Author Topic: Were-bat as a playable monster race.  (Read 17820 times)

Silverfox

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2012, 08:04:52 PM »
Only problem with the subdual effect is the risk of people with the "red until dead" mindset.
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Major Tom

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2012, 08:57:28 PM »
In standard D&D 3.5 General / Races of Eberron, Changelings are descended from Doppelgangers, having become their own independent race over time.

Changelings are something in ravenloft, I can not remember what they are.
Changelings are the daughters of hags in Pathfinder, minor abilities since they are not hags yet.
Changelings are doppleganger/descended from dopllegangers in eberron

could be confusing :P

Well, in Ravenloft, according to the source books, hags reproduce (or at least create other hags) by transforming other females of different races into hags via rituals. :P In other words, the offspring of hags via biological reproductions will never actually be hags themselves.

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herkles

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2012, 08:59:02 PM »
then what is the creature that was taken by the shadow fey* at birth and swapped? I think they are also called changelings :P

*Shadow fey as in the fey from the shadow rift.


Major Tom

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2012, 09:06:00 PM »
I'd assume that's a changeling, yeah, since that's what a changeling in actual folklore is. :P The fey swap out their own offspring for a human baby, because fey don't have souls and humans do. In folklore, that is.

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2012, 09:14:42 PM »
Shadow fey changelings don't ever leave the Shadow Rift, so no, they wouldn't be a playable race.

As for werebats flying, the NWN engine doesn't do flying well, or at all, really. You'd have the same limitations that Vampire PCs do when they shapechange into a bat.

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herkles

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #55 on: December 31, 2012, 09:21:09 PM »
Shadow fey changelings don't ever leave the Shadow Rift, so no, they wouldn't be a playable race.

As for werebats flying, the NWN engine doesn't do flying well, or at all, really. You'd have the same limitations that Vampire PCs do when they shapechange into a bat.

what of the other type of changelings Blue?


Major Tom

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2012, 09:23:32 PM »
Well, my idea for flying would that it would be less of a combat relative ability and more of a feature, such as a 'Teleport' function. You activate the ability, get a list of hotspots based on your domain, pick one, Fly animation, and teleport to that location. Makes it good for escapes, thus preventing MPCs from being insta-ganked by the inevitable 20+ PC mob wanting to mount their head on a wall.

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2012, 09:29:36 PM »
Shadow fey changelings don't ever leave the Shadow Rift, so no, they wouldn't be a playable race.

As for werebats flying, the NWN engine doesn't do flying well, or at all, really. You'd have the same limitations that Vampire PCs do when they shapechange into a bat.

what of the other type of changelings Blue?
The Eberron ones? They wouldn't be a MPC race, but they'd also require a lot of custom content to work in NWN, and I can't see justifying that kind of custom content work for a race from another setting.

Well, my idea for flying would that it would be less of a combat relative ability and more of a feature, such as a 'Teleport' function. You activate the ability, get a list of hotspots based on your domain, pick one, Fly animation, and teleport to that location. Makes it good for escapes, thus preventing MPCs from being insta-ganked by the inevitable 20+ PC mob wanting to mount their head on a wall.
That would be too easily abused, unfortunately.

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Major Tom

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2012, 09:31:41 PM »
Perhaps, but the 100% Piercing Immunity would most definitely be abused by PCs, and given that werebats aren't as physically powerful as werebears or werewolves.. or even wererats, by comparison due to the lack of aerial combat, I can't see them being a popular MPC race with all those drawbacks. Just my two-cents, at least. Then again, isn't the entire review process and such in place for these exact reasons? The whole six month thing being put into action in order to counter-act abuses and such? Not trying to start anything here, just actually curious - if MPCs can't be trusted not to abuse functions in the first place, even after passing application procedures, why even have countermeasures, or MPCs altogether?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 09:34:51 PM by Major Tom »

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herkles

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #59 on: December 31, 2012, 09:38:39 PM »
Shadow fey changelings don't ever leave the Shadow Rift, so no, they wouldn't be a playable race.
what of the other type of changelings Blue?
The Eberron ones? They wouldn't be a MPC race, but they'd also require a lot of custom content to work in NWN, and I can't see justifying that kind of custom content work for a race from another setting.

Nah I was thinking of using the changelings from pathfinder, as it fits the flavor of Ravenloft very well, being that they are the daughters of Hags. They get some minor powers till they become a hag. Of course if the Devs do not want to use that material that is fine. I just thought it fit in with ravenloft.


Major Tom

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #60 on: December 31, 2012, 09:39:55 PM »
*Waves his hand in front of herkles' face* ..Just checking if I'm invisible or not. :o

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APorg

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #61 on: December 31, 2012, 09:42:07 PM »
Bear in mind that Pathfinder is slightly higher powered than regular DnD; regular races there are probably on par with +1 ECL races in DnD.
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herkles

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #62 on: December 31, 2012, 09:47:24 PM »
*Waves his hand in front of herkles' face* ..Just checking if I'm invisible or not. :o

*casts see invisibility* now i see you.

@aprogressivist: I would figure that it may be that, but the flavor of changelings from pathfinder really fits in ravenloft IMO.


Major Tom

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #63 on: December 31, 2012, 09:48:02 PM »
Plus, y'know, again.. Ravenloft already has an established system for how hags create more hags..

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #64 on: December 31, 2012, 09:51:56 PM »
I know no full liches, but over the years I've heard people talk about vassaliches (my apologies if I am spelling this wrong). Are they too powerful? I' imagine it mechanically as a vampire without the transforms and gaze, but similarly without the crippling sun weakness. Instead of feeding on blood, they could energy drain like wights.

Time_Stomped

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #65 on: December 31, 2012, 10:06:23 PM »
Nah I was thinking of using the changelings from pathfinder, as it fits the flavor of Ravenloft very well, being that they are the daughters of Hags. They get some minor powers till they become a hag. Of course if the Devs do not want to use that material that is fine. I just thought it fit in with ravenloft.

Same thinking here.  Also the release material on them was in a campaign that dealt with themes related to gothic-horror.  I own the series.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 10:08:01 PM by Time_Stomped »
Istavan Donner

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #66 on: December 31, 2012, 10:13:29 PM »
Ghost Template is a possible but given we have the whole whitelight wandering spirit thing that probably is a no go.

Hypothetically, isn't EVERYONE capable of being a ghost? <_<

DM's ruled out ghosts as MPCs a long time ago.  I even brought it up once.


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Bluebomber4evr

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #67 on: December 31, 2012, 10:33:45 PM »
Shadow fey changelings don't ever leave the Shadow Rift, so no, they wouldn't be a playable race.
what of the other type of changelings Blue?
The Eberron ones? They wouldn't be a MPC race, but they'd also require a lot of custom content to work in NWN, and I can't see justifying that kind of custom content work for a race from another setting.

Nah I was thinking of using the changelings from pathfinder, as it fits the flavor of Ravenloft very well, being that they are the daughters of Hags. They get some minor powers till they become a hag. Of course if the Devs do not want to use that material that is fine. I just thought it fit in with ravenloft.
Same issue. It's a race from another setting.

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Time_Stomped

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #68 on: January 01, 2013, 01:13:41 AM »
The writers pretty much wrote it in the spirit of such kinds of settings.  Modifying PotM to have changlings into our specific cannon seems like a good idea considering the benefits of the role play involved.

I think I'll open up a poll to see if people like this idea a lot.
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Major Tom

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #69 on: January 01, 2013, 01:18:10 AM »
Yup, definitely invisible. :o

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #70 on: January 01, 2013, 02:17:01 AM »
The writers pretty much wrote it in the spirit of such kinds of settings.  Modifying PotM to have changlings into our specific cannon seems like a good idea considering the benefits of the role play involved.

I think I'll open up a poll to see if people like this idea a lot.
We're not obligated to abide by the results of such a poll. As a policy, we don't implement races from other settings that require custom content such as being a nonstandard race, nor do we make changes to the established canon of this setting in favor of some other setting. As Major Tom pointed out, hags do not reproduce that way in Ravenloft. This isn't the Pathfinder setting, it's Ravenloft, so we will stick with the established Ravenloft canon.

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Feronius

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #71 on: January 01, 2013, 04:59:31 AM »
I could think of a few other unique traits to make werebats interesting and more unique?

- Aren't bats carrion eaters (omnivores in the broadest sense of the word)? Give them a corpsedevouring / regen ability much like the ghouls have?
- Give them a bonus to movement speed like werewolves / higher stealth skills to represent the "flight"?
(- Alternatively, give them a sort of additional temporary movement speed bonus while transformed into a bat?)
- The sound angle? Where most lycanthropes rely very strongly on smell to track instead. You could even take it so far as to give them a sort of additional ability, like the spell Umber Hulks use? Sonic based, causing a chance to confuse and deafen in a cone before them (limited use.) This would somewhat make up for their lacking combat statistics compared to the other lycanthrope templates (and flight being impossible to implement properly)?



In my eyes, werebats add plenty of a unique perspective, even without proper flight. The difference between them and wererats isn't insanely big, but still large. Bigger than that between all the "woodland-based lycans"? (Prefer the same meat, hunt and track the same, travel the same, make the same or similar sounds, prefering solitude or small groups, etc.) Perhaps the biggest difference would be in the question, would werebats consider forming uneasy alliances with the undead forces? Something every other lycanthrope almost immediatly answers with a resolute "NO.", but carrion eatering partners in crime might?

Major Tom

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #72 on: January 01, 2013, 05:32:05 AM »
Actually, quite the opposite. I forget where I read it, but as I recall it, werebats go out of their way to take out vampire leaders in order to usurp their positions of power and their subordinates - though some end up enslaved when they try to bite off more than they can chew. I think the source I read stated that they relish their lycanthropic state more than any other lycanthrope - while even werewolves struggle with their beastial natures, werebats apparently allow themselves to be engulfed by it.

So yeah, werebats would be far less.. subtle.. than a vampire would be. Make of that what you will.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 05:45:52 AM by Major Tom »

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Feronius

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #73 on: January 01, 2013, 06:12:18 AM »
That's awesome, I think it'd be an incredibly neat concept to RP a werebat enslaves by a vampire coven.


But I was thinking more along the lines of wights, like how wights sometimes work with ghouls. One drains, the rotting flesh is left for the other.
Assuming werebats eat carrion and like easy prey, which I wager they do, would they form uneasy alliances with wights? Or at least not mind feeding together?

Or are they opposed to undead as much as any other lycanthrope? Just repelled by the undeath itself?
They aren't as smell orientated at all, so that ought to be at least one less hinderance to overcome when allying with the rotting dead!

Major Tom

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Re: Were-bat as a playable monster race.
« Reply #74 on: January 01, 2013, 01:19:37 PM »
I'd assume a werebat would bully lesser undead, treating them as inferiors that should act as its subordinates. They strike me as particularly sinister forms of lycanthropes, as opposed to the brute force savagery of, say, a werewolf.

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