sky high prices...

[Bad_Bud]

Aye lads, we just got back from the dungeon, got us ten thousand gold coins.  Let's buy us three bottles to fend off the cold fer an hour er two.

For comparison, an amulet of cold resistance can be purchased from an NPC vendor around 5000 gold.  A potion that absorbs 40 elemental damage around 3000.  That's 40 points of damage versus an infinite amount of damage.  I couldn't say precisely at what ratio the amulet is more valuable, but I'd place it around at least a full stack of ten elemental warding potions.  If a potion of elemental warding was 500 coins I could fathom purchasing it.  I probably wouldn't purchase it, but I at least wouldn't soil my pants every time I saw one for sale.

What I believe this encourages, and the intention are with these changes was to encourage a player economy. So that someone making elemental warding wouldn't set the potion at 3000. They'd set it to something more reasonable like 500 or less. I personally would have never bought from the vendor in the first place when I could have bought from a player the same item, because the player would of course, sell it for cheaper.

This change, I see, just boosts up the value of player made items, like potions.

They're expensive to an extent they may as well not even exist.  Removal has the same effect on the player economy.

Prices in the crafted potion economy have nothing to do with vendor prices.

[airengale]

Because even if they don't sell it to you, potions like Morninglord Tonics that can be sold to the merchant would still end up in his inventory. What occurred with the increase in price of buying the tonic was also an increase to the value price from selling the tonic.

At least that's my understanding. So if you did find an Elemental Warding in the loot table, you'd be selling to the merchant with an increased value now. Then you can buy it back with the increased price. This was also the case with other items, now it's just being applied to Potions and Flag items.

At least that's what I'm understanding from looking at the change.

Well, look at barkskin with that latest statement. Barkskin can be made by the player and sold by the vender. I'll take a look at it. That's also true with Elemental Warding: Made by the player, and can be found by other players and sold to a merchant who can then sell it back.

[Bad_Bud]

There are places that flat out sell the multi-thousand coin potions as stock items.

[airengale]

You said earlier that taking out the item from the merchant does the same for the player economy as increasing the price considerably to where no one wants to buy it. I think that's a fine example to what happened to Barkskin, and their intention. Now they made it much easier to make barkskin potions, and increased the price at the vender so now you rely on the player economy near completely.

So why keep the merchant selling barkskin is the question? Well then I say why not keep it? If I can't find a player making those potions, and I can't bother myself to learn herbalism, and I really valued that barkskin potion then I'd rather have it available to me at the merchant NPC than not.

In other words, they're probably trying not to force you to delve into their crafting system if you don't want to, but they're definitely making it more desirable.

Btw, with terrible appraise, I can now buy barkskin at 396gp each. If I was rich I'd see myself buying that If I couldn't be bothered to look to the players around me, but I'm not so I'm going to be looking to an herbalist PC.

[Aahz]

Btw, with terrible appraise, I can now buy barkskin at 396gp each. If I was rich I'd see myself buying that If I couldn't be bothered to look to the players around me, but I'm not so I'm going to be looking to an herbalist PC.

And the players will all be selling them for 300 to 320 each.... because why wouldn't they? Basing what you charge as a merchant on what the vendors sell them for is pretty standard. You just need a price less than what it would cost a player from a vendor and then get as much as you can get away with. If the item is not available from a vendor then the sky is the limit.... Unless you are competing with another player selling the same thing. However the key to competing with another player is availability. If someone is selling something cheaper than you are but no one can find them, its not really bothering you then is it? The complaint I hear over and over again is that some people have a hard enough time finding ANYONE selling what they are looking for, let alone one with the best prices.

[airengale]

And the players will all be selling them for 300 to 320 each.... because why wouldn't they? Unless you are competing with another player selling the same thing.

However the key to competing with another player is availability. If someone is selling something cheaper than you are but no one can find them, its not really bothering you then is it?

The key is met. The herbalist craft is available to all people. It'd probably be a different argument for flag items, but I haven't seen it be brought up.

The complaint I hear over and over again is that some people have a hard enough time finding ANYONE selling what they are looking for, let alone one with the best prices.

That's a shame for them. I know several people who are master herbalists. Moments ago I just recalled someone in game mentioning how herbalism isn't really a worth while buisness. This change will certainly help that out, because now wouldn't there be people searching for a barkskin vender?

[Avatar6666]

Yes this has hurt the merchant business. It hurts because My potions sell for r1GP a piece as a merchant and the merchants sell for 300-400 gold apiece. I think the old way was a little better. its hurting the new player because it is hard to charge 50 gold pieces for something to a level 2 when they can go find that potion in a cysts and make 10 times what they bought for it.
 So why buy or do herbalism anymore....Sad but true.

[HellsPanda]

That doesn't compute Avatar

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

I'm glad some people actually do get what I'm saying here and what the nature of the latest changes have been. I'm very open to debating whether the general cost of spell casting items should be lower, but am I the only one thinking it would be better if we opened a new forum thread with this topic explicitly?

[Kaspar]

but am I the only one thinking it would be better if we opened a new forum thread with this topic explicitly?

 

[Aahz]

That's a shame for them. I know several people who are master herbalists. Moments ago I just recalled someone in game mentioning how herbalism isn't really a worth while buisness. This change will certainly help that out, because now wouldn't there be people searching for a barkskin vender?

I've seen a lot more herbalists who just make potions for themselves and their friends than ones who try and sell them. Mostly I believe because they got frustrated on not being able to find a PC merchant and/or do not want to have to be dependent on them. 

[airengale]

That's probably true. People who are herbalist aren't obligated to sell their potions.

What other way do you propose to stimulate this player economy concerning potions? I still think this change helps, though.


To be clear, this argument above is arguing the point of why changing the prices in the first place. While a new argument that Soren is looking at is whether or not the price should be adjusted lower for general spell casting items.

[dutchy]

I'm glad some people actually do get what I'm saying here and what the nature of the latest changes have been. I'm very open to debating whether the general cost of spell casting items should be lower, but am I the only one thinking it would be better if we opened a new forum thread with this topic explicitly?

meh we are already at it here for a few pages so it doesnt seem needed.

i get that you upped the prices and i get that potions should not be easy to get as we can use the arguments low magic setting argument aswell as the promoting player trade.

but if you charge allot at a npc vendor it is only a matter of time that the players will charge more for their potions cause they can, aslong they stay under the npc price people will always buy from a pc.
but this can have the effect allot gets more expensive player trade wise cause those pc merchants wish to buy things and need more money to buy it from a npc, and so the prices rise all around, all long term scenario ofcourse.

am glad you are still open for the discussion on wheter or not there should be some sort of compremise somewhere.

[-narwhal-]

Traps... i really think atleast minor traps should be much more cheaper.. because a low lvl rogue just cannot afford them.. or am i wrong ?

[Avatar6666]

My 13th level rogue can not afford them, Since when can you not recover traps from dungeons....???

[Ercvadasz]

My 13th level rogue can not afford them, Since when can you not recover traps from dungeons....???

I think you can still recover traps, about 2 months or so ago, i have bought recovered traps from a player, and i never had problems to buy strong traps.
You just have to find the right NPC who sells them.

[HellsPanda]

You can also craft them

[BahamutZ3RO]

I recovered a trap a couple of days ago.

[FullMoon]

Traps... i really think atleast minor traps should be much more cheaper.. because a low lvl rogue just cannot afford them.. or am i wrong ?

I found minor spike traps affordable.

To me this potion issue is being overblown . I see why they want to make people depend on other players for trade. The only thing I found inconvenient is Lore potion prices because getting things identified usually costs more than the item is worth. To my knowledge players can't make Lore potions can they ?

[BahamutZ3RO]

Traps... i really think atleast minor traps should be much more cheaper.. because a low lvl rogue just cannot afford them.. or am i wrong ?

I found minor spike traps affordable.

To me this potion issue is being overblown . I see why they want to make people depend on other players for trade. The only thing I found inconvenient is Lore potion prices because getting things identified usually costs more than the item is worth. To my knowledge players can't make Lore potions can they ?

This is why Bruhm keeps every Book of Thoth he finds. <_<

[HellsPanda]

Make friends with a lore char.

[Dread]

Bards are your friends.

[FullMoon]

Make friends with a lore char.

No doubt you mean well but obviously you do not always have access to certain characters/types 24/7. This is only an inconvenience when you have heavy items and don't want to be encumbered at that moment. I know when I first came here my friends and I at the time ended up throwing away unknown items because we couldn't find anyone to identify them and we lost money on the cost to identify vs sale price to npc merchant.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=32247.0

[Kaspar]

Traps... i really think atleast minor traps should be much more cheaper.. because a low lvl rogue just cannot afford them.. or am i wrong ?

I found minor spike traps affordable.

To me this potion issue is being overblown . I see why they want to make people depend on other players for trade. The only thing I found inconvenient is Lore potion prices because getting things identified usually costs more than the item is worth. To my knowledge players can't make Lore potions can they ?

This is why Bruhm keeps every Book of Thoth he finds. <_<

Or you can invest into two +5 lore rings which I was able to attain at level 5. ^.^