Author Topic: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.  (Read 7193 times)

Geiger

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Re: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.
« Reply #75 on: January 17, 2013, 04:48:31 PM »
War hounds would be swag, too.

RigorMortis

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Re: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.
« Reply #76 on: January 17, 2013, 05:18:16 PM »
Once it was 1.5k a bag now its 2k or more.

As far as I know it's always been 2k. Jinx charged less because Jinx, but before then (and in everything I saw written from before I joined) it was 2k.

I think the baffling thing about this thread is the insane gear people are asking for their faction. I mean, really clerics? You guys can faceroll and win the game. Rogues are based around how much they can boost their skills, they are hands down the most gear-reliant class. It costs around 200k to gear out a rogue. Valkan's boots cost me over 100k alone. Vardo gear isn't best-in-slot equipment for most things, but it offers a starting point for rogues. It just makes sense to me that a faction would supply the tools for its members to be able to succeed at what the faction is supposed to be about.

Like, let's stop talking about the Vardo for a moment. If other factions could have skills on their gear, since that's what this is about-- Skill points on gear, what would those skills be? For cleric factions, would +3 healing and concentration suddenly make your gear more awesome?

In my post I was not demanding we have the same gear, rather that this gear seems to be too readily available to other Outlanders that disrespect the Faith of the object they hold, or use it against the faction by demanding that they are better for having the object.

It isn't about the awsomeness of gear, it just seems that the vardo comes with, just as you said, Starting equipment for each and every slot, no other faction has this benefit, not only that but thier toolset is almost completely universal. I stated that I only wished that not only would people show more respect towards the Morninglordian's faction items, as of right now, they are everyone and almost none of them are carried by morninglordians.

Norture

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Re: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.
« Reply #77 on: January 17, 2013, 06:00:57 PM »
Vardo gear is most certainly not universal. It's for thieves. Lockpicking is for breaking into things. Setting and disarming traps aren't universal either. Pickpocketing isn't universal.

Misted_Horror

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Re: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.
« Reply #78 on: January 17, 2013, 06:07:07 PM »
Vardo gear is most certainly not universal. It's for thieves. Lockpicking is for breaking into things. Setting and disarming traps aren't universal either. Pickpocketing isn't universal.

Exactly, also worth noting you don't simply get it given to you either, like the old days, as was said earlier.

Sidhel

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Re: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.
« Reply #79 on: January 17, 2013, 07:20:00 PM »
Vardo gear is most certainly not universal. It's for thieves. Lockpicking is for breaking into things. Setting and disarming traps aren't universal either. Pickpocketing isn't universal.

Exactly, also worth noting you don't simply get it given to you either, like the old days, as was said earlier.

I'd be more worried about nerfing the oh-so-overpowered enchanted gear before even taking a look at Vardo's rogue-specific stuff. I'd love me a full set of +21/+11/+11 saves.
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Geiger

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Re: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.
« Reply #80 on: January 17, 2013, 07:25:00 PM »
Please take that to the enchant thread. That is its own set thing and must be discussed separately. If you could be so kind.


BalorVale

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Re: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.
« Reply #81 on: January 17, 2013, 08:24:13 PM »
Vardo gear is most certainly not universal. It's for thieves. Lockpicking is for breaking into things. Setting and disarming traps aren't universal either. Pickpocketing isn't universal.

Lockpicking is picked up by almost every character on the server with spare skillpoints. Almost no other skill is done in the same manner so vigorously cross-classed. Do not deny that lockpicking is not universal, it is as universal and even more useful then the skills "heal" and even moreso than Influence. Because other then hiding from the NPC Garda, not many people acknowledge social rolls, myself included.

dutchy

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Re: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.
« Reply #82 on: January 17, 2013, 10:35:11 PM »
we all cannot deny what balor said but to be the devils advocate.

have we seen what crowbars and some str do?  it breaks more then it opens.

also i figured that nearly all blades in the loot table are these day's +1's   how does that compare to faction gear?  i wouldnt even wipe my butt with a guard halberd (not that thats smart thing to do cause of the sharpness)

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Geiger

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Re: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.
« Reply #83 on: January 18, 2013, 09:25:24 AM »
I updated the first post with a clearer idea from me that I have developed throughout the course of this thread. I also would urge to focus less on the Vardo because of how they feel about the faction, but more on how equipment in factions in general might need be looked at. The Vardo themselves haven't done anything wrong, no one has - but there may be a point to be had about general faction balance and development. :)

Zhernebog

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Re: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.
« Reply #84 on: January 18, 2013, 04:53:25 PM »
we all cannot deny what balor said but to be the devils advocate.

have we seen what crowbars and some str do?  it breaks more then it opens.

also i figured that nearly all blades in the loot table are these day's +1's   how does that compare to faction gear?  i wouldnt even wipe my butt with a guard halberd (not that thats smart thing to do cause of the sharpness)
Sidenote but I would like to see the str checks moved down or less items broken. Unfortunately most of the nicest stuff is breakable.

That being said, how would we assist the garda faction?

Legion XXI

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Re: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.
« Reply #85 on: January 18, 2013, 05:18:42 PM »

Sidenote but I would like to see the str checks moved down or less items broken. Unfortunately most of the nicest stuff is breakable.


   In that case, I want AC and AB of spawns lowered where they are easier to defeat as a non-frontline class.  Sometimes my non-full-ab-progression-character has trouble defeating some of the harder enemies by himself, and I don't want to party up with tanks or hitters, I want to be able to solo the whole dungeon so I can get both the chests AND the xp.

  With that in mind, I would say that the reason things like this exist are so that you can team up with (in this case) rogues to get what you want.  This is not just about rogues, but since that is the recurring topic i'll indulge you.   Rogues have a lot of their power in skill points.  It's why they get so many, and why so many skills are available to them.  By allowing other classes to get the same result (picking locks) without any of the skill points or items other than a crowbar and the high STR you already had, you are taking that away from them.  I'm glad items break on fail, it provides a much needed drawback to brute force.  I think parties should have to bring along a lock picker and trap handler to get higher end loot.  I mean, as a rogue, I have to bring a whole team of other people to kill things in the higher level areas and get xp.   It's basic teamwork.

   I personally like that some factions are given certain gear in able to be better at something.  It's not WAY better, just a little better.  I know plenty of people that can hit the highest DC locks without the Vardo gear.  Just like plenty of clerics are going to do just fine without the top-end religious items.

dutchy

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Re: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.
« Reply #86 on: January 18, 2013, 05:28:10 PM »
we all cannot deny what balor said but to be the devils advocate.

have we seen what crowbars and some str do?  it breaks more then it opens.

also i figured that nearly all blades in the loot table are these day's +1's   how does that compare to faction gear?  i wouldnt even wipe my butt with a guard halberd (not that thats smart thing to do cause of the sharpness)
Sidenote but I would like to see the str checks moved down or less items broken. Unfortunately most of the nicest stuff is breakable.

That being said, how would we assist the garda faction?

for example in the past a guard or an outsider  contacted the guards and created a helmet as they lacked one and now they have helmets with additional bonuses.

my advice is if your a master smith or somthing " create"  something trough rp and request it as an item and it might be adapted into the gear of a faction that way you somehow do sort of leave a legacy :)

as for legion- zhern and i  where talking about the fact allot of chars have a rogue lvl or atleast open lock cause str checks break to much and is thus a louwsy thing to have and open lock is a serious investment on this server.

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Mihas Mandruleanu- He is the law
Gurdan- priest of the allfather, and current head of the silverhand trading company

Zhernebog

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Re: Faction Gear, Faction Balance, and a few ideas.
« Reply #87 on: January 18, 2013, 08:22:18 PM »

Sidenote but I would like to see the str checks moved down or less items broken. Unfortunately most of the nicest stuff is breakable.


   In that case, I want AC and AB of spawns lowered where they are easier to defeat as a non-frontline class.  Sometimes my non-full-ab-progression-character has trouble defeating some of the harder enemies by himself, and I don't want to party up with tanks or hitters, I want to be able to solo the whole dungeon so I can get both the chests AND the xp.

  With that in mind, I would say that the reason things like this exist are so that you can team up with (in this case) rogues to get what you want.  This is not just about rogues, but since that is the recurring topic i'll indulge you.   Rogues have a lot of their power in skill points.  It's why they get so many, and why so many skills are available to them.  By allowing other classes to get the same result (picking locks) without any of the skill points or items other than a crowbar and the high STR you already had, you are taking that away from them.  I'm glad items break on fail, it provides a much needed drawback to brute force.  I think parties should have to bring along a lock picker and trap handler to get higher end loot.  I mean, as a rogue, I have to bring a whole team of other people to kill things in the higher level areas and get xp.   It's basic teamwork.

   I personally like that some factions are given certain gear in able to be better at something.  It's not WAY better, just a little better.  I know plenty of people that can hit the highest DC locks without the Vardo gear.  Just like plenty of clerics are going to do just fine without the top-end religious items.
If I want to even get to chests in a dungeon, I need a team. You do not.
I'm saying with the overabundance and availability of lockpicking, high str characters are shoehorned into losing points in battle skills(discipline/antagonize/etc) in favor of lockpicking since the str check is so incredibly worthless on anything but doors. And that's only because doors don't hold fragile items. The give-and-take of opting for the str check would be great, if the deck wasn't so ridiculously stacked against using it. You're playing russian roulette with five bullets. You always get a roll, but either you break everything or you get nothing...because you broke everything.
Why don't we apply the break chance to lockpicking as well? That way characters(Read:Nearly everyone) who opted to use their abundance of skillpoints instead of spending statistics in strength have a balanced playing field?

I mean the flow of progression is tipped in your favor.
Rogue: Ninjaloot->Become statistically/monetarily stronger->actively work in a party, or invisibly follow one around on the hide/sneak multiplane
Warrior: Party up->become statistically stronger->Party up
We should not be rewarding skill dumping more than teamwork.