bad experience with one person.  Does this mean everything is ruined when Haustfer treks through the outskirts?

(Those that switch to higher level characters as soon as something comes to the outskirts is a different topic altogether, and none of our solutions address this or probably ever will).

[Lockleed]

Perhaps we should do a poll of who has seen Haustfer trek through the outskirts in the past year, Bad_Bud.  We could do another in regards to Sedrik.

[Bad_Bud]

Perhaps we should do a poll of who has seen Haustfer trek through the outskirts in the past year, Bad_Bud.  We could do another in regards to Sedrik.

I don't get it, Lockleed.  I know you don't like me, but I'm ultimately arguing for the same thing you're arguing for.  Trying for me personally isn't doing yourself any favors.

[Lockleed]

Incorrect.  My arguement, as stated earlier, is that this is changing the system from impacting everyone universally, to putting a value on who is RPing where.  Admittedly it is targetting a specfic group, and the actual attempted goal is quite reasonable, but I do not like the idea of system-wise saying that one persons RP is not as valuable as anothers.

That was my arguement, way back.  I've merely monitored this thread since.

[Geiger]

This thread sucks. Someone lock it. PLS.

It has just turned into like 8 pages of DURRRRRRR.

I don't agree with the change because I don't think that's how we'll solve the problem. But I'm not going to waste my time crying and being catty. Maybe I shouldn't have even said anything, but jeez you guys are being lame. Those people who this doesn't apply to, I recommend you do the following while you still have a soul.

Spoiler: show

[Telkar]

This thread sucks. Someone lock it. PLS.

...don't read it maybe?

I like looking over people's opinions on this. It's a notable change. No stance from me on the solution yet though, but I'm for the end it's trying to meet. Never much liked the mixture of different levels. Makes it hard for DMs to choose an appropriate challenges for one.

[Ercvadasz]

Perhaps we should do a poll of who has seen Haustfer trek through the outskirts in the past year, Bad_Bud.  We could do another in regards to Sedrik.

I don't get it, Lockleed.  I know you don't like me, but I'm ultimately arguing for the same thing you're arguing for.  Trying for me personally isn't doing yourself any favors.

Actually, I do not wish to take sides, but it was you who made it personal at the first, by nameing his high level character, and bringing it in the context.
And i am sorry to say but thereafter saying this:
"Trying for me personally isn't doing yourself any favors."
Is a bit controversial, and undermines your own statements and credibility. And also does not help the topic, since you voiced the Dev-s teams reasons and ideas and why-s quite well.

I read through your whole post about the system change, the why you were forced(?) to implement it.
It was quite a well written and carefully thought through reply. It answered quite a number of things i had in mind and was about to ask.
Actually ,I think it was one of the posts with which THIS thread should have started with, in which case it most likely would have avoided a lot of the drama that has happened in the previous pages.