Author Topic: Flame Candle item  (Read 6566 times)

shadymerchant

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Flame Candle item
« on: December 28, 2012, 07:50:03 PM »
One of the newer quirks I've seen pop up during NCW week is low levels with access to this very powerful item. I've heard of it used more for griefing and poorly planned PVP than I have any legitimate purpose and I'm curious if anyone else is of the opinion that this doesn't really belong? It's powerful, common, and one use can end a player in the current arena of low level players. It may end up useless against high level players, but that still means it is primarily a tool for low levels to kill other low level players.

BahamutZ3RO

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2012, 07:54:42 PM »
I brought this up in another thread...

I found a candle with level 18 flamestrike in the beetle cave. Anyone want to get my Duergar angry?
That should be single-use, so it's okay. Are you sure it's level 18?
: )


Elfric

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2012, 07:55:12 PM »
As I recall that's a bugged loot item, it's suppose to be in  higher level areas such as dementlieu and nowhere near the skirts. Which I do recall the reported location, and the fact it's broken as all iadul.

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Ovidiu_Lacusta

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2012, 08:41:16 PM »
I saw this item at Caster Level 18, one time a day.

jlove916

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2012, 10:51:27 PM »
I found two .. and used em to kill some bodaks.. it was great fun..  ;p
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Ercvadasz

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2012, 10:34:09 AM »
i dont even know what these are:)
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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2013, 03:23:50 PM »
I see what the problem is. I will boost the item cost so it will not be so common. Apparently torches aren't priced the same way as other items and skew too low.

Sorry about all this.

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Uranos

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2013, 06:25:11 PM »
Noooooo it was so useful to kill those damn shadows and other fiends! Oh well :D

Smitehammer

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2013, 02:31:32 AM »
Flame candles are awesome!  The only item with charges in the loot table (aside from shield candles, enchanted whetstones, and brooches of shielding) that I have ever used instead of selling.  Them's be the swaggiest, yo.
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Ryltar/ Robert Archer

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2013, 02:26:12 PM »
proof that all anyone cares about is items useful to kill things instead of rp....  :lol:

ManticoreRO

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2013, 02:37:18 PM »
Well, it's good when you missclick when using it. Rada almost wiped her party with it because of one missclick :)
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Ercvadasz

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2013, 10:43:06 AM »
Well I finally know what this talk is about.
I managed to find at least three just in a regular run.
I think these items are actually pretty damn powerfull, maybe even more powerfull than they should be.
One of this makes more damage per turn, then say a dual wielding ranger. Also it definetly hits. (15d6 damage, that is huge!)
And is quite usefull against undead, and since half the server houses undead enemy, this item is VERY powerfull, also it has AOE damage if i am not mistaken, making it
an awesome dungeon cleering device.
If i may ask, i would ask for these itmes to be seriously toned down.
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Zhernebog

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2013, 11:03:31 AM »
I'm going to echo the sentiment above(And repeat it for timestop scrolls) for three reasons:
Low magic server
Easily farmable
BOOM. Headshot.

Neither of these items promote rp, they're just used for breaking things and reduce the need for magical assistance.
Plus if some measly lvl two gets ten of them he can kill half of the outskirts. These items seem irresponsibly powerful.

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2013, 12:04:18 PM »
The reflex save on these things is 17, just so you guys know.  I've had 4 used on me, never once took any damage.  It's no more dangerous than the Hold Person essence or Fear essence that we have had for a while now without any large abuse.

shadymerchant

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 01:09:32 PM »
I would say that is completely untrue. I have heard of multiple instances of these used as single use kill devices by low levels against other low levels that can't make a 17 dc save. As stated, it's also easy to get multiple candles and spam them. My level 8 has two, but i expect in a week he'll carry around 6 at this rate.

Ercvadasz

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2013, 01:15:05 PM »
The reflex save on these things is 17, just so you guys know.  I've had 4 used on me, never once took any damage.  It's no more dangerous than the Hold Person essence or Fear essence that we have had for a while now without any large abuse.

Hold person essence has 14 or 15 dc.
Phantasmal killer has like 15 or 16 (but gives two saves, also since it is instakill you will just get to 0, or be damaged for 3d6)
Sadly for a ranger a reflex save of 17 is not that easy to achieve. The max i can obtain is 13(currently). And i have quite decent dex. (this 13 includes two items that both give +2 reflex, having my cats grace its max 5 bonus and using a universal save +1 item, i have luck of heroes but not lightning reflexes yet.) And you should not forget, that non rogues and non monks, still get damaged by the spell, and it is effectively still 7.5d6 damage. Which on a single item is still quite a good damage output.

Also actually whereas it is quite abuseable in PVP, its true and horrendous power comes out in dungeon farming.
Just to give you an example, with a high ac guy, and someone stocked up with these candles you can easily farm dungeons not meant for your level.
AC guy blocks the door, whereas due to the listen script every moving enemy will come at you folks, and when in mass, you just use up your candles.
5 or 7 such candles can clear out whole dungeons. And i did not even put real thought how this item can be elsewise used or abused.
Sullen woods is a great example, but i can think on at last two other dungeons, which are a lot more rewarding considering loot and xp wise, for a very very long time.
(also undeads have low reflex saves.)

Basicly i could just stock up on these candles, and use them instead of meleeing since, i deal more damage this way, than...i will ever be with my ranger.
(level 20 ranger has 9 attacks, usually having d8/d8 or d10/d6 damage +str bonus, +varnish+enchantment. You can usually get half of these attacks sitting. Which is around half of the damage this candle is able to make!)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 01:19:51 PM by Ercvadasz »
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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2013, 01:25:00 PM »
I would say that is completely untrue. I have heard of multiple instances of these used as single use kill devices by low levels against other low levels that can't make a 17 dc save. As stated, it's also easy to get multiple candles and spam them. My level 8 has two, but i expect in a week he'll carry around 6 at this rate.


   Yeah, my example was not that great.  What you said is completely true, also.  But then again, a crafty level 2 can just as easily talk a powerful character into doing it for him.  I once saw a weapon master kill a lvl 14 character at full health with a single great axe crit.  I don't really see the item as being a huge problem.  People killed each other before it, and if you remove it they will just find other ways.  But then again,  I'm not saying I really feel one way or another about the item.  I just don't see it really changing much.

Ovidiu_Lacusta

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2013, 01:36:44 PM »
The item has a nice write up, but I don't suspect it will receive any actual roleplay.  A class limitation to make it only usable by Druids who have the "Spell completion" requirement, and this item would be roleplayed by and for those who should use it most.  Other classes could try it with UMD.

ManticoreRO

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2013, 01:42:04 PM »
My NCW rogue, Marie. Was killed by one. She had no chance, even with her big reflex save. I agree something must be done regarding this.
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Silverfox

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2013, 01:53:53 PM »
I like it, because it gives me an ace in the hole. Like the Mirror Masks, it's something that I value and consider long and hard when to use it. Too valuable to be wasted on an idle sortie.

Marie did rather provoke that lol. I know ganking is the point with Rogues, but what you do unto others just ends up being returned tenfold in my experience.
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Ercvadasz

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2013, 02:26:38 PM »
I like it, because it gives me an ace in the hole. Like the Mirror Masks, it's something that I value and consider long and hard when to use it. Too valuable to be wasted on an idle sortie.

Marie did rather provoke that lol. I know ganking is the point with Rogues, but what you do unto others just ends up being returned tenfold in my experience.

nope. Even if their value will be adjusted, i think it will still be quite easy to obtain.
Also something that does 15d6 per click...is just...too much on a supposedly low magic.
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ManticoreRO

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2013, 02:46:28 PM »
I like it, because it gives me an ace in the hole. Like the Mirror Masks, it's something that I value and consider long and hard when to use it. Too valuable to be wasted on an idle sortie.

Marie did rather provoke that lol. I know ganking is the point with Rogues, but what you do unto others just ends up being returned tenfold in my experience.

Marie had four on her. Even when she tried to kill him :). I rather not use these items except against mobs in desperate situations. In pvp... it's just not fair, especially that magic bypasses the subdual mode, which I always use.
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Ovidiu_Lacusta

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2013, 02:55:15 PM »
...I still don't understand why all can use this thing.  An item with "Spell completion" works based upon whether or not the bearer of the item speaks the Activation Word.

I don't think everyone knows the last few words to Flame Strike.

Silverfox

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2013, 03:01:31 PM »
And this is why I have UMD :D And arcane caster levels lol.

But not everyone enjoys such.
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shadymerchant

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Re: Flame Candle item
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2013, 03:46:13 PM »
Too valuable to be wasted on an idle sortie.

Again, not true. They still drop frequently in the areas surrounding Vallaki. There are dozens if not a hundred or more in circulation at this point.