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Author Topic: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal  (Read 1678 times)

Alamut

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Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« on: February 15, 2013, 09:13:00 AM »
Hello folks. I have a huge concern about Rping a paladin of Kelemvor here.

Perhaps by pointing out each situation will help to check about the proper rolls and skills regarding fear and paladins.

Example 1: if someone taunt my paladin, in an attempt to break his defensive position, we would roll a taunt vs concentration check.

Example 2: if this person actually threats him, in an attempt to actually make my paladin to fear him. Could I say my paladin is immune to fear and wouldn't bother, but would have his defensive position compromised (like any taunt check) ?

Example 3: same as above. The proper check would still be concentration and the reaction would be something still not like a common person, but an uneasy feeling by getting around him. Not a proper fear to flee away.

Example 4: same as above, but in this case would be discipline check instead of concentration. And even a fail would be just an uneasy feeling around him, but not like fear thing to fee away.

Example 5: same as above, but in this case would be Will check against fear. And even a fail would be just an uneasy feeling around him, but not like fear thing to flee away.

I thank you.

aprogressivist

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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2013, 09:19:04 AM »
Note: Paladins aren't immune to natural fear in Ravenloft; they're just immune to magical fear.
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
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Alamut

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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2013, 09:21:36 AM »
If that's official, then they would flee away like any warrior or common folk ?

Probably yes, but how about under the taunt mechanism ? How to RP that ? And what's the proper check considering the situations stated above ?

Kendaric

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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2013, 09:32:56 AM »
The general feeling of dread in Ravenloft definitely affects paladins, though probably to a slightly lesser degree than other classes.

As for reactions:

I do not believe there can or should be a hard rule about it, every character will react differently to a failed check. Especially when it comes to the "social" skills like antagonize. A feral barbarian character might actually react aggressive on a failed check, a disciplined warrior might perhaps raise his guard and prepare to defend himself. Very few characters would outright flee unless they are timid by nature or the threatening character really looks dangerous enough.

DangerousToGoAlone

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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2013, 09:36:23 AM »
How I see paladin fear immunity, is not so much as not knowing it/sensing it. Moreso in the way of it not paralyzing, and the paladin remaining calm in a situation that would make others crap their pants.

In gothic horror like Ravenloft this works with a paladin's wisdom as well I figure (They need to have wisdom to cast spells so likely a decent stat for them!), with learning to identify when stuff is bad, and when they should flee/take caution etc.

With intimidate/antagonize, a paladin may not quiver in fear/back down, but depending on the roll still be wary, and maybe choose not to pursue something if it would cause needless danger/fights. Not counting the need to follow their Code of Conduct, this should still take priority for paladins, in every situation!
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Alamut

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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2013, 09:41:50 AM »
Interesting points, I thank you all. In summary, they would react a bit more mature than others and would also respect the vows and oaths they've taken.

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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2013, 12:47:18 AM »
Note: Paladins aren't immune to natural fear in Ravenloft; they're just immune to magical fear.

Are you sure? Cause I would have thought it would be the other way around? Then agian I've never played a paladin so what do I know :P

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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2013, 12:54:04 AM »
Paladins are immune to the magical effects of fear auras and such, not the emotional aspect of fear itself like facing a seventy foot tall colossus armed with a sky scraper. That would make for a retarded hero of derp proportions charging dark lords with a blunt stick shouting "For Trom!" If it's trying to influence you by means other than being effing terrifying then it's not gonna work on a paladin. i.e magical.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 12:57:52 AM by Badelaire »

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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2013, 02:45:51 AM »
Correct. Your paladin is a person too. If they're afraid of spiders? They're afraid of spiders. But a wizard can't make them magically afraid of spiders, if they aren't.
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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2013, 06:58:20 AM »
  Mikal would have noticed Ania's fear of heights and rats. Although a paladin, she is terrified by those two simple things. And besides, playing a fearless paladin is not fun. :)
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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2013, 07:52:38 AM »
Play a paladin that is afraid of the dark. That is always fun.

Kendaric

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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2013, 08:40:15 AM »
  Mikal would have noticed Ania's fear of heights and rats. Although a paladin, she is terrified by those two simple things. And besides, playing a fearless paladin is not fun. :)

Terrified of rats, eh? I guess Nathaniel has to take you on a sightseeing tour through Vallaki's sewers ;)

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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2013, 09:41:03 AM »
Standard mechanics mean that Paladins are immune to Fear, and thus Intimidation attempts.

Taunt and Intimidation are not the same thing, though they share the same skill points on Ravenloft: PotM (Exception rather than the norm).

Taunt is to enrage the Paladin, not scare him. Quite possible, they have the same emotions as everyone else. They're just really brave.
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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2013, 12:06:56 PM »
Antagonize rolls bother me. Nobody uses it in a taunting sort of way - they seem to assume that a high antagonize roll means that their character is big and scary. That overwhelming sense of unease isn't something that just comes from a skill roll, it comes from a carefully cultivated character reputation. See: people like Ovidiu Lacusta.
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aprogressivist

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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2013, 12:11:44 PM »
Antagonize rolls bother me. Nobody uses it in a taunting sort of way - they seem to assume that a high antagonize roll means that their character is big and scary. That overwhelming sense of unease isn't something that just comes from a skill roll, it comes from a carefully cultivated character reputation. See: people like Ovidiu Lacusta.

Agreed, which is why people have a licence to ignore it or respond to it as they see fit if they feel it hasn't been roleplayed correctly.
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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2013, 01:06:32 PM »
I see a lot of misconceptions in this topic regarding paladins in Ravenloft. Here is what the source books have to say:

Quote
• Aura of Courage: Although the Ravenloft paladin remains immune to magical fear, she is not immune to "natural" Fear saves, which are the product of her own sense of survival. (In a sense, playing a PC immune to fear in a horror campaign is simply missing out on the point.) Instead, the paladin receives the Courage feat for free at 2nd level.

Paladins in Ravenloft can be scared or intimidated; they just are immune to things like Aura of Fear (like what bonebats and mummies have).

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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2013, 09:29:55 PM »
I see a lot of misconceptions in this topic regarding paladins in Ravenloft. Here is what the source books have to say:

Quote
• Aura of Courage: Although the Ravenloft paladin remains immune to magical fear, she is not immune to "natural" Fear saves, which are the product of her own sense of survival. (In a sense, playing a PC immune to fear in a horror campaign is simply missing out on the point.) Instead, the paladin receives the Courage feat for free at 2nd level.

Paladins in Ravenloft can be scared or intimidated; they just are immune to things like Aura of Fear (like what bonebats and mummies have).

so on the server do paladins get some sort of mechanic bonus vs fear then? +2 i think it is if memory serves right?

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Re: Paladins, Fear and Courage - by Mikal
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2013, 02:09:14 PM »
I see a lot of misconceptions in this topic regarding paladins in Ravenloft. Here is what the source books have to say:

Quote
• Aura of Courage: Although the Ravenloft paladin remains immune to magical fear, she is not immune to "natural" Fear saves, which are the product of her own sense of survival. (In a sense, playing a PC immune to fear in a horror campaign is simply missing out on the point.) Instead, the paladin receives the Courage feat for free at 2nd level.

Paladins in Ravenloft can be scared or intimidated; they just are immune to things like Aura of Fear (like what bonebats and mummies have).

so on the server do paladins get some sort of mechanic bonus vs fear then? +2 i think it is if memory serves right?

They hold to the standard mechanical immunity to fear. i.e. there's no situation where paladin is subject to NWN's fear effect in the game; Though this doesn't mean immunity to natural fear, which is better suited for being RP'ed. Far as I can tell, they don't get any special bonuses to any rolls through the emote system.

Also, unlike in NWN, in standard DnD and Ravenloft, being under the effect of fear (or rather, being frightened or shaken) doesn't usually prompt one to mindlessly bump into walls. Typically your character would get frightened, which is -2 AB and saving throws. Running away in panic (fittingly, 'panicked' in game terms) usually requires another failed save when already shaken. ;)

To note one thing though, that a monster has a Fear Aura doesn't mean it would only possess magical fear effect. Natural fear rolls are also triggered by stuff like having a frightening appearance, being several size categories larger than the largest member in the party, being overpowering against the party in terms of combat ability, etc.