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Author Topic: Balance Enchanting Boots  (Read 5878 times)

Bad_Bud

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Balance Enchanting Boots
« on: February 09, 2013, 04:49:05 PM »
The quality of some boots in relation to their cost is questionable.

In particular,

Enchanted Ancient Dire Bear Boots
Cost: 3000xp
Essence: Strong magic
Result: +1 universal saves, +1 AC, +6 reflex saves

Enchanted Ancient Dire Crocodile Boots
Cost: 5000xp
Essence: Radiant magic
Result: +1 universal saves, +1 AC, +9 Antagonize, +3 Move Silently

Skill points take a back seat to saving throws every day, at least for me, and Antagonize is not really something someone needs to enchant an item for to get maximum benefit.

I think the Enchanted Ancient Dire Crocodile Boots would have to give a +2 AC bonus (which would not be beyond the theme, considering the bonuses the hide applies to armor) to justify the comparative cost increase.  A +2 AC bonus on player crafted boots is a craft niche that needs filling anyway.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 04:52:08 PM by Bad_Bud »


Lucadia

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 01:15:17 AM »
Just tried a pair of dire crag cat boots

Enchanted Dire Craig Cat Boots
Cost: 2000 exp
Essence: strong magic
result: +1 universal saves, +1 ac, +6 reflex

These boots are exactly like the bear boots, but for 1k exp less

I was expecting some other enchant, to be different , not to have two different items produce the same thing at different costs.

Kaspar

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2013, 01:28:29 AM »
The quality of some boots in relation to their cost is questionable.

In particular,


Enchanted Ancient Dire Crocodile Boots
Cost: 5000xp
Essence: Radiant magic
Result: +1 universal saves, +1 AC, +9 Antagonize, +3 Move Silently

Skill points take a back seat to saving throws every day, at least for me, and Antagonize is not really something someone needs to enchant an item for to get maximum benefit.

I think the Enchanted Ancient Dire Crocodile Boots would have to give a +2 AC bonus (which would not be beyond the theme, considering the bonuses the hide applies to armor) to justify the comparative cost increase.  A +2 AC bonus on player crafted boots is a craft niche that needs filling anyway.

The +9 antagonize on these boots help the higher levels equip themselves to antagonize the pit fiends which have an insane DC to taunt. I'd hate to see this removed personally on account of that. I don't oppose adding +2 ac to them somehow.

Bad_Bud

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2013, 02:33:07 AM »
Whatever makes it as a +2 AC boot probably shouldn't have +9 skill bonuses on it.


Lucadia

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2013, 09:20:04 PM »
Enchanted Bodak Boots
Exp Cost: 2000
effects: +1 dodge, +1 universal saves


Enchanted Snake Skin boots
Exp Cost: 3000
Effects: +1 dodge, +1 universal saves, +3 move silently


Enchanted White Stag boots
Exp cost: 3000
effects +1 dodge, +1 universal Saves, +6 reflex
................

Im having trouble how to post this being constructive, but im concerned with more then three types of different boots resulting in +6 reflex saves at different exp costs, with no other changes to the enchanted item.

Also for the cost of the snake skin boots only offering a +3 move silent bonus is very under par , when in the loot tables there at hectors wary treads with +5 move silenty, Elven boots at +10 and Mocassins at +10 with 50 charges of exp retreat.

Suggest boosting these snake boots up to +10 also. Least offer a carrot of getting enchanted ones for the saves.

White stag being +6 reflex with the other two pairs of books is disturbing also.
What I would suggest  is a +3 universal saves for supposedly being lucky fur.

aprogressivist

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2013, 09:24:43 PM »
I think +10 may be a bit over the top for the snake skin boots, but I think it might be worth making them at least closer to par with the Ebon Tiger boots...
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Lucadia

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2013, 11:43:07 PM »
Currently as they are, nobody would want them over say another pair of enchanted boots

I would prefer see more that offered skill bonuses over say..+6 saves

What Stag Boots could offer +8 influence for their price (this is just example)

Snake Skin could offer +8 and still fall in being better then Hectors but not as good as Elven boots that can be aquire.

Bodak could offer 10 resist to negative, +8 to concentration, +5 to parry or some other skill bonus that would be appropriate for undead skin.

respawnaholic

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2013, 06:23:31 PM »
Currently as they are, nobody would want them over say another pair of enchanted boots

I would prefer see more that offered skill bonuses over say..+6 saves

What Stag Boots could offer +8 influence for their price (this is just example)

Snake Skin could offer +8 and still fall in being better then Hectors but not as good as Elven boots that can be aquire.

Bodak could offer 10 resist to negative, +8 to concentration, +5 to parry or some other skill bonus that would be appropriate for undead skin.

Think the easiest thing would be to change up the universal saves with something a little more "flavorful" to each style of boot.

Each get +1 AC (dodge)
Ancient Dire Bear +3 Fort Save +3 save vs fear (3000)
Croc +3 Fort Save, +1 will (3000)
Dire craig cat +3 reflex save +3 tumble (3000)
Troll +4 fort save (3000)
Ebon Tiger +3 reflex save, +1 hide +1 MS (3000)
White Stag +2 Reflex Save, +2 Will save (3000)
Bodak +2 Fort Save +4 Save vs Death (3000)
Gargoyle +1 universal save (3000)
Wolf, Bear (all except dire) +1 fort save, +3 save vs cold (2000)
Dire Bear +2 fort save (2000)
Snakeskin +1 reflex save, +1 hide, +1 MS (2000)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 06:31:28 PM by respawnaholic »

Lucadia

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2013, 08:16:10 PM »
Most of your suggestitions are much too meager for the exp price examples set with them.
With the abilty to either get hold of +2 dodge boots or +1 boots with discipline skills with no exp cost in comparison.

Such as ebon tiger being only +1 hide and +1 ms, no sneak would wear these, if your into stealth, your saves are your least concern.

They should also be comparable to each other, otherwise there will always be a clear cut choice for a player and the rest would not be used even if they was "flavor"

Such as 3k for +1 univeral save or +4 fort for 3k, not comparable, easy for one choose the other.

I rather see skill bonuses added over some of the saves that keep repeating with different recipes . Skill bonuses are much more rp favorable then just adding more saves.

respawnaholic

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2013, 08:22:12 PM »
Most of your suggestitions are much too meager for the exp price examples set with them.
With the abilty to either get hold of +2 dodge boots or +1 boots with discipline skills with no exp cost in comparison.

Such as ebon tiger being only +1 hide and +1 ms, no sneak would wear these, if your into stealth, your saves are your least concern.

They should also be comparable to each other, otherwise there will always be a clear cut choice for a player and the rest would not be used even if they was "flavor"

Such as 3k for +1 univeral save or +4 fort for 3k, not comparable, easy for one choose the other.

I rather see skill bonuses added over some of the saves that keep repeating with different recipes . Skill bonuses are much more rp favorable then just adding more saves.

True. I'm used to posting for regular mundane magical items (if that isn't an oxymoron). I would say that if the EXP hit is too high tone it down some rather than beef up the skills. As it is pretty much every item on the server gives decent to generous bonuses to skills and some of the suituational item swapping people do to max out a specific stat at a specific time is starting to reach absurd proportions.

Lucadia

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2013, 09:03:25 PM »
Yes, but the items should also be in par with what can be found, which is between the +5 and +10 skill bonues now on certain skills

Example, Ebon tiger gives +6 hide +4 reflex , + 1 dodge and +1 univeral saves

For the Snakeskin, I would like see it give +6 move silenty, +3 will saves and raise the cost to 5k exp. They fill a niche thats previously not there

Ryltar/ Robert Archer

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2013, 09:35:22 PM »
Example, Ebon tiger gives +6 hide +4 reflex , + 1 dodge and +1 univeral saves

This is me just nitpicking i guess but someone explain to me how boots help you hide better  :lol: realistically it'd be move silent not hide  :lol: honestly there's a lot of items i have come across that just make me go WTF? O.o in trying to figure how they do the mechanic items they do

Crimson Shuriken

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2013, 09:40:01 PM »
The ebon tiger fur is extraordinarily stealthy.
Ebon Tigers are magical beasts, not normal animals. They are more like a unicorn than a horse in other words.

Among their abilities is the Stealth Supernatural Ability. Its not far fetched to imagine their fur would have this property to a lesser extent.

Stealth(Su): The very nature of the ebon tiger makes it a very stealthy
creature. Their natural coloring gives them a natural +20 to Hide checks, and
their near weightlessness from being incorporeal grants them a nautral +20 to
Move Silently checks.


I'm so casual, my shoes look like feet.

Ryltar/ Robert Archer

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2013, 09:40:45 PM »
The ebon tiger fur is extraordinarily stealthy.
Ebon Tigers are magical beasts, not normal animals. They are more like a unicorn than a horse in other words.

Among their abilities is the Stealth Supernatural Ability. Its not far fetched to imagine their fur would have this property to a lesser extent.

Stealth(Su): The very nature of the ebon tiger makes it a very stealthy
creature. Their natural coloring gives them a natural +20 to Hide checks, and
their near weightlessness from being incorporeal grants them a nautral +20 to
Move Silently checks.

fair point there then crimson so why not have it as say +2 hide/move silent?

Lucadia

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2013, 10:16:43 PM »
+2 is the normal pair of boots. Talking about enchanted ones which are going be better..

and it says something on the description their fur is so dark it absorbs light, hence why they are better hiders

Ellana Twiggy

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2013, 09:55:20 AM »
I might say drop the ac bonus on ebon tiger and make them +4 hide /move silent. Give them a +2 to reflex. That should make them quite worth while for a sneak to get them enchanted.

DM Panic

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2013, 10:15:07 AM »
All boot recipes, even the "bad" ones, are definitely worth enchanting.

In my personal opinion, I think that Ancient Dire Crocodile hide should be looked at, and the Move Silently bonuses should be replaced with Discipline bonuses at all ranks and stages of the recipes to optimize the bonuses as the niche choice for fighters, barbarians, and combat oriented rogues who have splashed a martial class for discipline points.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 10:17:13 AM by DM Panic »

MadJKevlar

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2013, 10:25:51 AM »
Speaking on the mention Discipline bonus, I was really disappointed when i got to the oasis, saw a bunch of Lions, killed them only to find the King of Beasts drops no hide to make warrior discipline items out of, in my honest opinion Lion hides would be awesome for discipline garments, or if not "Antagonize".

Also are we coming to the conclusion of Croc skin giving Discipline because it would supposedly give better grip to boots and gloves?

Sidhel

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2013, 12:02:42 PM »
'All' of the boots currently are pretty effing amazing. To the point boots are the best enchantments, because its an item slot you don't drop, the bonuses are amazing/just as good as armor, and the experience cost of the least.

So OP.
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YouLitABonfire

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2013, 12:05:57 PM »

Lucadia

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2013, 01:05:34 PM »
Your not looking at the recipe prices in compariso that range from 2k to 5k. Nor for
That price are they over the top. Probably be more concerned about +1 save items
That drop a lot when enchanted boots you can't get till lv 14.

If you change recipe on boots it also affects enchanted armours. Right now snakeskin be +3 ms and tiger +6 hide.
Rogues garbs come at +3 hide and ms. Shadowed armour at +4 each also.
Saving throws on the items do not matter as they not that great for sneak gear
And be easily removed In favor of skill bonuses better then mundane items.



Sidhel

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2013, 07:02:38 PM »
Your not looking at the recipe prices in compariso that range from 2k to 5k. Nor for
That price are they over the top. Probably be more concerned about +1 save items
That drop a lot when enchanted boots you can't get till lv 14.

If you change recipe on boots it also affects enchanted armours. Right now snakeskin be +3 ms and tiger +6 hide.
Rogues garbs come at +3 hide and ms. Shadowed armour at +4 each also.
Saving throws on the items do not matter as they not that great for sneak gear
And be easily removed In favor of skill bonuses better then mundane items.




I would beg to differ, saving throws are everything. Its just a matter of preference, would you rather have good ac and stealth, or good ac, saves, and still keep your stealth high.

+1ac/+1saves/+3 MS > WAY better than +1 AC / +5 ms
Isadora von Brussel - Deathsinger of Orcus (Deceased, Again)

aprogressivist

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2013, 07:25:29 PM »
+1ac/+1saves/+3 MS > WAY better than +1 AC / +5 ms

Not when you pay 3000XP for the first pair and the second pair drops as loot.

ESPECIALLY when you consider there's +10 MS boots out there that have already outclassed Hector's Wary Treads.
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
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Sidhel

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2013, 07:27:54 PM »
I'd pay twice that for the first pair, I just don't because I don't have any viable PCs that can participate in enchanting.
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aprogressivist

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Re: Balance Enchanting Boots
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2013, 07:34:54 PM »
I'd pay twice that for the first pair, I just don't because I don't have any viable PCs that can participate in enchanting.

At the going rate of exchange for these things, you'd be overpaying by a factor of three to four times, I reckon. I base this statement on the going rate for enchanted weapons and Hector's Treads sold at the Goose auctions.
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo