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Author Topic: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.  (Read 9127 times)

Ipes

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2013, 07:59:46 PM »
I actually think adding these two items to the server are the worst thing I've ever seen, and the fact that you guys didn't even test it to get it working properly before you put it in is dumb. It has already caused alot more grief than it will ever make up for in practical use. If you want these catfish add them as spawn to some areas, I've seen places in Hazlan and other spots that are desolate of any hostile npcs, and could use something like that. Furthermore adding in something so easily abusable with no OOC or IC warning what so ever, and then blaming us for finding out it's against the rules for putting them down, I mean the catfish are huge.

kalcibone

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2013, 08:02:11 PM »
The main issue I see is people using them then people claiming it was an OOC reason as well as causing bans BECAUSE the item did what it was made to, either it should be removed to stop said issues altogether or they should not complain because they WILL get people using it since it is a usable item. Joke item or not it has already caused many OOC issues, including temp bans & people attacking eachother OOC.

Ipes

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2013, 08:04:52 PM »
I'm in total agreement kalcibone, they denied my shifter application because "This is because the Shifter class is very easily abuseable in a manner that is detrimental to the setting atmosphere and you have displayed behaviour on characters such as Scox and with items such as Barrel of Monkeys suggesting that you would not use the Shifter class in a responsible manner." That was the only reason my app was denied, it was pretty well written.

Amon-Si

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2013, 08:11:10 PM »
I'm in total agreement kalcibone, they denied my shifter application because "This is because the Shifter class is very easily abuseable in a manner that is detrimental to the setting atmosphere and you have displayed behaviour on characters such as Scox and with items such as Barrel of Monkeys suggesting that you would not use the Shifter class in a responsible manner." That was the only reason my app was denied, it was pretty well written.


So... not to get personal here, but you object to this item because you abused it previously (possibly unknowingly) and it cost you a character application for the least granted class on the server? I can understand that, but again, the root is perhaps in your own behaviour.
I don't really like these items, and I wouldn't personally use them, but when they're here and when they are used, it's our own responsibility to look ahead and think "Is this action going to bite me in the ass like a carnivorous ape riding a giant catfish?" and act accordingly :)

Sorry for the semi-derailment, but you all know I can't help myself.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 08:13:21 PM by Amon-Si »

Ipes

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2013, 08:15:42 PM »
I abused it like a Caliban would.

Amon-Si

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2013, 08:19:35 PM »
I abused it like a Caliban would.

An easy source of food?

Ipes

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2013, 08:21:31 PM »
Yep, and to mess with the topsiders.

Ovidiu_Lacusta

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2013, 08:35:05 PM »
I can definitely see a Caliban or even some Gnome Outlander, or any of the wide multitude of PCs that seem to play only for humor's sake, impishly enjoying using these items ICly.

However, I see so many PCs that play only for humor, it's almost as if "Gothic Relief" happens to punctuate the relentless comedies.

Given a tool like these new items... Well, none of my PCs have any reason to touch them, so they won't.


Kaspar

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2013, 08:37:13 PM »
To see a dozen or two giant catfish flying around shatters the atmosphere.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 08:46:39 PM by Vasile »

Amon-Si

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2013, 08:39:30 PM »
Yep, and to mess with the topsiders.
It's easy to break rule #1 with these- Impairing the role play of others. To see a dozen or two giant catfish flying around shatters the atmosphere.

Also, they count as a summon for the purposes of PvP, so if Messing with topsiders means leaving them about, you better hostile the whole server.

Ipes

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2013, 08:42:01 PM »
It's just a rediculous idea altogether, why would anyone want to put this in the game? As for gothic horror, I really think the atmosphere is no where close, diminished completely already by ignorant players. The fact that they aren't hostile to anyone is the most broken part, they are just harmless lambs to the slaughter.

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2013, 08:59:55 PM »
Time to collect on some bet money~

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airengale

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2013, 09:03:32 PM »
I have to agree.

The first time I saw the catfish dead and still laying about, I thought it very detrimental to the atmosphere. They were in strange places, and you had to just ignore them. Secondly the monkey in a barrel, I can't even imagine what use it has and how one would go about using it. Fifty charges with a 100 pounds to carry it around. Even for just a one time use, it doesn't make sense to me.

Not that someone can't make sense of how to use it, but so far I've only heard and seen it cause grief more than story or any atmosphere even when sincerely used to do so.

I certainly can live without these in the server.

Edit: The only solution I gave was to remove them, but it's really over my head in terms with its purpose as a cursed item. I've seen the Doll in use before by an AMPC wight that summoned it to aid him. It caused a distraction for us long enough for someone to get near him, as the doll had attacked him and he was too busy trying to get it to attack us but couldn't. It caused a rewarding comical moment in the scene that wasn't too detrimental, and it passed quickly. These monkeys and catfish, however, seem to be a little too over the top.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 09:10:37 PM by airengale »


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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2013, 09:24:37 PM »
It's like a Tarokka plot gone awry....

Actually, there's an idea. I like the idea of an item used for a distraction or to aid horror encounters, would it be possible to have an item that summons a various sort of animated object depending on the sort of zone the person is in? Like if they're indoors, it could summon an animated table or chair. Outdoors, a scarecrow. In a cave, a pile of rocks. RPly the spell could be that it animates a nearby object. That would be pretty fun for flavour.

RigorMortis

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2013, 09:38:38 PM »
The use I have found out of these items is as follows;

- When I need a distraction, much like a summon to gtfo of where I'm at with relative safety.

-Use to block passages from my enemies, the catfish make perfect walls.

 Limiting the charges has already been priority #1 it seems, we need to give Blue some breathing room. It probably takes a long time to code these sort of things and package it into an update.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath, it's obvious he understands and hears your concerns, and stop taking it so personally.

Snowflame

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2013, 11:27:20 PM »
The main issue I see is people using them then people claiming it was an OOC reason as well as causing bans BECAUSE the item did what it was made to, either it should be removed to stop said issues altogether or they should not complain because they WILL get people using it since it is a usable item. Joke item or not it has already caused many OOC issues, including temp bans & people attacking eachother OOC.

^ This. Just this.

In all seriousness though should this item even exist in this type of setting? I mean we get lucky if we find anything that's like +1. The setting is low magic... these things they summon animals and stuff like 50 times in a jar. I mean this would make a good rare drop/artifact from like an undead prankster or something. but something that's common or even simply "Less Common" kind of bends the setting some at least in my honest oppinion. Everything has + sides and - Sides. Sometimes good items fall into the hands of wild and crazy characters who will use it in their own way. The fish can be used to save a village from raiders or it could be used to raid a village. It's a double edgesword. It's just spawning stuff, like pretty powerful and useful stuff, very useful. too useful. I'm not even sure such an item like this exists even in high magic settings like ebberron.

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2013, 11:44:33 PM »
To be honest... I'm just blatantly ignoring them. I run into these apes and catfish all over the place and just pretend they aren't there. I'm not really sure what their purpose is on the server, but they pretty much shatter immersion for me. : )
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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2013, 11:55:43 PM »
I actually think adding these two items to the server are the worst thing I've ever seen, and the fact that you guys didn't even test it to get it working properly before you put it in is dumb. It has already caused alot more grief than it will ever make up for in practical use. If you want these catfish add them as spawn to some areas, I've seen places in Hazlan and other spots that are desolate of any hostile npcs, and could use something like that. Furthermore adding in something so easily abusable with no OOC or IC warning what so ever, and then blaming us for finding out it's against the rules for putting them down, I mean the catfish are huge.
Considering you were one of the people abusing it and did nothing to report the bugs/problems, I think you should consider yourself lucky that you were not banned as well.

The items were not working as intended, the item's description lays out clearly how they were supposed to work, and if you knew the summoned creatures weren't hostile like it says in the description, then you should have filed a bug report sooner so it would be fixed instead of continuing to use it.

So it comes off as rather hypocritical of you to complain about the item causing grief when you were one of the people causing that grief.

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kalcibone

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2013, 01:11:00 AM »
Considering you were one of the people abusing it and did nothing to report the bugs/problems, I think you should consider yourself lucky that you were not banned as well.

The items were not working as intended, the item's description lays out clearly how they were supposed to work, and if you knew the summoned creatures weren't hostile like it says in the description, then you should have filed a bug report sooner so it would be fixed instead of continuing to use it.

So it comes off as rather hypocritical of you to complain about the item causing grief when you were one of the people causing that grief.

Honestly I am glad he made it come to light how stupid and useless these items are.  ya. they CAN have a use.. if this wasn't a roleplay server. Seriously, get rid em of please. it causes nothing but issues between people and DM's.

Lockleed

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2013, 04:38:55 AM »
The catfish models are persistant after death, and ludicrously oversized.  They're almost as big as the Aboleth model.

I've seen carnivorous apes all over the Port, thought it was a ... very bizarre DM plot till I found out about the items. 

I just can't see these being used immersivelly.

Zhernebog

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2013, 05:16:52 AM »
I want the next summoning item to summon giant killer tomatoes. They'll fit right in with the airfish.

Honoun

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2013, 05:18:46 AM »
Oh yes please, Bring on the Giant Killer Tomatoes  :mrgreen:

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2013, 06:34:16 AM »
Let's not ridicule an earnest attempt to provide something for us all. I think the point has been made clear by now :)

I think we'll reflect on it dev-wise and see how we can take the concerns into account.

Feronius

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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2013, 08:09:37 AM »
Let's not ridicule an earnest attempt to provide something for us all. I think the point has been made clear by now :)

I think we'll reflect on it dev-wise and see how we can take the concerns into account.

Thank you for the consideration, I fully understand someone put work into these items.


And I would personally love to see the script used in a different variant. Like a reckless necromancer tome or cursed object that summons lower level (smaller) bone bats or ghosts of which the owner has no direct control over. Or a similar thing with demons, magically animated objects or something else that fits the setting better. The script and item itself still have brilliant potential when the charges, spawns (and their size) and possibly the weight are reduced. I'd love to see the item script put to use in a way more contributing to the atmosphere of the server, rather than a prank item, as the script deserves to be used for more than that.

On a sidenote, like I said, most of the other new items are a pleasant addition to the server.
Reading the description on that Falkovnian wine-bread was wonderful. And I admire the weapons from other parts of the Core, like the Borcan Stiletto.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 08:13:25 AM by Grimson »
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Re: Kettle of Fish, Barrel of Monkeys.
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2013, 08:10:14 AM »
I do agree that they are pretty immersion shattering, and do reckon they should be taken out.

But i suppose limiting them to a handful of uses is a good enough step.