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Author Topic: A thought on familiar/summon death  (Read 2870 times)

Honoun

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Re: A thought on familiar/summon death
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2013, 10:12:26 PM »
It possible to time the summoning skill to once every two hours which is roughly equal to a single game day? This would bring it into line with the PnP rules would it not? Or is the skill hard coded into the game engine?

Bluebomber4evr

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Re: A thought on familiar/summon death
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2013, 02:09:00 PM »
It possible to time the summoning skill to once every two hours which is roughly equal to a single game day? This would bring it into line with the PnP rules would it not? Or is the skill hard coded into the game engine?
There's no such thing as a summoning skill. :? But what you're suggesting is very, very far from PnP rules.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars

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If the familiar dies or is dismissed by the sorcerer, the sorcerer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude saving throw. Failure means he loses 200 experience points per sorcerer level; success reduces the loss to one-half that amount. However, a sorcererís experience point total can never go below 0 as the result of a familiarís demise or dismissal. A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs.

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Honoun

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Re: A thought on familiar/summon death
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2013, 12:48:17 AM »
Well keep in mind I've never played a 3rd Ed PnP game so yeah... But when I said skill I meant that redial menu button that you can quick slot to summon an animal companion. Or does that fall under the same ruling as for wizard/sorcerer summoning as well? I was more thinking as per Ranger and Druid animal companions actually ;)

giuvic

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Re: A thought on familiar/summon death
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2013, 11:31:54 AM »
well... I think the main issue with this topic is that the server is centered around other things and has been giving little attention to the familiars, summons and companions. the whole system of them is close to useless (sometimes even for RP, as your avatar of death from death domains has ridiculous stats and lasts only a few moments, making it horrible for RP).

  • their AI is all messed up
  • they don't follow as they should
  • they don't always answer your commands as they should
  • they put YOU in risk
  • you don't have extra tools to control where they go and when (they're not meatshields, so they should know when to abandon the battle field or when to enter it)
  • you cannot tame animals as a druid
  • you cannot proceed with rituals for summoning a new familiar (maybe even a different familiar) as a sorc/wiz (maybe with some xp price and need of reagents)

in sum, or you are going to lose your summoned creature due to mechanics or due to stats... or even worse: you'll expect your creature to stand and drag the attention of your enemy and instead it will stay and watch you being murdered (please, add some emotes of it laughing when they do that, at least our death would be meaningful).

I recently had a look into Ravenloft's books searching for summons reactions and I am aware that they are way harder to control in this setting. Although, so far it seems that we have more a mechanical salad than a setting customization.

I remember of two things from other servers that could help us into making it more worthwhile to deal with the summoned creatures:

  • a tool for controlling where your summon goes (EFU). You click on it and you click on where it should go. It would not stop it from auto following you, but if needed, you can ask it to attack a specific target or to stay on a specific spot.

  • for druids and rangers, they could tame creatures accordingly to their animal empathy and other stats (COA). They'd be able to keep an new and more powerful animal under their control if they were successful in a roll. If I remember it right, this used to be one of the most interesting things there, as most of the times you needed a party to keep you protected from the rage of the animal or group of animals that were around and it could turn really, really bad if you failed the roll check. I think these difficulties add enough compensation for when you decide to change your animal companion or if your former dies. And if it is not enough... give it a xp penalty everytime you fail it, as it'd be quite stressful for the druid/ranger to be rejected.

And last but not least, I came out with an idea for the wizards and sorcs around: rituals of summoning. Based on concentration, spellcraft, cha/int modifier, and GSF Conjuration existence (if not, it'd be harder), the mage would roll to try and summon a creature from other planes (or even from inside the Mists), depending of the alignment of the creature (opposite alignment would be harder, more powerful creatures, even harder). Of course, some components would be needed to proceed with it. The thing is: to summon the creature is one thing, to keep it under your control, you'd need to make another roll. If unsuccessful, the creature would turn against you (much like as suggested in the books that explain summons in Raveloft). So, depending on your level and skills, it'd be possible to summon, but not to keep it under control.

... of course, you could use the regular procedure of asking a priest to bring your fallen familiar back to life as well.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 11:42:34 AM by giuvic »
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Time_Stomped

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Re: A thought on familiar/summon death
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2013, 11:00:27 AM »
What if we don't do a reset for a week?

After 48 hours, the server crashes two or three times a day until people bitch and moan for a reset...

Just remember it's not a server crash until I have at least 4+ pages of ore mined up to get wiped out.
Istavan Donner

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Re: A thought on familiar/summon death
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2013, 02:43:26 PM »
Just a crazy thought. Are there any non-staff that are actually in support of the current Familiar/Companion death system?

Partially....I am fine with a consequence so that people don't treat their familiars as disposable.  I like the idea that familiars are actually bonded to the player and that the loss hurts.  But making it hurt as much as a PC death is all out of proportion, since familiars are under AI unless possessed and the AI will do crazy stuff.

Many if not most of the familiars available, including custom familiars specific to this server, are geared toward combat.  I do think they should be useful, or at least viable.  This is 10x the case for druids and rangers, whose animal companions are a major part of their RP and also effectiveness. 

I propose a middle ground:

1.   Reduce the cost to something more affordable, where the loss hurts but it is still worthwhile to deploy the familiar.  I can't speak for anyone else but I would say 30 gold per level would make you take your familiar's death seriously, but also not afraid to use it.

2.  Allow the player to raise their own familiar.  Having Lizuca raise an imp, an obvious fiend from the hells, is really odd.  Plus there are PCs who are outcasts who might not want to go into the ML church.  It makes sense to me that a PC, having summoned their own familiar in the first place, would be able to call its spirit back from the beyond.

Sidhel

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Re: A thought on familiar/summon death
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2013, 04:03:20 PM »
2.  Allow the player to raise their own familiar.  Having Lizuca raise an imp, an obvious fiend from the hells, is really odd.  Plus there are PCs who are outcasts who might not want to go into the ML church.  It makes sense to me that a PC, having summoned their own familiar in the first place, would be able to call its spirit back from the beyond.

I think if people are playing evil characters, using evil spells, or taking evil familiars, there is probably a little bit of an out-cast value there. Its a bit of the quirks for being evil.
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Endlessorrow

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Re: A thought on familiar/summon death
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2013, 06:15:42 PM »
 The arcane familiars are realy outstanding here on PoTM Thematic and spooky. Exotic and fun. Posses able talking surrogates for mages  I love that aspect of the game.  Animal companions are a  important class feature for druids. I understand and have even participated in the abuse. my level 4 sorcerer / witch  summoned her imp like 5 times constantly attacking to kill Radu around 2 years ago.  Also a buffed imp can invis its "master" and grind many a low level cave or dungeon.  How about a cheaper price for raising pets?    normal animals= 25 gp per level  magical beasts and  the like = 50 gp per level outsiders and undead companions = 75 gp per lvl.  if this is to much a scripting feat how about a temple, or grove, or druid npc who can raise the animal companions for free? perhaps in a southern forest map?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 09:45:08 PM by Endlessorrow »
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RedwizardD

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Re: A thought on familiar/summon death
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2013, 08:20:04 PM »
if this is to much a scripting feat how about a trmple or grove or druid npc who can raise the animal companions for free? perhaps in a southern forest map?


There's actually a tree with a door in it somewhere in the forest. That would be a good place for something like this..

Snowflame

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Re: A thought on familiar/summon death
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2013, 01:07:25 PM »
In P&P losing your familiar is a big deal. They need to be raised or replaced, if memory serves.

However, much unlike Prisoners, Familiars are actually useful in P&P.

C'est la vie.

Actually... if a Wizard loses their familiar in PNP they not only lose exp, but they also can't raise it for 1 year.

As for animal companions you can supposedly pray and bear jesus or whatever nature deity you worship gives you a new animal in 24 hours.

here however, if any of them die you gotta just cough up coin and go on your way.

What is unfortunate however is that unlike typical pen and paper... The Familiar is 10 times more useful I found than the animal companion.

but that would be conversation for another thread.


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Re: A thought on familiar/summon death
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2013, 01:20:51 PM »
In P&P losing your familiar is a big deal. They need to be raised or replaced, if memory serves.

However, much unlike Prisoners, Familiars are actually useful in P&P.

C'est la vie.

Actually... if a Wizard loses their familiar in PNP they not only lose exp, but they also can't raise it for 1 year.

As for animal companions you can supposedly pray and bear jesus or whatever nature deity you worship gives you a new animal in 24 hours.

here however, if any of them die you gotta just cough up coin and go on your way.

What is unfortunate however is that unlike typical pen and paper... The Familiar is 10 times more useful I found than the animal companion.

but that would be conversation for another thread.


That is incorrect. The familiar can be raised/resurrected at any time. It cannot be replaced with another familiar for a year.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#sorcerer

Quote
A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs.
Raise/resurrecting a slain familiar is not replacing it, thus you do not have to wait a year.

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