Author Topic: Feint  (Read 6348 times)

Ipes

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Re: Feint
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2013, 04:27:02 PM »
Okay, then let's get this topic back on track. Why is a feint option a bad idea?

1) New ability that has to be scripted. The server has enough unique scripts as is.

2) Another ability given to one or two specific classes.

3) It would be opposed by a skill which the majority of classes do not have access too. Unless we bend things a little and make it opposed by Concentration.

4) It would be a one round ability in which the animation triggers, thus leaving the rogue flat footed for that one round and less attacks going out from your character. (Similar to taunt)

5) At first implementation this would be riddled with glitches and there are enough bugs that need to be fixed as is.

6) It would ultimately give rogues ONE extra sneak attack. You can get sneak attack enough ways already.

7) We have taunt which can nerf an opponents AC by a maximum of 6 points. That is pretty potent already and pretty 'rouge-ish'. What's more Han Solo than talking smack in a brawl?

8) This would probably require new feats and items and the server has enough of those already.

9) Very open to abuse and as Zhernebog pointed out already, the players can't be trusted with the catfish and monkey barrels, so why give them something else?

Now, why would it be a good idea?

1) Another option.

2) I've seen feint do some pretty devastating things in the hands of high charisma and strength based rogues in my Dungeons and Dragons games.

3) It would be something new and unique that has not been done on other servers.

4) It would make Improved Initiative even more useless than it already is. (Has anyone ever taken that feat in NWN history?)


I'm going to respond to your idiotic post.
1) The server doesn't have "too many scripts", the same could be said for all nw content that is going to be added in.
2) The way Dungeons and Dragons is made is so that each class is different and unique, they're supposed to have a variety of abilities to better differentiate them from others of the same class, not all Rogues should be the same, adding in the feint ability will alllow the rogues to max a completely different stat which will change the shape of their build entirely.
3) Concentration wouldn't make any sense.
4) What does the animation or how many attacks per round it give have to do with anything?
5) All new content is bound to be buggy in one way or another, and having as many players on as we do now is a good way to playtest for these bugs.
6) There really isn't enough ways to get sneak attacks at all, the more diversity you have in a class the better, a Rogue can't land a knockdown for his low AB, the only way you'd be able to proc sneak attacks after your first one would be if you had some sort of paralysis trap, and not every rogue has to be a trapsmith.
7) Taunt is completely different from Feint, I suggest you read up on stuff before you write about it.
8 ) There's never enough feats, as stated above the more content in a game the better, thats the reason why there is so many D&D books.
9) Any player can do anything to break the IC rules, I could make a character and call him "Dicks" And go around spamming profanity and that would break the atmosphere harder.

As for your other reasons on why we should have it, you've missed the point entirely.

DangerousToGoAlone

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Re: Feint
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2013, 04:34:56 PM »

How does Improved Initiative come into play? Because if you attack first...you get sneak attack.


Improved Initiative makes no damn difference because Sneak Attacks are made as part of a "Surprise Round" if you actually played DND you would know what "Surprise Round" is. Initiative is rolled AFTER a surprise round. I thought you played DND? The only time sneak attacks aren't made as part of a suprise is in moments like Feint, flanking, and flatfooted opponents.



After the suprise round, if the rogue has higher initiative than the opponent, he still gets sneak attacks. You are considered flatfooted untill your first initiative turn. So improved initiative makes -alot- of difference, as it means the rogue has a higher chance to get 2 rounds of attacks, rather than 1, in the suprise round. Double the sneak attacks.
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Ovidiu_Lacusta

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Re: Feint
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2013, 04:39:42 PM »
That might come down to a matter of opinion, I know some rogues who swear by Improved Initiative, but I have never taken the feat myself and have been quite effective without it.

Ovidiu_Lacusta

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Re: Feint
« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2013, 04:42:17 PM »
In Pen and Paper terms, I should be able to fit in more sneak attacks in the first round of combat, since that's the first "Full Round" and the "Surprise round" only allows time for a standard action.  Something is rotten in Denmark because the "surprise round" isn't "shortened" in NWN, I don't know, I'm able to get all my killing done before Initiative rolls.  If you then win initiative, it's home free.

Snowflame

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Re: Feint
« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2013, 05:12:27 PM »
That might come down to a matter of opinion, I know some rogues who swear by Improved Initiative, but I have never taken the feat myself and have been quite effective without it.

Of course you have, because it doesn't make any real difference. It never does. Also when you are dex based you don't really need improved initiative because you are already going to have a very good initiative roll. that's like cleric taking iron will it's a waste, you're already going to be phenomenal there so you don't need it. So even if it were true, it wouldn't help'em.

Crimson Shuriken

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Re: Feint
« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2013, 09:24:20 PM »
Its not totally without use, its just a hedge of bet feat choice.  Its a feat choice sort of like Great Cleave, mostly useless, but mostly useless and totally useless are not the same thing.  Winning the initiative has the potential to give a rogue two volleys worth (four attack rolls) of sneak attack damage out of stealth so its somewhat useful just not as much as other feats and no class is as hard pressed for feats as a rogue on PotM.


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LackofCertainty

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Re: Feint
« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2013, 09:27:42 PM »
Dev work always is a factor in whether an idea is worth implementing or not, because the devs have to do work to implement the systems.  Unless an idea is personally championed by a dev, you have to convince them why they should take time away from what they are doing/want to do to instead implement your system.  If you're not going to count the added work they have to do to implement a feint system, you come off as a bit of a jerk, imo.

Posting a textbook sized response complete with images to taunt the person who you're replying to also makes you look like a jerk. (or at least a child who is in need of a time-out)  If you want to counter the person's post, point by point, that's fine, but there's no reason to be nasty about it.


6) There really isn't enough ways to get sneak attacks at all, the more diversity you have in a class the better, a Rogue can't land a knockdown for his low AB, the only way you'd be able to proc sneak attacks after your first one would be if you had some sort of paralysis trap, and not every rogue has to be a trapsmith.

There are lots of ways to get sneak attacks, especially when you're in a party.  As I mentioned in my previous post, the simplest one being to step around your tank and reengage when the mob switches to attack them. 

The server isn't balanced for solo play, but even if you're talking as a solo'ing rogue, there are -lots- of ways to get sneak attacks.  (corner sneaking, bottled black, and umd'ing various spells to name a few)  Just because rogue's don't have a giant "Give me sneak attack" button built into the character doesn't mean it's impossible to get them. :)

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Re: Feint
« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2013, 09:54:09 PM »
I'm locking this topic as it's been pretty ugly for a while now. The idea has some merit, but as has been mentioned, developing time is fairly limited and we can't do everything. If it spikes/spiked a member of the development team's interest, then it may get added depending on the feasibility. Adding feats and skills is no easy task and requires both scripting and hak updates.