Author Topic: Mist Camp Caravans  (Read 17923 times)

Darkelf30420

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2013, 04:37:58 PM »
I used the mist camp caravan twice now in my like three years playing, give or take a few.  I find myself stuck in Valliki, that is what stopped my first time playing here as I felt the sever was way too small, or rather limited.

Now i find that unless you are farming a dungeon no one is willing to leave the "safety" of the city.  I had a character that just wanted to see what is out there.

I think adding a transit to other domains near Valliki would do wonders to help players find more places to go and things to do.  And it just might, and I do mean just might, stop people from just doing crypt runs every spawn, with more options other than what is easiest to access.

Fen'lo Taaran

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2013, 04:40:18 PM »
AFAIK, Soren is/was implementing Mistways. ;)

Major Tom

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2013, 04:43:51 PM »
Why don't people just lower the price of the ferry to Midway btw? That will half the traveling time.
I never quite got why it was so expensive to begin with, especially since none of the deliveries in that direction are even remotely worth the trouble.

Prices went up when the server shifted to a player-economy, due to farming and everyone, even a level 5, being able to make 10,000 in under a week.

'Course, the posts thusfar in the thread have already established my original post's point: Best give up on this course of action, as it will never be considered.

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Fen'lo Taaran

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2013, 04:47:53 PM »
Why don't people just lower the price of the ferry to Midway btw? That will half the traveling time.
I never quite got why it was so expensive to begin with, especially since none of the deliveries in that direction are even remotely worth the trouble.

Prices went up when the server shifted to a player-economy, due to farming and everyone, even a level 5, being able to make 10,000 in under a week.

'Course, the posts thusfar in the thread have already established my original post's point: Best give up on this course of action, as it will never be considered.

Ever thought that perhaps some people actually like things the way they are? Stop being so damned negative and "woe is me" and maybe people will actually appreciate the things you say instead of contemplating handing you a razor-blade and a diary.

Major Tom

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2013, 04:50:58 PM »
I'm sorry that my realistic outlook on the likelihood of implementing ideas such as this dampens your sense of superiority over other players that struggle with enjoying themselves. From now on I shall make the effort to lie whenever you are in a thread and encourage false hope, so that you don't need to consider these things.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 04:54:06 PM by Major Tom »

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."

Fen'lo Taaran

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2013, 04:52:22 PM »
As opposed to your sense of self-titled superiority? Everyone has things they prefer and if you cannot understand it, please get help.

Major Tom

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2013, 04:55:07 PM »
I wasn't aware that my posts implied superiority. My deepest apologies.

That being said, I retract my former statements; Reach for the stars, Ehver. This idea is a 100% shoe-in for DM consideration. Pay no heed to the horde of players currently thriving in the conditions that you and others like yourself find to be lacking in enjoyment, as it's guaranteed that the staff will give this matter the full attention that you, personally, feel it deserves.

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."

Iconoclast

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2013, 04:57:50 PM »


Major Tom, please take a break from posting.

Ehver

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2013, 05:00:35 PM »
I wasn't aware that my posts implied superiority. My deepest apologies.

That being said, I retract my former statements; Reach for the stars, Ehver. This idea is a 100% shoe-in for DM consideration. Pay no heed to the horde of players currently thriving in the conditions that you and others like yourself find to be lacking in enjoyment, as it's guaranteed that the staff will give this matter the full attention that you, personally, feel it deserves.

No need to get rude. : ) A suggestion is just that - a suggestion. I am not at all railing against the system and demanding that things be changed immediately or else - gosh darn it - I'll quit the server! *shakes fist* I am well aware that there are some people that like things as they are - they have stated so in this forum - and I am also aware that there are many who don't like them as they are. I already stated at the beginning of my thread that I wasn't expecting things to change, but was willing to put my opinions forward nonetheless.

So please try not to insult me by implying I am demanding that the server conform to my desires in every possible way regardless of the opinions of the people around me, because that was not the intention at all. If it came across that way, well... I'm sorry. Again, not the intention.
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Ovidiu_Lacusta

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2013, 05:06:00 PM »
It is always a comparison of apples to oranges.

The other game to play gives you instant gratification, but does not offer many of the flavors presented by PoTM.

PoTM offers the very different flavor of non-instant gratification, it does not taste the same as the apples one would expect.

Instead of trying to savour, and appreciate the Vision and Focus of this artwork - it is compared to a more convenient game, calling it "obnoxious, ridiculous" and so many other disparaging words, it smacks of ungratefulness for the vision that you are unwilling to perceive, unwilling to participate in, "because your time is too valuable."  Someone took longer than 10 minutes designing those areas that you complain about walking through.

I hear so much negative review of Diablo 3 for instance.  A game in which you can swiftly travel between the acts with 0 inconvenience - yet it sounds like what some people would want Prisoners of the Mist to become.  "Clicky clicky, I only have a half hour and I'm close to level, man, I can't -believe- someone made this road so long as to personally inconvenience me in my limited gaming time."

I have never seen the Server Community or Admin say "stuff it" to an idea, but I have frequently over the years seen people show up and make suggestions based on self entitlement that reek of snide, poorly veiled hostility at the builder's intentions, hatred of other classes archetypes, and just generally unappreciative griping for a free game supported by volunteer effort.   And people who've never played Dungeons and Dragons and aren't as open to learning as new setting as they think they are.

Ehver

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #60 on: January 04, 2013, 05:12:41 PM »
Really?

Alright people. I apologize. It shouldn't change. I like it just how it is. Thanks for the discussion, it's been fun.

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Zhernebog

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #61 on: January 04, 2013, 05:18:10 PM »
Hey idea instead of preserving stagnation and boring walks that aren't fun. Offer the service with an inflated rate, enough to make it worth 30 minutes of farming instead of 30 minutes of walking. It'd encourage making it not just "damnit i have to run". You could make it "Do.I have a really good reason to head out/in of vallaki.
I promise you the server wont burn down if we offered it and viewed the results. There is no real reason we cant do science instead of standing behind walls of opinions waving sticks at each other like old people.

Zhernebog

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #62 on: January 04, 2013, 05:18:54 PM »
If the server burns down I'll buy you all a coke.

Fen'lo Taaran

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #63 on: January 04, 2013, 05:22:23 PM »
30 minutes of farming in any domain other than Barovia, you'd be looking at 10-20k per trip.

Elfric

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #64 on: January 04, 2013, 05:23:52 PM »
If the server burns down I'll buy you all a coke.

Dime bag or- Oooh Cola.

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BalorVale

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #65 on: January 04, 2013, 05:24:29 PM »
Mist ways and distance. This is a very common and subjective issue, I believe that the DM's and Development team are indeed doing their best to solve many issues, so even if this one is neglected for a period of time I wouldn't mind.

However I would actually like that there be more starting friendly areas, perhaps have a few minks roaming the outskirts and other non-city maps of port-a-lucine. Have rats in the cellar of Har'Akir's Tavern, maybe hidden atop a dune nearby Har'Akir (Away from the Dust devils and other terrors) There lies a cave with a nasty band of were-jackels.

Instead of making travel easier, I believe that we should make travel more worthwhile for now it seems your stuck in barovia for your first ten levels, not by fault of any of the players or the creators; they designed these areas with higher levels in mind. It isn't just the fact that the walk to the mist camp is so nasty it's that when your adventure is over, you have little else to do. All of the crafting nodes (Or most) are in barovia, there are no minks to hunt; and no challenges left to accomplish once you have completed your initial task or your buddies had to go.

I don't mean to say that places like Har'Akir should have woundwart laying about everywhere, but perhaps places like Port-a-lucine could have a few trees, more herb nodes, and a more easily accessable crafting station. Another point that has been stated is that all of the current DM-run factions are currently in Barovia, this is also true and perhaps with more time we will see more factions come into play. The only thing I can say to that is maybe a developer or DM could take the initiative on this? But it isn't even my place to say that as they have a priority list a mile wide appeasing people.

Perhaps lowering the prices slightly (250gold for Midway lowered to 200 or 150) would ease the pockets on lower level players as was suggested. I just believe that there should be more things to do in Port or Har'Akir, Blaustian or other Domains than just the one dungeon or "farming" mentality they seem to bring with them. It would spark RP as well as feel that there is more options for starting areas then just the outskirts of vallaki.

dutchy

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #66 on: January 04, 2013, 05:24:51 PM »
Well there is a middle ground

Instead of everyone going YES and NO  think and add

How about random spawns instead of the wolves dead stags and ogres ?
Means you never know what you run into  still a long walk BUT atleast its difrant when you take the route
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Fen'lo Taaran

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2013, 05:32:26 PM »
Mist ways and distance. This is a very common and subjective issue, I believe that the DM's and Development team are indeed doing their best to solve many issues, so even if this one is neglected for a period of time I wouldn't mind.

However I would actually like that there be more starting friendly areas, perhaps have a few minks roaming the outskirts and other non-city maps of port-a-lucine. Have rats in the cellar of Har'Akir's Tavern, maybe hidden atop a dune nearby Har'Akir (Away from the Dust devils and other terrors) There lies a cave with a nasty band of were-jackels.

Instead of making travel easier, I believe that we should make travel more worthwhile for now it seems your stuck in barovia for your first ten levels, not by fault of any of the players or the creators; they designed these areas with higher levels in mind. It isn't just the fact that the walk to the mist camp is so nasty it's that when your adventure is over, you have little else to do. All of the crafting nodes (Or most) are in barovia, there are no minks to hunt; and no challenges left to accomplish once you have completed your initial task or your buddies had to go.

I don't mean to say that places like Har'Akir should have woundwart laying about everywhere, but perhaps places like Port-a-lucine could have a few trees, more herb nodes, and a more easily accessable crafting station. Another point that has been stated is that all of the current DM-run factions are currently in Barovia, this is also true and perhaps with more time we will see more factions come into play. The only thing I can say to that is maybe a developer or DM could take the initiative on this? But it isn't even my place to say that as they have a priority list a mile wide appeasing people.

Perhaps lowering the prices slightly (250gold for Midway lowered to 200 or 150) would ease the pockets on lower level players as was suggested. I just believe that there should be more things to do in Port or Har'Akir, Blaustian or other Domains than just the one dungeon or "farming" mentality they seem to bring with them. It would spark RP as well as feel that there is more options for starting areas then just the outskirts of vallaki.

Avenue of Progress, however it's spelt, has herb nodes, etc, etc. Port-A-Lucine has many different crafting stations, not to mention those that aren't as obvious to find, the Mist Camp has them in tents. Throw in the fact that there are plenty of places with herbs lying around, it's just that people don't want to -explore-. Keep in mind that most people don't play -adventurers- who actually -adventure- they play a character, with a pre-built idea in mind and stick to the most optimal routes. There are quite a few areas in the module, where you will think there might be an area trans, so you scour the entire area for a single trans with detect mode on, incase of secret doors.

The trip from Vallaki to the Vistani Camp (in Barovia) takes roughly 10 minutes providing you've bothered getting herbalism up, or know how to use a scroll or know how to have a few pairs of Travelers Boots, also for those who don't have invis, party up with a lowly party, and clear some lower areas. The newer loot that was added is crazy high-magic for low levels, as such, you can find one-use invis items by the dozens. Perhaps if there was something to actually pique the interest of the PCs whilst on the walk. It's not so much the walk being long, as it being "oh yay, resting for exhausting, oh yay, ogres mages run, run, run, yay tser pools, freedom".

BalorVale

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #68 on: January 04, 2013, 05:34:11 PM »
Well there is a middle ground

Instead of everyone going YES and NO  think and add

How about random spawns instead of the wolves dead stags and ogres ?
Means you never know what you run into  still a long walk BUT atleast its difrant when you take the route

I believe another cause for abrasion was that it is simple for casters to remain invisible and just run there unhampered, whilst fighters and other classes are forced through these "trails" over and over, It is not a lack of appreciation for the area much as they just have to do it multiple times to get to their location they wish to reach. Adding variety to monsters could indeed create a more sense of "fear the night" and is constructive at it's core. What I worry is that these characters will feel when there is say, a bone golem. That a haste/invis mage can avoid and the fighter could possibly die from it creates this animosity.

It is a difficult battle to fight being that it seems to ultimatly subjective at it's core. I encourage my own statement as well as those of whom I mentioned as possible solutions. Do not be disheartened by the fact that your suggestion is not implemented the day it is spoken, I believe that our development team, busy as they are, read through these suggestions and make difficult decisions on implementing change and how much to give and take. Give it time, is my advice. Your voice will be heard if you have something constructive to say.

Feronius

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #69 on: January 04, 2013, 05:51:34 PM »
I thought the place already had random spawns? At least some parts of it, that narrow part seems to have. (Sometimes none even.)
And I am pleasantly surprised (although mainly surprised) to see Dutchy being the only one not trolling or posting irrelevant discussion for once.


And great suggestions BalorVale, those are exactly the kind of things I was talking about. Rats in cellars, perhaps more lower level bandits mixed into one part of the Port? etc.

I do like change. Making the mobs random, less hard in difficulty and the ferry less pricy all seem to promote the right things.
I simply feel that an instant traveling caravan might not promote the right change. Likely ends up used to farm dungeons more and more effectively rather than encouraging RP in other domains.
But I guess that all depends on how it's implemented and there's only one way to find out. I don't think the traveling time is the actual main issue though.

The unfair class advantage is somewhat true, then again, fighters generally have it easier to survive things solo so it isn't completely outrageous.


Fen'lo, that's partially true. The Port has plenty of crafting stations and some herbs, but it also has insanely high level mobs that wander around half the time.
The crafting stations aren't accesible half the time (a good hour of waiting time) and I don't think there's many chances to farm or earn anything for lower levels either.

Fen'lo Taaran

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #70 on: January 04, 2013, 05:54:13 PM »
Collect herbs, post on forums about selling herbs in Port-A-Lucine, profit.

Feronius

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #71 on: January 04, 2013, 05:57:07 PM »
Collect herbs, post on forums about selling herbs in Port-A-Lucine, profit.

Sounds more like a complete and utter lack of RP to me. And a horribly inconvenient waittime.
Because as it is, you're way better off traveling to the outskirts to sell off the herbs or brewing them for yourself in the Port.

And how does this comment have anything to do with someone not being able to gather herbs there as a lower level to begin with? Or access the crafting stations safely.

Fen'lo Taaran

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #72 on: January 04, 2013, 06:00:57 PM »
That problem still exists in Barovia. Also if someone really wants to be based out of Port-A-Lucine, they know the challenge they're up against. Also note, that in the Avenue of Progress, I haven't seen anything other than deer and you sell the herbs for money, then get more herbs and voila, you have the herbs, and gold required to actually -brew- them.

RedwizardD

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #73 on: January 04, 2013, 06:20:19 PM »
As I have a PC who more or less moved to Port at level 6 I know how rough it is for a low level to make it in Dementlieu. It can be worked around with help but it is still difficult. Definitely not something a group of low levels can really do currently. Many try anyway for the change of setting and it's something I encourage.

We have a wonderful server to play in if we can actually get around it.

Perhaps a compromise is in order, Have the Vistani run a cart between the cities of Barovia and Vallaki? That would see the City of Barovia getting more traffic too.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 06:23:50 PM by RedwizardD »

Telkar

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Re: Mist Camp Caravans
« Reply #74 on: January 04, 2013, 06:22:00 PM »
Simple solution:

Teleport wands.

I like the idea of teleport. It just needs to be refined to both make sense IC without degrading the nightly horror feel, and preserve balance OOC, well, and a willing scripter of course.

My ideas so far are:

-Available to arcane classes, needing some level limit. About 12 and above seems reasonable. At that level, you can already easily bypass all the monsters on the way you'd normally have to take, and it's not a big challenge to fight through.
-It should cost some amount. Maybe some rare sort of material, specific gems, magical essences or the like.
-The scope of where it reaches is always within the borders of the current realm.
-Works only in specific locations to specific locations. I imagine the megalithic structures you see around Barovia could have this mystical connection to the land necessary to conduct the spell. In fact, making it only work at these structures in Barovia can suffice nicely, since the only major distance is between Vallaki and the Village of Barovia area, and there are already megalithic structures near both.
-The teleport could affect the caster and the people near him if they're within some specific range.

Something like that would be cool i.m.o. Gives a witchy feel, having to go to this special secluded location to conduct this ritual.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 06:31:20 PM by Telkar »