sky high prices...

[-narwhal-]

Aha, so that's 3200 skeletons. In three hours. Making it killing one skeleton in every three second for three hours. Anyone able to do that honestly deserve those 16k gold.

so let us sell the potions for the same price : P

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

You can go hunt minks or rats and get roughly the same amount of gold per kill - that'll allow everyone to save the potions for saving themselves and each other, while you still getting rich. If you can get one skeleton per 3 seconds for 3 hours, getting the same amount of rats should be easy. Of course it's doubtful that there's even 3200 rats down the sewers but then again, where do we have those 3200 skeletons?

[Elfric]

Where do we have those 3200 skeletons?

A Dark Lord's closet.

[RigorMortis]

It was myself and another person collecting the skeleton knuckles, I did not need a stack of 10 to recieve 250gp per one, we went from the Outpost to the Morninglordian crypts and all other undead places in between to get the skeleton knuckles. I have an appraise of 29 with items. I know I am a high leveled character I was doing this to prove a point that the prices aren't balanced in the least. Not as some sort of attack on the system. Paying 5k for a Ankh of Ptah (One Example) or other such items is rediculous and only adds to the obscene inflation(Which is a problem, It's going up faster than the U.S Dollar or the German Mark in WWII). I doubt a person could even carry a million gold pieces unless they were microscopic.

[Dread]

Inflation's just going to happen, and it's a guarantee, unless we do what some servers do and prevent selling stuff to NPC merchants altogether and have everything be sold via PC merchants... though that's infuriating in its own unique way.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

It was myself and another person collecting the skeleton knuckles, I did not need a stack of 10 to recieve 250gp per one, we went from the Outpost to the Morninglordian crypts and all other undead places in between to get the skeleton knuckles. I have an appraise of 29 with items. I know I am a high leveled character I was doing this to prove a point that the prices aren't balanced in the least. Not as some sort of attack on the system. Paying 5k for a Ankh of Ptah (One Example) or other such items is rediculous and only adds to the obscene inflation(Which is a problem, It's going up faster than the U.S Dollar or the German Mark in WWII). I doubt a person could even carry a million gold pieces unless they were microscopic.

Inflation here isn't just something that risk getting into some state of motion where it attains inertia. There's no foreign currency that capital owners can move their holdings to.

The same could be said of the current U.S. Dollar inflation, which is relatively stable and nothing like the german papiermark (which I suppose some paranoiacs somewhere propose).

On our server, there's been some revisions recently that has caused some changes here and there, but it isn't a symptom of inflation but changing the standard price of specific items. If you had read my former comments on the matter, you would realise that it's just to make these items more balanced toward other equivalent items that only differed in their base item type. Given that, I honestly don't understand why you feel that an Ankh of Ptah now costing 5k is any more ridiculous than it's former price.

Then there's the present issue with morninglordian healing tonics selling for too much - again an unforeseen consequence of the latest changes, but easily fixed. It puzzles me somewhat still though that you got 250 gp for a single tonic at the mist camp trader, as that exceeds the technical limit with a considerable margin, and that's even with the prior base value still in. Is it consistent that you can sell items to merchants at prices that are nearly the same as the price you buy the items for.

Anyway, thankfully, in the grand scheme of things, these are just minor events that have no noticeable impact on overall inflation. Especially if people don't go on mad knuckle-hunts to "prove a point" about it.

It is inevitable however, that as people get more levels they'll themselves accumulate more gold and perhaps then feel a sense of emotional inflation, especially as we don't simply want to offer high levels more and more powerful items to buy at vendors. At times, it even have some inflation-like effect when there's too many high levels around power-treasure-hauling (we've had many such periods in the past), and this is where the only real danger of inflation reside on our server - but thankfully these things tend to come and go as people realise there's more satisfying things to do here. Such as taking it easy, finding other people and roleplaying.

[dutchy]

we should take potm to the stock market, cause it's becomming that serious    -_-

[Lucadia]

Ankah of path was previously 1.5k to buy from a vendor. You don't see something
wrong with sudden price jump to 5k+? This makes it much harders on low and
new toons. You also jack!eded the prices on scrolls by 40pct or more. Sure you don't want check the system?

[Gilad Abrams]

Seeing as how players can be rather clickish towards new players sometimes getting things for the npc vendors is the only way to obtain decent items. Making them insanely expensive creates a real hardship for low lvls and non connected pcs

[Kendaric]

Ankah of path was previously 1.5k to buy from a vendor. You don't see something
wrong with sudden price jump to 5k+? This makes it much harders on low and
new toons. You also jack!eded the prices on scrolls by 40pct or more. Sure you don't want check the system?

Quite frankly, the scroll prices are perfectly ok I think. They discourage people from buying tons of scrolls, which is a good thing in my opinion.

Not sure what this "Ankh of Ptah" does, but where's the problem if it's hard to acquire/expensive? Getting 5k isn't that hard even for new players if they go rat/mink hunting regularly and do some bounties or gather herbs to sell.

[dutchy]

the ankh isnt hard to find but i did not realise that we went up more then double, i mean double the price isnt a bad thing cause we can also sell it for a bit more but 1.5 to 5k thats a very high difrance in costs.


am afraid i am going to side with the people who are thinking the loot table needs a look at price wise, cause 5k is redicilous for an item such as the ankh.

..anoyone wish to buy one mihas has one for sale just 4900 gp 

[Lucadia]

Ankah of path was previously 1.5k to buy from a vendor. You don't see something
wrong with sudden price jump to 5k+? This makes it much harders on low and
new toons. You also jack!eded the prices on scrolls by 40pct or more. Sure you don't want check the system?

Quite frankly, the scroll prices are perfectly ok I think. They discourage people from buying tons of scrolls, which is a good thing in my opinion.

Not sure what this "Ankh of Ptah" does, but where's the problem if it's hard to acquire/expensive? Getting 5k isn't that hard even for new players if they go rat/mink hunting regularly and do some bounties or gather herbs to sell.

No, this discourages those that dont have easy money making ways to not buy scrolls.
 those that already had the means can still buy mass amounts. Nothing changed other then making it harder on low levels

and since the prices of scrolls went up, so did charged items.

its been a very long time since if seen a firepipe, that would been 50 scrolls worth of potection from alignment , but snice the total cost of the item is calculated as the drop, they no longer do. sky high prices is not only affecting potion prices, but scrolls and all charged items.

[dutchy]

this effects the rpér aswell no?

someone who simply rp's would never raise the cash as one who dungeons to begin with, now that gap widens even more.
if the two would clash the rpér would lose without a doubt cause he cannot afford the gear.

this creates to much of a gap i fear, unless the loot sold price is also adjusted to balance it out (which i doubt by the sound of it)   that means only the prices rose and the long term effects will be problematic, due to low lvls not getting anywhere and those with proper builds will as usual rule the server.  (not that thats a change ofcourse)  but i am trying to say that the  "others" have an even less chance of surviving.

soren i am asking this with a respectfull tone.

have you fully in all it's aspects thought this trough?
as i said i am hearing this and seen it in the works and i am having allot of question marks with this change, this is not some new system this is altering a system allot of people are used to that, it can have bad consequences.

[Bad_Bud]

I don't like expensive potions not because I don't want to pay the price (I never like buying potions at their old prices anyway), but because they've begun replacing more interesting and useful consumables in dungeon loot.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Weren't we just a moment ago discussing that gold was too easy to accumulate?

Look, the simple reality here is just that some items (potions, torch-like items, scrolls) were factually underpriced compared to equivalent items of other types. That has been corrected and it would make no sense reverting that, it being obviously illogical.

Then, if you really feel people should be able to more easily purchase these things, we can either lower all prices on spellcasting items or make sure all people just have more gold. But that'll make those upset who are saying people already have too much gold. Not to mention the current herbalists that'll see their effort losing value.

In other words, we can't make everyone happy here. I'm sure we'll all be able to manage though, even if all changes seem daunting at first

[Kaspar]

From a merchantmans perspective I see nothing wrong with how things are currently. I believe that scrolls/items should be expensive to give value to the similar variants that drop in the loot tables, making dungeoning/treasure hunting more exciting. The only reason I can see gold being easily attainable is through ninja looting regularly, and we can't exactly touch that in any way.

I also know a new player that obtained 60,000+ gold by selling the morninglord tonics to Mad Dok for 250g each. They were giving me the impression they did it rather quickly also.  That's 240 tonics, 1200 skeletons. Jeesh!

[Lucadia]

Forgive me soren I don't think your really seeing the problem here. Not sure how
Many times I have to say this. Charged items in the loot tables reflect the price changes.
Items like shield candles and brooches are so high priced on the chart they either
replace a good drop or never drop.
Yet scrolls are easy enough get for any spell caster and rouge.
And there's nothing here stepping on the toes of herbalist.
Anakth of Path example has 7 charges of freedom that used to be 1.5k.
Your average herbalist is going sell freedom potions a mere 150-200 coin each.
Now costs over 5k for that item. No one is going gold sink into that vendor item
out of convienance while prices on this potion didn't change.

You had a flat out change to All items with spell caster levels.  Not just potions.
Players can't make darkness tonics
A single potion costs 700 coin
can buy it as a scroll for 330
or you can get a candle of darkness with 10 charges and only pay 700 total
Certainly not buying that potion but I guess they good to farm in port for selling for more now?

[Kaspar]

In my post I was referring to things -before- the prices update to potions, but not the potions themselves just the things that were inadvertently affected like the few items Lucadia has pointed out. I hope that the accidental changes could be fixed rather than being left alone.

Perhaps we can draw up a list of items that are overpriced unintentionally, and the Developers can modify their specific item values to lower the sell/buy cost?

[RedwizardD]

Or we could revert to the pricing system the was fair before?

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

You had a flat out change to All items with spell caster levels.

And how many times do I have to explicate that this is wrong?

I'll make one last effort and then leave this topic be:

1. The item cost modifier for spellcasting items were NOT changed.

2. The general item cost calculation for two base item types have been changed to simply match how all other items have their price calculated. One of them was potions, the other torch-like items (which the ankh falls under).

If someone can argue why potions should be much cheaper than equivalent items like the quintessence, I'd love to hear such argument presented but none of the above is directed at that (and I doubt such an argument could be composed.)

If people then feel that spellcasting items in general should be cheaper, I'm open to discussing that, but by now, it might make sense to start a second topic explicitly for that.

[Lucadia]

1. The item cost modifier for spellcasting items were NOT changed.

Okay so you didnt change a thing but two items and yet it ridiculous a 1.5k item went to 5k with that minor change
and with price calculation done to torches, that shield torch with 15 charges of shield would cost 10k or more on the loot table,
what was the point of adding a new item to replace shield brooches and then suddenly put them in the 1pct drop then?

 quintessence? Potions are already cheeper then they are. Assuming buying a single  quintessence, a cure serious wounds item at 1k
from the vendor, when you could go to a herbalist and easily buy them at 150 coin each. Just got 9 potions for the price of one item.
Should be the quintessence is cheeper.

Any of the potion like items such as the one with the phantasmal killer in the bottle, are now twice the price, after scroll prices went up by forty percent.

[Kaspar]

1. The item cost modifier for spellcasting items were NOT changed.

Okay so you didnt change a thing but two items and yet it ridiculous a 1.5k item went to 5k with that minor change
and with price calculation done to torches, that shield torch with 15 charges of shield would cost 10k or more on the loot table,
what was the point of adding a new item to replace shield brooches and then suddenly put them in the 1pct drop then?

I doubt it was done intentionally. 

[Bad_Bud]

To answer the question, yes, spellcasting items should be cheaper.  Prices were shifted the wrong way with the latest changes.  We've always had unreasonably priced items such as Keoghtom's Ointment and Quintessence, Keoghtom's probably the most egregious offender.  At best these are items you might use under extremely special circumstances if you found one on the floor and needed to use it before you reached the vendor.  Not items you would ever think about purchasing for, in Keoghtom's case, around 3000 gold.  3000 gold so you can cast cure light wounds, neutralize poison, or remove disease (redundant spell when there is neutralize poison)?  This item's been around for a long time and finding one was always a disappointing fact of life.  But now every spellcasting item is at this price?  A potion of antidote is over 2000 coins.  A potion of elemental warding is over 3000 coins.  We're talking about level 3 and 4 spells.  I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would be trying to pick these up.

Aye lads, we just got back from the dungeon, got us ten thousand gold coins.  Let's buy us three bottles to fend off the cold fer an hour er two.

For comparison, an amulet of cold resistance can be purchased from an NPC vendor around 5000 gold.  A potion that absorbs 40 elemental damage around 3000.  That's 40 points of damage versus an infinite amount of damage.  I couldn't say precisely at what ratio the amulet is more valuable, but I'd place it around at least a full stack of ten elemental warding potions.  If a potion of elemental warding was 500 coins I could fathom purchasing it.  I probably wouldn't purchase it, but I at least wouldn't soil my pants every time I saw one for sale.


In summary, there were always spellcasting items that cost far too much.  Previously, these were seen as disappointing "vendor trash" type items (Keoghtom's).  Items that only exist to be sold for gold, like fine paintings.  The latest change has made every spellcasting item look like this in loot.  And honestly I don't care, I'm just stating how I feel when I see prices like this.  The end result is the amount I shake my head and roll my eyes when I pick the lock on a treasure chest or open a vendor window.  But if you're asking questions like "what makes sense" in prices, I say current prices don't make sense.  Prices like that of Keoghtom's (and now potions) are something people have to waste their suspension of disbelief on.

[dutchy]

soren i have a hard time explaining this but il try.

lets say you make money X amount a month, now you can cover the 1.5k and if lucky a lil more a month  but now suddenly you have the same amount of cash but you have to cover 5k a month.

see the problem? you got more month then money, thats basicly what this update did it was not minor money wise it was a huge change money wise.

i understand that the ankh falls under a flag item and all that, no argument there.   but honestly for what these items do compared to their costs the reward vs costs is not fair at all.

so please take a look at either the prices or what these items do, and find a middle a ground.

also i agree with vasille that a list of these batshit crazy items  should be placed in order to "fix" them

[airengale]

Aye lads, we just got back from the dungeon, got us ten thousand gold coins.  Let's buy us three bottles to fend off the cold fer an hour er two.

For comparison, an amulet of cold resistance can be purchased from an NPC vendor around 5000 gold.  A potion that absorbs 40 elemental damage around 3000.  That's 40 points of damage versus an infinite amount of damage.  I couldn't say precisely at what ratio the amulet is more valuable, but I'd place it around at least a full stack of ten elemental warding potions.  If a potion of elemental warding was 500 coins I could fathom purchasing it.  I probably wouldn't purchase it, but I at least wouldn't soil my pants every time I saw one for sale.

What I believe this encourages, and the intention are with these changes was to encourage a player economy. So that someone making elemental warding wouldn't set the potion at 3000. They'd set it to something more reasonable like 500 or less. I personally would have never bought from the vendor in the first place when I could have bought from a player the same item, because the player would of course, sell it for cheaper.

This change, I see, just boosts up the value of player made items, like potions.