Author Topic: Attune Gem  (Read 22717 times)

APorg

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 5336
  • Fanatic Xenophile
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #75 on: December 30, 2012, 09:24:25 PM »
Raise Dead point was still spot-on though. :D

True, but it's an odd one -- the rules for powers checks on spells cover "Evil or Necromantic" spells and "Evil and Necromantic" spells -- Raise Dead and Resurrection are neither Evil nor Necromantic.

Then again, maybe poor Liz already is a Darklord and that's why she's stuck in that godforsaken church.
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

Major Tom

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
  • "Nobody has margaritas with pizza!"
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #76 on: December 30, 2012, 09:27:23 PM »
Well, again, it's cause you're in Ravenloft - the rules change accordingly. Since you're deep in the Ethereal, to begin with, and you're being yanked out of it, it stands to reason that you're screwing with the 'natural order', and that in turn is a deviancy. Heck, there ARE some cultures in some settings that consider resurrection magic to be an evil, due to the whole 'sanctity of life and death' thing. This is just one of those occasions. Plus it's the fact that you're knowingly risking creating a zombie or a vampire if the subject were to fail to resurrect properly.

So yeah.. To be honest, I wouldn't complain if they did apply it - they've already gone halfway there with adding the whole 'fail to resurrect right, come back as zombie' dealio. If nothing else it'd greatly reduce the resurrection abuse on the server, and add a whole new level of uncertainty to the whole 'fear of death' argument. I mean, heck, just cause it's a PW server, doesn't mean that people can resurrect willy-nilly; that's just a comfort given to the players. I've seen zombie survival servers that were PW and they were literally 'you have one life - if it's gone, you're out, make a new character.'

Not saying this server need emulate that, but.. y'know.. again, the main cause of death is how overpowered the monsters are. If the monsters were less overkill, and the gear less powerful, and the consequence of dying was raised to such high stakes.. I dunno, it might have an effect. Who knows. I'm just spitballin'.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 09:31:49 PM by Major Tom »

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."

herkles

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 7305
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #77 on: December 30, 2012, 09:28:09 PM »
Morality is super important in gothic tales, and it often is good vs evil. even in ravenloft that is the case, it just is that characters can not tell what is good and evil, and so have to rely on what they know and feel; but there are things that are good and evil, hence DP checks.


Bluebomber4evr

  • Head DM, Developer and Ravenloft Trivia Guru/Community Council
  • Administrator
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 20622
    • http://www.nwnravenloft.com
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #78 on: December 30, 2012, 09:46:54 PM »
The reasoning for raise dead/resurrection causing powers checks in PNP is because they were considered necromancy in 2nd edition and it was just carried over into 3rd edition Ravenloft.

Bluebomber4evr: The Justice, not you, since 2002

Major Tom

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
  • "Nobody has margaritas with pizza!"
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #79 on: December 30, 2012, 09:57:17 PM »
Perhaps, but that's not a very good 'lore' explanation for it. :O Hence why I suggested what I did.

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."

Bluebomber4evr

  • Head DM, Developer and Ravenloft Trivia Guru/Community Council
  • Administrator
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 20622
    • http://www.nwnravenloft.com
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #80 on: December 30, 2012, 10:00:40 PM »
Perhaps, but that's not a very good 'lore' explanation for it. :O Hence why I suggested what I did.
right, the fact that it still has a chance of turning people into undead monsters is good enough

Bluebomber4evr: The Justice, not you, since 2002

Major Tom

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
  • "Nobody has margaritas with pizza!"
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #81 on: December 30, 2012, 10:04:14 PM »
I'm sorta starting to get the feeling I should really just be treating the server as 'Ravenloft Lite: Cherry Flavor', rather than constantly expecting the full-on Gothic horror experience, and that if I do so I'll probably stop getting this twitch in my eye. :lol:
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 10:05:55 PM by Major Tom »

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."

DM Nocturne

  • Sanguis Noctis
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3262
  • Vampires don't do dishes
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #82 on: December 30, 2012, 11:06:09 PM »
I'm sorta starting to get the feeling I should really just be treating the server as 'Ravenloft Lite: Cherry Flavor', rather than constantly expecting the full-on Gothic horror experience, and that if I do so I'll probably stop getting this twitch in my eye. :lol:

Maybe you should stop trying to 'fix' things, and just enjoy it for what it is.

dutchy

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 4952
  • Potm's own forum troll
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #83 on: December 30, 2012, 11:20:06 PM »
I'm sorta starting to get the feeling I should really just be treating the server as 'Ravenloft Lite: Cherry Flavor', rather than constantly expecting the full-on Gothic horror experience, and that if I do so I'll probably stop getting this twitch in my eye. :lol:

Well-Intending Bastard

Tagdar Stonebeard- the lone statue
Mihas Mandruleanu- He is the law
Gurdan- priest of the allfather, and current head of the silverhand trading company

Major Tom

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
  • "Nobody has margaritas with pizza!"
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #84 on: December 30, 2012, 11:30:06 PM »
Maybe you should stop trying to 'fix' things, and just enjoy it for what it is.

I'm sorry. I'll add 'having a sense of humor about myself' to the list of things not allowed. Though now I'm at an impasse.. on the one side, I'm not allowed to treat the server as a serious roleplaying setting, but on the other hand, I'm not allowed to show levity in order to cope with this fact if your disapproving of my little jest acknowledging the exact 'just enjoy it for what it is' mentality you mentioned is something to go by.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 11:36:20 PM by Major Tom »

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."

DM Nocturne

  • Sanguis Noctis
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3262
  • Vampires don't do dishes
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #85 on: December 30, 2012, 11:58:55 PM »
Maybe you should stop trying to 'fix' things, and just enjoy it for what it is.

I'm sorry. I'll add 'having a sense of humor about myself' to the list of things not allowed. Though now I'm at an impasse.. on the one side, I'm not allowed to treat the server as a serious roleplaying setting, but on the other hand, I'm not allowed to show levity in order to cope with this fact if your disapproving of my little jest acknowledging the exact 'just enjoy it for what it is' mentality you mentioned is something to go by.

I didn't say anything about you being allowed or not allowed to do anything. It's an imperfect gothic horror setting. It will never be perfect, because people are involved. Suggestions are fine, we've always paid attention to them, but sometimes it's better for your own sanity if you don't try and raise any sort of storms and try and be happy with what we've got.

Badelaire

  • Guest
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #86 on: December 31, 2012, 12:38:10 AM »
Is it time for derailing pics now? I think it's time for derailing pics now:

MEANWHILE, IN FAERUN!


Amon-Si

  • Inventor of the cat
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2418
  • Freelance troublemaker
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #87 on: December 31, 2012, 12:39:38 AM »
Is it time for derailing pics now? I think it's time for derailing pics now:

MEANWHILE, IN FAERUN!



Ah, reminds me of my honeymoon.

Major Tom

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
  • "Nobody has margaritas with pizza!"
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #88 on: December 31, 2012, 12:45:40 AM »
..you knocked over scented candles and set fire to the hotel?

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."

Amon-Si

  • Inventor of the cat
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2418
  • Freelance troublemaker
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #89 on: December 31, 2012, 12:48:01 AM »
..you knocked over scented candles and set fire to the hotel?

Well... No, we ravaged a small community of weak, non-furry humans... It's a polish tradition.

Badelaire

  • Guest
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #90 on: December 31, 2012, 12:48:51 AM »
MEANWHILE, IN THE NEAT STACK OF BOOKS AZALIN REX KEEPS HIDDEN UNDER HIS BED:



I like the original idea in theory btw as a long term CoA player and having fun missle-storming the crap out of people as a level 7 fighter there but you can see where the imbalance would happen here with the level and power range of PotM. They were a sparse rarity on a server that you could only gain xp and gold through scripted quests and the odd DM spice on and would come with a price tag to match. Neither would have that sort of barrier the cost and process of manufacture there proved here.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 12:55:49 AM by Badelaire »

Green Monster

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 296
  • Nougat-pilfering cheese-cretin
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #91 on: December 31, 2012, 12:55:42 AM »
As to the idea from the OP, it's not bad per se. I just prefer tying things into the crafting systems more so that it relies more on collaboration and less on just gold and level. This also make things in terms of progression less linear (not all tied up to the same dungeoning and looting).

Not to mention, it would just give the existing caster more power more or less freely.

An interesting way to overcome this - and perhaps facilitate a wider economy was if we could somehow meaningfully make an ingredient system. That way, casters would fund their spellcasting through selling attuned "gems" (or whichever we settle on) and there would be a meaningful interdependency. But a full blown ingredient system would be time consuming to implement and easily be a lot of extra (possibly frustrating) management for the casterss.

One of the things I'm trying to address is the "spell-sword" build (fighter/mage, fighter/sorc, fighter/bard, et cetera) which, even though it isn't as powerful as the cleric due to drastically less hp and ab, is nevertheless fun. Here, it's just not a viable build. At all. The lack of wands, and scrolls here invoking armour penalties, just makes it impractical. An attune gem ability, perhaps with a limit of one per day, would allow such builds to effectively save up spells for when they're needed.

As to "giving the caster more power more or less freely", I'd have to argue that it's not much more considering that only self-targeting spells can be stored in gems, and that it would cost the caster a lot more to create one than any existing craft. And it's especially not a great deal more if the caster were limited to producing only one such gem per rest period.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 01:02:45 AM by Green Monster »
Sadie Halloway (nope, no giant graphic, sorry ;-P )

Green Monster

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 296
  • Nougat-pilfering cheese-cretin
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #92 on: December 31, 2012, 12:57:13 AM »

I like the original idea in theory btw as a long term CoA player and having fun missle-storming the crap out of people as a level 7 fighter there but you can see where the imbalance would happen here with the level and power range of PotM. They were a sparse rarity on a server that you could only gain xp and gold through scripted quests and the odd DM spice on and would come with a price tag to match. Neither would have that sort of barrier the cost and process of manufacture there proved here.

My idea is for no offensive spells can be stored in gems, the IC reasoning being that a gem, when crushed, automatically targets the nearest person. The user.
Sadie Halloway (nope, no giant graphic, sorry ;-P )

Badelaire

  • Guest
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #93 on: December 31, 2012, 01:01:38 AM »
As to the idea from the OP, it's not bad per se. I just prefer tying things into the crafting systems more so that it relies more on collaboration and less on just gold and level. This also make things in terms of progression less linear (not all tied up to the same dungeoning and looting).

Not to mention, it would just give the existing caster more power more or less freely.

An interesting way to overcome this - and perhaps facilitate a wider economy was if we could somehow meaningfully make an ingredient system. That way, casters would fund their spellcasting through selling attuned "gems" (or whichever we settle on) and there would be a meaningful interdependency. But a full blown ingredient system would be time consuming to implement and easily be a lot of extra (possibly frustrating) management for the casters.

One of the things I'm trying to address is the "spell-sword" build (fighter/mage, fighter/sorc, fighter/bard, et cetera) which, even though it isn't as powerful as the cleric due to drastically less hp and ab, is nevertheless fun. Here, it's just not a viable build. At all. The lack of wands, and scrolls here invoking armour penalties, just makes it impractical. An attune gem ability, perhaps with a limit of one per day, would allow such builds to effectively save up spells for when they're needed.

As the player of both a fighter/wiz and a pure bard both centering around the spellsword mentality, I can say there's no real hardship playing that concept here. You don't even need fighter levels with the bard as the extra feats allow you to pick martial and heavy armours if you so should choose that route.

Green Monster

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 296
  • Nougat-pilfering cheese-cretin
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #94 on: December 31, 2012, 01:09:10 AM »
Right, Badelaire. No real problem if you don't think taking your plate off to buff before a fight, a process that IRL would take several minutes or even half an hour, is silly. Or use Still Spell feat so that you can, as a lvl 7 bard, finally cast one lvl 2 spell per rest cycle. If and only if your CHA is 16. Yeah, being able to save a spell for later in a gem would just be terrible:roll:

So, I give up. Everything is fine, everything is peachy keen, everyone is happy. Or perhaps there's an awful lot of "I'll suck up to the dev team by extolling the virtues of the status quo".

Starting to remember why I left this server two years ago despite my deep love of the setting and atmosphere.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 01:19:13 AM by Green Monster »
Sadie Halloway (nope, no giant graphic, sorry ;-P )

Major Tom

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
  • "Nobody has margaritas with pizza!"
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #95 on: December 31, 2012, 01:15:37 AM »
Stiiiill preachin' to that choir there, Green. But it's best to just give up altogether. The only changes you can expect to see are ones of more enchanted item drops, and then subsequent increases in death penalties, followed by increases in monster difficulties in order to counter-balance the imbalance caused by the new items, rinse and repeat. Trying to make suggestions, be it in a friendly way, a constructive way, an assertive way, or an aggressive way, will be met with the same shrugging, so it's best to just stop caring and stop treating it like you're playing a Ravenloft server but something 'kinda-sorta-but-not-really'. Y'know, like Fallout 3 is to previous installations, or whatever. You're only gonna end up upsetting yourself, then getting warned, threatened with bans, or just plain banned, when you end up shrieking against the way you get shrugged off and thus set off alarms in doing so.

tl;dr Just give in to apathy as, in an ironic kind of way, the server - for roleplayers like you and me - has achieved the goal of the Ravenloft setting: kill all hope and leave you feeling dead inside and utterly abandoned and isolated. :D

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."

Major Tom

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
  • "Nobody has margaritas with pizza!"
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #96 on: December 31, 2012, 01:21:45 AM »
Ya know, in a way that was what I just said. Well, not really. My suggestion was more akin to 'reality is broked, let's just laugh as the walls of our minds collapse around us'. In essence the only way to play it as a Ravenloft server is to ignore 90% of the mechanics, content and players, plus the DM events (though, given my past experiences, all DM events for me have been 'I'm gonna spam 50 werebats at you, and when you try to investigate why I did so, in-character, and make all of the relevant rolls, I'm going to kill you with lightning. On a clear-skied night. For no reason.' Plus that one time a DM cheated in order to punish players for working together and beating the odds with teamwork, roleplay and heroism in order to push back a rigged spawn of Falkovnian invaders when the DM's plan was clearly to wipe out everyone. So that's why I ignore DM events, at any rate) leaving you with the only other option, which is 'pretend it just looks like Ravenloft, and has the same name! But isn't!'
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 01:28:32 AM by Major Tom »

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."

Green Monster

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 296
  • Nougat-pilfering cheese-cretin
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #97 on: December 31, 2012, 01:29:55 AM »
I'm just trying to make a suggestion that would benefit many a bit, benefit a few a LOT, and HURT NO ONE. And yet I get a firestorm in response.

Every time I see someone "take off their plate" to buff before a fight, I get a serious case of the twitches. Taking full plate off and putting it on again is a process that should take 20 minutes at least, and that's with the help of a squire! (And I get especially twitchy when that person is apparently naked under their plate). Can't stop that, so I came up with a system of saving buffs for later using gems to mitigate the necessity. A system that's far, far more limited than any other implementation of any such thing I've ever seen. So far, no one has yet to give any rational explanation for how it's a bad idea. Because it isn't. But they're all against it because it's different. So, screw it. I give up.
Sadie Halloway (nope, no giant graphic, sorry ;-P )

Major Tom

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
  • "Nobody has margaritas with pizza!"
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #98 on: December 31, 2012, 01:32:18 AM »
*Pat, pat* Just take a deep breath.. eventually, the apathy will take hold.

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."

Badelaire

  • Guest
Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #99 on: December 31, 2012, 01:35:30 AM »
Well in essence, you could argue many points like that such as the memorising of spells as a wizard should take uninterrupted hours of study and not taking a squat in the middle of the road like a linebacker getting his breath back. Suspension of disbelief is part and parcel of video gaming. What we expect and what we get are two entirely different things.

Here's my image of what an Ezrite's bearing is for example:



Here's the opinion of my then main Tredow, on what Ezrites seem to be about from IC experiences (warning, possible sexy image):

Spoiler: show


You see? Entirely different.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 01:39:23 AM by Badelaire »