Author Topic: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.  (Read 7465 times)

Time_Stomped

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Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« on: February 06, 2013, 08:58:11 PM »
Lower strength characters that don't cast magic that toil around taking ages can't greatly increase their ability to mine.  Casters can just buff up and "farm" it without actually knowing anything about mining whatsoever.  Ultimately, many people will choose to have smithing with a cleric and/or something with power attack, etc because it's convenient.  I feel mining is closer to buffing up for a raid boss to down than the simplicity of toiling.

It's also far too time consuming for day based characters at the moment and usually people "farm" the same spots.

Instead of having mining be dependent on buffs/attack damage have it as a separate skill check.  This might be convenient considering that changing it from attacking the rocks/seams may reduce the amount of unnecessary combat messages for just attacking rocks.

Mining skill - Modifiers - Str, Dex.
Rocks:
Copper - DC 15
Tin - DC 15
Iron - DC 25
Coal - DC 30
Seams:
Copper - DC 20
Tin - DC 20
Iron - DC 30
Coal - DC 35

On a successful check, miner gets d3(seams)/d6(rocks) times ore, along with d3/d6 additional ore per 10 levels of mining.  Two successful checks per rock every 72 hours (per character).  Four successful checks per seam every 72 hours (per character).  Mining-related backgrounds start with 3 in the skill as well as smelting.
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RigorMortis

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 10:07:18 PM »
Actually I have mastered smithing on three characters. And none were casters, it helps if you have friends to do it, but not Empowered Bulls Strength is going to take a Sorcerer above 16 Strength, the same as a Fighter or even a Barbarian. Agreed a rogue would probably not be best fit to take up the smithing proffession, although they have other beneficial ability scores. that assist other proffesions such as alchemy or woodworking, adding a new mining skill doesn't seem neccesary and it would take up alot of time scripting it.

EberronBruce

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 10:07:54 PM »
Do what I did with my apprentice and hire muscle. Get someone like a barbarian to mine for you. Just pay them a wage.

Time_Stomped

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2013, 12:19:16 AM »
These suggestions of hiring people do not resolve the issue of solo play being significantly (likely 10+ times) better due to specific mechanics that don't actually relate to the skill of mining.

-Hiring muscle doesn't resolve the issue of the said muscle being laughably weaker than having a cleric smacking the tar out of the copper quarry in a few minutes.
-Neither does it address the ridiculous amount of time compared to the "easy mode farm status" that a specific class can make do with.
-Or people farming the same areas over and over again.

Soloing is discouraged in my new system and it also allows people to be hired and to have people explore elsewhere for mining.  It also fixes the economy of having a character take a party, farm endless amounts in one sitting, and be set for ages.
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dutchy

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2013, 01:01:24 AM »
i do not see how your idea improves anything.

wizards clerics druids any caster can still match your stats by what lvl 6-8 ?   bullstrength cats grace and voila.

as for difrant places to mine.

where?

balinoks?  enjoy the walk home cause it makes 0 sense to make a place to smith there with the vamp crypt the ice witch and other dangers there.

so honestly anything you can do as a none caster they can do aswell, crafting wise that is.

my advice buy a bottle of bulls and a freedom potion like the rest of them.  (i do wonder if freedom is supposed to work that way)

i do agree with the time consuming part.
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Dire Corby

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2013, 01:11:40 AM »
It's not a bad idea however I think that you've overlooked some of the balancing factors in place.  For example, a warrior type with a high str and lots of attacks is in a good position to mine quickly....especially with Power Attack or Improved Power Attack lord have mercy!

Speaking for myself I have a smith character who is approaching mastery and she has a str of 12 and access to bulls and several attacks....and that is about it.  Know how I did it?  Attack the rock and read a book.  :P

Time_Stomped

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 03:56:44 AM »
It's not a bad idea however I think that you've overlooked some of the balancing factors in place.  For example, a warrior type with a high str and lots of attacks is in a good position to mine quickly....especially with Power Attack or Improved Power Attack lord have mercy!

Speaking for myself I have a smith character who is approaching mastery and she has a str of 12 and access to bulls and several attacks....and that is about it.  Know how I did it?  Attack the rock and read a book.  :P

That's not a balancing factor, that just means high str warriors that pick -specific feats- get a mining advantage over others just like clerics.
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Time_Stomped

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 04:25:38 AM »
I do not see how your idea improves anything.

It's a balance change not a buff.  Spell buffs were originally a part of the crafting calculator and were taken out due to imbalances.  This simply is a change to include the process of mining.  Your idea of having classes needing levels and buffs to properly mine, vindicate the idea entirely.
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Silverfox

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 06:19:17 AM »
Truefax. My L6 Dwarf Paladin can empty the Balinok copper quarry before midday and have it to Dvergheim before nightfall by virtue of one buff and a feat. Smithing is a bit of an iffy system altogether.
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APorg

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 09:15:08 AM »
I agree, right now mining is too level-based.
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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 10:04:23 AM »
tbh i dont see the advantage of this i play a cleric who's got only a 13 str (and always will less she self buffs which she rarely does) and she wont be taking power attack because well i go on rp build up not a power build setup which i guess seems to me a rarity (no offense to any powerbuilders just saying is all) in either case i find the need for her to gather a party and get help to gather the ore she needs a rewarding one, case in point a week back yoa got five people together to help her get copper ore, within an 1hr rl time we had ....god it was like 5 1/2 pages of copper ore, (poor ox btw :lol: glad no dm was around to see that) in either case it took another three hours till she was all done smelting and then another 2 1/2 to get a few smithing done, only for the server to decide to crash and roll back SIX hours before all the ore was gathered so that alll my work was gone  :cry:

point i guess i'm saying is that having to get extra help should be a task needed, some people in real life are better suited to many tasks for a variety of reasons (aka their 'build') so it makes a sort of sense that the same could be said here

Metal_ash

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2013, 01:18:36 PM »
Maybe a bit of the topic, but why not have merchants (both players and NPC) that actually sell ignots and bars of metal, can be same with leather worker merchants that actually sell finished patches.

Crafting now, at least some crafts is really time consuming... and as i see it, far from every smith and leather worker mine or hunt for hide them self's.

Also another way mentioned here is to hire people to mine for you, or hunt for skins or what ever you need for your craft.

But i am not one that would complain if the dwarfs or some other NPC merchant actually started to sell allready mined ignots, then you have an option... mine it your self and save you gold, hire someone to mine for you, or spend your hard earned gold and just buy it ( if you can afford that ).

To say certain classes may have it more easy, well..maybe... that would depend on the build more then the actually class..but to assume all rogues is DEX based is way wrong, same as to assume all fighters have great strength.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 01:21:47 PM by Metal_ash »

blur927

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2013, 01:40:48 PM »
Maybe a bit of the topic, but why not have merchants (both players and NPC) that actually sell ignots and bars of metal, can be same with leather worker merchants that actually sell finished patches.


Another alternative would be to allow selling ore / hides or whatever to the proper npc, then have the npc mark them up and re-sell them to PCs. I think only the vistani let you sell those things right now, and they don't give you enough to make it worth your while. If merchants were willing to pay 5-10 fang for some crafting material then mark that up to 30, it might help the in game economy, as long as there was a limit on the amount merchants would keep on hand at any one time.

dutchy

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2013, 07:11:29 PM »
i do not see why people do not group up sell themselves to a merchant say we will mine for one day for an X amount of money.

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Silverfox

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2013, 07:17:23 PM »
Because generally people aren't willing to pay.
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RedwizardD

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2013, 07:42:38 PM »
Would be nice if crafted goods were actually worth more than the component materials.

Bad_Bud

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2013, 09:16:23 PM »
Would be nice if crafted goods were actually worth more than the component materials.

That will never be true, you realize.  90% of the work that goes into crafting something is the work required to gather materials.  The other 10% is pressing a button.  Supply and demand - once you have the crafting levels required to press your button successfully, that supply becomes an infinite resource!  It's not in demand unless you're the only guy on the server with that craft level.  Material supplies are not infinite, and therefore, by demand, are worth far more.

RedwizardD

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2013, 10:08:29 PM »
I meant at the npc vendors. You can either get 4 gold for two leather patches or one gold for the boots you make with them. Just as an example.

Honoun

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2013, 10:50:00 PM »
I had a thought that it would be a great benefit that some select vendors, perhaps those that sell crafting components would buy back those items that we craft. Doing so would allow a go between for the rest of the player base to purchase these items more easily. As it is you have to track down another player to purchase crafted items which isn't all that convenient for some of us players.

Alternatively you could have vendors in market places that solely buy and sell crafted items. Create a building that houses these NPC vendors and call the area the "Crafters Market".

ThePwush

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2013, 11:15:18 PM »
I had a thought that it would be a great benefit that some select vendors, perhaps those that sell crafting components would buy back those items that we craft. Doing so would allow a go between for the rest of the player base to purchase these items more easily. As it is you have to track down another player to purchase crafted items which isn't all that convenient for some of us players.

Alternatively you could have vendors in market places that solely buy and sell crafted items. Create a building that houses these NPC vendors and call the area the "Crafters Market".

Kinda like this idea....
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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2013, 11:46:54 PM »
The reasoning behind this pricing is that we want to encourage actual player interaction; if characters could make a profit selling to NPCs, you'd see casters masscrafting just to make money by selling to NPCs, thus generating no roleplay. Buyers could buy from the NPC, sure, but that wouldn't be player interaction or roleplay.

It's a player market and that's exactly how we envisioned it. I don't foresee us changing that any time soon.

Honoun

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2013, 03:41:53 AM »
Granted, but the trouble is some of us never get to interact with other players to purchase anything so we are left out. I don't know how many times when on one of my chars who don't craft anything that just wanted to buy a simple healing potion only to never find anyone anywhere who would sell them. All this despite having a more money than they know what to do with. Asta for instance has 100k in the barovian bank but never sees anyone with anything that she needs to buy.

Now if you could impliment an auction house system that would be even better but I'm assuming getting such a system to work would be a nightmare to do. Thus having a crafters market seems to me the better option for now.

Smitehammer

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2013, 08:46:55 PM »
How about just having an NPC that will buy crafted items for a set price and NOT sell them to anyone else?  Like Navarre and those beetle elytra/mandibles.  People mass-crafting to make money - good?  If I'm playing a smith or whatever why must I never make a profit from smithing and ALWAYS resort to dungeonry for the money to craft until I can make steel weapons or armor?  Because that's all anyone ever buys and WILL ever buy.  With possible exception of the chitin stuff, now.  Is it really heartening to role-play to have someone spend thousands of in-game money gotten from anything BUT their vocation ON their vocational skills - only to turn around and throw everything they've made in the nearest trash bin?

If you're totally against for-profit crafting (for some reason) at least it shouldn't be unreasonable to have an NPC to sell back wholesale, for the price of the reagents themselves (template, bottle, whatever).  This way, if people fail it, they've nothing to sell back - and you still gain nothing and lose some - but it makes crafting a bit more endurable.
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Time_Stomped

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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2013, 11:30:52 AM »
People are sometimes willing to pay, but it's generally not profitable enough in the bronzework department.

It's also not advisable to store materials normally.  If there was a specific resource-storing warehouse, it could help to have something that stores in bulk.  Perhaps combining materials stored in a single item ledger deed.  (Meaning you can trade these).

On another note, the server owes me nearly *10* pages of tin ore lost during crashes. -_-
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Re: Mining and ultrabuffed casters.
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2013, 12:44:07 PM »
Has the server not teached you to save regular ?
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