"Emissary of the Legion"

[Budly]

Okay, as a player of the one of the characters in the 5h sect of Ezra, what is this all about it being part of the Legion? It is not, just to inform you people. It is clearly speaking of the Legion as something that will destroy itself at the final day and then the followers of Ezra will ascend to her realm.

[Ovidiu_Lacusta]

Spoiler-rific about those things Marle always kept from poor, poor Aleyi.... lol. Case in point, Aleyi has a different interpretation!

[Budly]

Spoiler-rific about those things Marle always kept from poor, poor Aleyi.... lol. Case in point, Aleyi has a different interpretation!

That was always a big part of it. Aleyi and Marle looked diffrenly upon the Revelation. Which one was or is closer to the truth? Anyway, No more spoilers. We keep out of this now. I still wish to see this plot end somehow

[Exordium]

On the topic of Clerics worshiping the Mists/DPs and getting spells... A recurring thing I've noticed in scouring the interwebs is that Clerics from some settings don't actually need a deity to be granted their spells. In some cases the spells are manifested by devout belief in an ideal and their own willpower.

Right off the WotC website and referencing a handbook:

A cleric could have no deity at all (see page 32 in the Player's Handbook). A cleric with no deity can have any alignment, but the cleric's choice of alignment can affect which clerical domains the cleric can choose (see the next section).

A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity's alignment (see the detect evil spell description for details), no matter what the cleric's alignment actually is. For example, a neutral good cleric of a lawful good deity has auras of law and good.

A cleric without a deity still has an alignment aura if he chooses the Chaos, Evil, Good, or Lawful domains. The aura matches the domain (or domains).

Yeah, the DnD standard rule (at least since 3rd edition, don't have 2nd ed handbook) is that clerics don't necessarily require a deity, but that any divine force, ideal, aspect, et cetera, can be worshiped; Why this is famously thought to be an exception rather than a rule, is that Forgotten Realms - being the most well known setting - requires every character able to cast divine spells to have a real patron deity; Or sometimes an entity of similar power, such as an archdemon, but these would generally offer a much more limited spell selection.

Technically speaking there is this rule on PoTM:

DEITIES

- Clerics and Paladins must have a known deity that is line with your character's origin/original campaign setting. Additionally, players with improper domains will be asked to remake their characters. An example: A cleric of Sune, the Forgotten Realms god of love, beauty and passion, should not have domains of death and war. Players with native characters to Ravenloft may choose Ravenloft deities. A list is available in our "About the World" section of this site.

..Though there's been a few very well played clerical characters who didn't worship a deity but a divine concept, and never were complained to about it. Personally, I do feel that having an existing religion (even if somewhat a loose one, such as the Eternal Order) will more easily lead to high coherency, which is paramount in shared storytelling.

The less organized religions that have more to do with old folklore and such may serve your needs very well and allow tailoring a character you're thinking of.

[APorg]

I think the main problem with the concept of "Emissary of the Legion" is that the Mists of Death are usually defined in opposition rather than in fact. Worshipping the Mists of Death in opposition to Ezra doesn't actually give you much of a religious skeleton to hang RP on or a theological basis.

It's kind of like being an atheist. When most people think of atheism, they automatically associate it with atheism as a reaction to Christianity, because that is the most prevalent religious force in the Western world. But if you get down to brass tacks, there's not actually a lot of central defining "dogma" to atheism beyond the fact that they don't believe in gods.

For example, a buddhist, a humanist and a communist can all be atheist in their philosophy, but would it really make sense to group them together in a faction of Atheists? No.

This doesn't mean that you can take the Emissary of Legion concept and define it into something playable, though, as said previously... but it does mean you need to define it more.

[granny]

It is interesting that no one mentions the Souragnian worship of Loas, aka spirits, in this thread.
The most suitable class would be Voodan, but at NWN we don't have it. So the closer of it would be cleric or druid (for some less harsh Loas).

In some way to worship all the Loas (or at least the darkest group of them) would be close to be worshiping the Legion of the Night and their wicked sources of power. The main Loa is the Lord of the Dead, who might claim the body of the unburied dead in four days to put at his service. And if that isn't enough for you, know that there is freedom to come out with another main source of worship as the Loas are as many as many are the existing things.

The Gods were silenced in Ravenloft, but not the spirits, who might act as their messengers. So a cleric that worships these spirits will have more contact with their source of power than most of the priests that lurk through our setting.

Also, it is important to mention the relation of the Loas with the Ezra cult. In Souragne people would mix up both beliefs. As Ezra is the religion of the most powerful and rich, it is imposed over the population. The open worship of the Loas is usually practiced mainly by the masse. Although, when everything fails and despair comes it doesn't matter how wealthier you are, in Souragne you will be looking for the aid of the Voodans. This kind of thing lets out open door to twists of the Ezra Church beliefs and adaptations accordingly to the suitable background you seek.

[Ovidiu_Lacusta]

Great, great post guivic! Where in Iadul did you come from!?

A perfect example of what we've been driving at in this thread.  And I've only hinted because I don't want to spoil anything, but you're DEAD ON. Hah.

[Heretic]

Going to share with you a never before seen write up for the Fifth Heresy set up - this one was made for Wurtbeich's Hideout in Port-a-Lucine, before it was torched - I made it so part of Heresy takes some of its roots & rituals from Sourange & the Loa:

  Dev. Area & set up description - Cult definition.

Spoiler: show

Located in the heart of poverty under one of Quartier Ouvrier's warehouses, the chapel is core to the heretical newborn cult that believes in the Fifth Revelation. Led by guru, ex-erudite Lilas Wurtbeich, the cult welcomes all those who have alternate or complementary beliefs---while many are allowed to assist the chapel, the most devout even becoming Wardens, rare are those who show unparalleled devotion and are brought to the core inner circle of Wurtbeich's acolytes, which are the Black Blades of Ezra.

Quartier Ouvrier

Lilas Wurtbeich, like the many members of the church, particularly those of Home faith and dementlieuse sect, is quite open to the notion that Ezra reveals new aspects of her purpose and nature through the many visionaries; it's what each of the various existing sects were founded on. The cult welcomes well the Balise (Avatar heresy) heretics who have taken a keen interest to Marle's condition. The cult has known a gain in popularity, so much as to being subjects of hushed talks at the House of Sages in Richemulot, where more and more curious have been drawn to pilgrim to Port-a-Lucine in hopes of catching the phenomenon. The cult leader was first and foremost a scholar, thus they are very open to theologists and people of knowledge, always open to share without taboos anything that would further their understanding of the Grand Scheme.

The cult's operations revolve around establishing alliances, gaining new converts, gaining wealth, knowledge that would allow them to gain and support new converts.

Ecclesiastical hierarchy:

Marle Winterlass - Saint - (Honorific title)
Lilas Wurtbeich - Bastion
Black Black of Ezra Anchorite/Torets - Normally spread throughout the important settlements of The core, each being Sentire to a cell/web of converts in their own native Land.
Fifth Sect Anchorites/Warden
Laymen
Acolytes from other cults/Balise Followers

Conversions:

Converts are processed in the same way the Ezrite church deals with them. Given the cult's need to find new converts and spread Ezra's new message, the cult has been conveying the new message to the poor. The poor being a good and easy vessel to spread the faith, often receptive to preachings in exchange of benevolent care.

Those who show interest in the cult's preachings and consistently so are brought in as laymen---> Those laymen who show devotion and pass the shield trial ---> Are made Fifth Sect anchorites ---> Those exceptional Anchorites who show devotion bring in new converts and pass the Black Blade of Ezra trial* (Influenced by Wurtbeich's travels in Sourange) are made Black Blades of Ezra, tasked with higher responsibility, which usually relates in finding new converts to ally to the cause.

* Trial consists in having the convert drink a concoction, recipe which contains a substance that makes the drinker enter a prolonged state of Coma. Between the time the drinker takes the potion, he appears dead, his metabolism slowed down to almost imperceptibility. The ritual draws its root to this motto:"...To lighten suffering, to be a true anchorite, thou must die and be reborn as our guardian did. Only the worthy will rise and suffer. And their suffering shall set the living free..." - Those that would rise the fifth day, would be deemed worthy of being anchorites as they were "Reborn as our guardian did, only the worthy rise and suffer and their suffering shall set the living free".


Members:

Marle Winterlass - Honorific Status: Black blade of Barovia
Lilas Wurtbeich - Black blade of Port-a-Lucine
-The rest scratched out for spoiler reasons-

  Relevant Loa flavor write up:

Spoiler: show

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=13729.msg192032#msg192032

[Crimson Shuriken]

Great post Heretic, and shame about Wurtbeich's Hideout, I remember that place, a very atmospheric little place that was. 

[Budly]

That pains me, Heretic. 

[granny]

Well, guys, this is most exciting!
I am currently playing Mamere Lucia and while I have spent a lot of time reading and learning from the Loa and Souragnian culture, I still have a lot to know from the Ezra church. The most interesting part of it to me is how the Loa cult would chance the beliefs of the main church and how the Ezra worshiping would imply on changes over the relation with the Loa.

If you guys are really going into this kind of stuff, feel free to contact me IG or send a PM, so we might discuss ways of merging some goals or bringing up new plots.

[Snowflame]

On the topic of Clerics worshiping the Mists/DPs and getting spells... A recurring thing I've noticed in scouring the interwebs is that Clerics from some settings don't actually need a deity to be granted their spells. In some cases the spells are manifested by devout belief in an ideal and their own willpower.

Right off the WotC website and referencing a handbook:

A cleric could have no deity at all (see page 32 in the Player's Handbook). A cleric with no deity can have any alignment, but the cleric's choice of alignment can affect which clerical domains the cleric can choose (see the next section).

A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity's alignment (see the detect evil spell description for details), no matter what the cleric's alignment actually is. For example, a neutral good cleric of a lawful good deity has auras of law and good.

A cleric without a deity still has an alignment aura if he chooses the Chaos, Evil, Good, or Lawful domains. The aura matches the domain (or domains).

Hang on there... while there is that, I know that for certain settings things can be very different. Like for Forgotten Realms I know you have to be in a certain alignment increment to get powers from a deity but in ebberron it doesn't matter.

It prolly doesn't matter much for Ravenloft either seeing as The Church of Ezra tends to have a very wide spread of alignment choices

Also want to note I'd like this idea...