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Author Topic: Attune Gem  (Read 12161 times)

aprogressivist

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2012, 08:22:39 PM »
With all due respect, that's not a refutation, that's merely your opinion -- and one that does not stack up with my experience.

It's perfectly possible to solo as a non-caster here.

You get various consumables for buffs (e.g. Firepipes for Protection for Evil). Varnishes for armor buffs and weapon buffs (getting +3 for both is more than feasible). Potions for almost everything else.

I've seen Monks solo everything bar Perfidius.

You've said you have a level 9 character here -- do you have any higher level PCs? Do you understand how the high level economy works? Have you any experience of it?
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aprogressivist

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2012, 08:27:50 PM »
And again, quite simply, the answer to all those poor non-casters who can't solo is not "invent a whole new Craft wholecloth", it's "learn to make buddies with casters". The idea that there's only solo-ing casters out there is patently false, too, and if you're going to rely on those SAME casters to be creating these gems -- then why not just invite them to go out dungeoning instead? I made a Wizard who specialised in buffing parties and I can tell you I'd rather be invited dungeoning than spending my time crafting crap.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 08:30:00 PM by aprogressivist »
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2012, 08:53:16 PM »
Personally I find the whole crafting thing exceedingly dull, its not why I play this game. If it were up to me I'd be scrapping the whole system and just have vendors sell stuff we need. Its simpler and leaves more time for what really matters, actually playing an adventurer no less ;)

If these attune gems were added I'd never use them on my none casters cause they are just way over priced and frankly I'd rather have a caster with me anyway to get those buffs for free.  :mrgreen:

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #53 on: December 29, 2012, 09:00:49 PM »
If these attune gems were added I'd never use them on my none casters cause they are just way over priced and frankly I'd rather have a caster with me anyway to get those buffs for free.  :mrgreen:

Exactly. You'd rather have a caster along to get them for free. Thank you. That's a point I've been trying to make but no one's listening. But when you can't find a caster with whom it'd be IC to work, wouldn't it be nice if you had options other than sitting around twiddling your thumbs?

This wouldn't make people stop soloing. It wouldn't make people who don't solo start doing it. People will do what they want regardless. What it would do is A) make the rest of us suffer less when we can't find a buff machine and B) open the door for the arcane swordsman, a build that's not really very viable here due to the removal of craft wands and scrolls being made to impose armour penalties.

And aprogressivist, as to those loot table consumables, whence do they come? Why, mostly from the soloists who go out and get them. So....  we reward the soloist for leaving us sitting around in the outskirts by putting more coin in his or her pocket.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 09:05:16 PM by Green Monster »
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #54 on: December 29, 2012, 09:10:47 PM »
I wonder if I should point out the fact that a Low Magic server, and setting, by its very design, is one wherein it should be just as functional to play without a caster of any sort, as with one. So basing it on that.. yeah, what's it say when this server is clearly not one of those, going off of that criteria, and then having every single excuse against change be 'if you're having a tough time, get a caster! You can't survive without a caster! You'd be stupid to go without a caster!'

Ya know, it's not exactly functional to force every situation to be one wherein you need to buff yourself out the eyeballs just to stand a chance against an enemy of LOWER level than you. And thus in turn to force you to rely on one singular player who has the means to buff you out the eyeballs, as a result.

Mind you.. if the server were to use, say, a Quality-based system, then a lot of this stuff would go right out the window. Basically that you would be able to succeed crafting with far better chances, rather than the 'hahaha, fuck you' rates that crafting checks have now, but the results would thus be based on your crafting level, instead, and even failure would still provide a result, rather than a waste of money.

Elaborating a bit further: Let's say you're a Level One smith.. you make a sword. You succeed! Its quality is 'Below Average' to 'Poor'. 'Cause you're level one, duh. However, you gained experience for it, and you have a shoddy sword you could technically still sell to a low-level. Make it to level two, it's Average to Below Average. You fail at level two, and you create a Below Average to Poor instead. In turn, this would create a stable item scale where weapons and armor would be effective based on their quality, not on enchantments. You end up with weapons that have -1 and +1 to their base physical damages, rather than slinging around lightning blades left and right.

Heck, take it a step further, let's apply enchanting to the mix. Let's say you have a specially carved Fire Agate, like the ones we're talking about for the Attune Gem situation. Imbue it with a fire spell. You get a craftsman to embed it into a sword. That sword is now High Quality, and has 'Fire Agate' as part of the Material marker. Weapon has anywhere from 1 to 1d4 Fire damage, depending on the spell used and the craftmanship level.

Better still, you wouldn't be seeing those flat numbers. We have scripts that can hide stuff like player levels and other such things. Pretty sure it can be scripted so you can't see the weapon statistics such as that 1d4 Fire Damage and the +1 Slashing Damage. All you would see is the quality of the weapon, and the Material: Fire Agate marker, meaning players would also have to roleplay inspecting items, talking to merchants, getting second opinions and more - 'stead of just going 'THAT ONE *POINT*'. Heck, consider further how it'd balance out the economy to have this kind of thing.. rather than weapons being sold for 5000+ gold a piece, while the garda get freaking 3-5 gold per daily pay, you could reduce the cost of templates, for one thing, players would be more inclined to craft because they wouldn't be getting buttfucked by the crafting system's 'You must roll 15 with a -5' on recipes they have already succeeded on in the past.. farming would decrease too.

So that's: Fairer prices on templates, less anti-player crafting requirements, prices drop, balanced gear, enemy levels subside too, necessity to rely on casters goes down as well. All from the simple act of making the crafting more fair and accessible, and utilizing item 'Quality' over enchantments.

EDIT: Thought of another thing to add to this. If the player's Lore or Spellcraft is high enough, they could use the Examine feature on the item in question, and thus get a message like 'You sense magic in this blade.' or 'This weapon feels warm to the touch.' Or if it's a Unique weapon like me and Green have made mentions of, a Lore check could give you a historical insight into the nature or powers of the weapon.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 09:22:15 PM by Major Tom »

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #55 on: December 29, 2012, 09:11:21 PM »
actully you dont seem to be reading, since its been pointed out numerous times
there is enough items in game that.allow non casters to be effective to go out.

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #56 on: December 29, 2012, 09:27:10 PM »
You keep arguing that non-casters will suddenly start soloing if these gems are available. I say it's not going to happen. Because why? Because those players who have the soloing mentality are not making non-casters.
I tend to think you are demonstrating a veiled soloing mentality by not recruiting the pieces you need that may be lacking, via IC.
Instead you look for mechanical changes to enable you to have more success without the need for various skillsets, in this case its mages.


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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2012, 09:32:10 PM »
actully you dont seem to be reading, since its been pointed out numerous times
there is enough items in game that.allow non casters to be effective to go out.

In loot tables. Which you have to either A) go out and get, requiring a caster, or B) buy from those who do go out and get, and put coin into their pockets. Meanwhile, loot tables are random meaning you're not certain to actually find what you're looking for.

So, yes, let's all make friends with the casters, shall we? Let's base our character's friendships solely on what other characters can do for our own. Let the Paladin's best chum be the necromancer who can Stoneskin him. That's good rp, is it?

See.... no one is ever going to say "I'd much rather use up these gems I paid a fortune for instead of having a caster who can buff me for free". But they might say "It's more in-character for my NG ranger to use up some of these gems instead of accept the blessings of the Priest of Bane over there", and I think that'd be a good thing.

So...  which is it? Is PotM a role-play based server where alignment and affiliations MATTER when choosing who to trust to work with? Or is it just "Team Power-Gamer" where we all buddy up to whomever can buff us out the wazoo regardless of religion and alignment?
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2012, 01:12:58 AM »
Perhaps the same could be said of all forum debaters. But enough words, have at you!

 :bat: :whip:

In loot tables. Which you have to either A) go out and get, requiring a caster, or B) buy from those who do go out and get, and put coin into their pockets. Meanwhile, loot tables are random meaning you're not certain to actually find what you're looking for.

The statement that soloing is exclusive to casters is just false, I know of several people who clear semi high level areas alone without being a mage or cleric. Sure a part of the profit is lost to potions and useables but that's the way it's always been when going without a party in DnD. Casters aren't exclusively the only ones able to collect magic loot, and it's really up to you if you want to buy it from a player merchant or if you wish to progress at a lower pace but 'earn' your loot yourself. Sure the Potm item trading is highly based in players trading with players, but implying that a wizard is at the root of any loot brought to the market just ain't true.

Also forgive me if I'm blunt but the system you're suggesting just sounds like a cheap way to get around investing time in a craft. I really don't see why we should add a profitable craft OUTSIDE the crafting system, which would generate money for the craftsman without having to put any effort in it. To brew potions / craft armor etc you don't just put points in a skill or pick a feat on this server. You have to invest time in it to actually progress. I don't think this system would be any different from fighters suddenly being able to craft a fullplate +1 at level 10 by just spending x gold.

In the end though I can see what you're getting at and trying to make the server more fun for people is a noble effort, but at the same time the voices of this thread and what I see in game isn't convincing me that in reality the majority of people playing on Potm get bored and log off if they can't find a wizard to powergame with.

Major Tom

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2012, 01:30:23 AM »
Perhaps the same could be said of all forum debaters. But enough words, have at you!

 :bat: :whip:

 :dracula:

..At any rate! I still think the idea I suggested has some contemplative merits - it'd be somethin' that'd take a while to implement.. but given that it was the shift to a player economy that resulted in a great deal of the borked'ness we're in now, balancing out the stuff that goes into said player economy would be a great way to enforce server balance. As it currently stands, the player-based economy is a cause for a lot of the troubles, between farming, solo'ing and the 'inflation', as I call it (items that once cost maybe 500-1000 gold now going for as high as 6000+).

I could even see the Masterwork issue being worked around.. as a werewolf should only have a +1/5 Damage Reduction, meaning it only absorbs 5 points of damage, and +1AB screws that up (since it should be enhancement, or silver). Solution there: +2/5 Damage Reduction. Damage is still absorbed. Silver weapons don't get +1AB (unless it's a Masterwork Silver Weapon), but it gets a +5 Damage Bonus (Base Damage Type) vs Shapechangers. Thus its DR swallows up the extra damage, and instead does normal damage. BAM! Problem solved.

I'm focusing on this specific weapon type situation since one of the explanations for making werewolves so ungodly powerful was that +1AB glitched a bypass of the DR feature, and was in turn the sort of hole-digging procession of increasing everything in power bit by bit in order to complement the consistently increasing levels of power.

Basically, due to the upping of monsters, and thus upping of gear to match the monsters, ad infinitum, creates the whole 'power creep' effect. So one of the best solutions might be to tone it back down a bit, and then try a new approach to wares in order to maintain a balance between mobs vs loots.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 01:44:36 AM by Major Tom »

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #60 on: December 30, 2012, 02:34:28 AM »
I wonder if I should point out the fact that a Low Magic server, and setting, by its very design, is one wherein it should be just as functional to play without a caster of any sort, as with one. So basing it on that.. yeah, what's it say when this server is clearly not one of those, going off of that criteria, and then having every single excuse against change be 'if you're having a tough time, get a caster! You can't survive without a caster! You'd be stupid to go without a caster!'

No. That's not true. If you play in a low magic setting a ghost still requires +1 or greater or spells to harm it, mummies rot still requires remove curse or even higher clerical magic, and fear auras obliterate the unshielded mind. In other words the rules don't change. I posted the explanation of the criteria used by WotC in defining low magic setting in both the Ravenloft sources and D&D sources and linked it earlier in this thread. Its that and nothing more, it has to do with how common knowledge and practiced magic is in the setting's whole population.  Ravenloft is low magic because there are not magic powered machines or kitchens being cleaned by animated brooms, no reknown Wizardry or Bardic schools and no hugely influential and wealthy and widely regarded religions save one. The churches are in decay and faith is wavering, but the magic spells granted by the religions in Ravenloft are one and the same as any D&D setting. Jim and Sally inkeeper lose their lunch if they see a mage fight break out in Vallaki's Blue Water Inn but not in a Waterdeep or Sigil tavern. You get what I am trying to say? PotM is low magic, but to truly keep it low magic would require severe drawback and restriction of gameplay to some classes so items in loot or magic items exist (+1 only mind you, rare +2s). They exist in Ravenloft too, just rarer than on PotM.  Its a good happy medium, nothing is perfect, but if you are going to complain about high magic understand the term you're campaigning against or the debates are coming from differing definitions.


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Major Tom

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #61 on: December 30, 2012, 02:59:42 AM »
Your +1 argument is nullified by these Ravenloft books I've got in front of me pointing out that Holy Water is a vulnerability to be used against ghosts, alongside of specific allergens and holy symbols. In other words, you could simply make it so that 'using' a holy symbol on a weapon gives it the necessary benefits required to fight ghosts, or you can splash holy water on it (which is already an option). Voila! +1 weaponry dilemma vs ghosts is outta the picture.

Also, I should probably point out that the reason Ravenloft is a fun setting is because of the restrictions. It's the same reason someone joins a Zombie Survival server on NWN, despite the level cap being 2, and weapons being so scarce that you'll settle for the leg from a table to use as a club, just to survive. I wouldn't complain about how restrictive it is being a member of the Imperium of Man in WH40K because I can't be bestest friends with xeno scum. You play by the restrictions established by the setting. It's why we have individual settings in the first place. Otherwise we might as well treat Krynn as being identical to Eberron.

I dunno, maybe I'm just too avid of a roleplayer, and am letting my fondness of the setting get the best of me. Who knows.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 03:09:13 AM by Major Tom »

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #62 on: December 30, 2012, 06:46:37 AM »
I wonder if I should point out the fact that a Low Magic server, and setting, by its very design, is one wherein it should be just as functional to play without a caster of any sort, as with one. So basing it on that.. yeah, what's it say when this server is clearly not one of those, going off of that criteria, and then having every single excuse against change be 'if you're having a tough time, get a caster! You can't survive without a caster! You'd be stupid to go without a caster!'


Actually, I think it's much rather so that in a low magic setting, casters are much more powerful - and important.

That is why we wanted the crafting system to be able to produce many of the effects you'd otherwise only get from casters. The only alternative to attain a balance would be to nerf casters which is equally unpopular (and which we already have done to some extend already.)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 06:53:57 AM by Zarathustra217 »

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #63 on: December 30, 2012, 06:58:33 AM »
As to the idea from the OP, it's not bad per se. I just prefer tying things into the crafting systems more so that it relies more on collaboration and less on just gold and level. This also make things in terms of progression less linear (not all tied up to the same dungeoning and looting).

Not to mention, it would just give the existing caster more power more or less freely.

An interesting way to overcome this - and perhaps facilitate a wider economy was if we could somehow meaningfully make an ingredient system. That way, casters would fund their spellcasting through selling attuned "gems" (or whichever we settle on) and there would be a meaningful interdependency. But a full blown ingredient system would be time consuming to implement and easily be a lot of extra (possibly frustrating) management for the casterss.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 07:02:12 AM by Zarathustra217 »

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2012, 08:52:12 AM »
actully you dont seem to be reading, since its been pointed out numerous times
there is enough items in game that.allow non casters to be effective to go out.

In loot tables. Which you have to either A) go out and get, requiring a caster, or B) buy from those who do go out and get, and put coin into their pockets. Meanwhile, loot tables are random meaning you're not certain to actually find what you're looking for.

So, yes, let's all make friends with the casters, shall we? Let's base our character's friendships solely on what other characters can do for our own. Let the Paladin's best chum be the necromancer who can Stoneskin him. That's good rp, is it?

See.... no one is ever going to say "I'd much rather use up these gems I paid a fortune for instead of having a caster who can buff me for free". But they might say "It's more in-character for my NG ranger to use up some of these gems instead of accept the blessings of the Priest of Bane over there", and I think that'd be a good thing.

So...  which is it? Is PotM a role-play based server where alignment and affiliations MATTER when choosing who to trust to work with? Or is it just "Team Power-Gamer" where we all buddy up to whomever can buff us out the wazoo regardless of religion and alignment?

well isnt that with everything?

if you want milk you have to buy it irl no?
yet the farmer gets it straight from his herd.

so beeing friends with a farmer is usefull as the milk is either cheaper or free.

we could go the same for people who have friends who are handy with computers or cars or i dunno.

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2012, 12:47:46 PM »
I wonder if I should point out the fact that a Low Magic server, and setting, by its very design, is one wherein it should be just as functional to play without a caster of any sort, as with one. So basing it on that.. yeah, what's it say when this server is clearly not one of those, going off of that criteria, and then having every single excuse against change be 'if you're having a tough time, get a caster! You can't survive without a caster! You'd be stupid to go without a caster!'


Actually, I think it's much rather so that in a low magic setting, casters are much more powerful - and important.

That is why we wanted the crafting system to be able to produce many of the effects you'd otherwise only get from casters. The only alternative to attain a balance would be to nerf casters which is equally unpopular (and which we already have done to some extend already.)

Would employing 'corruption' checks on casters (primarily Wizards/Sorcerers) be something that constitutes a nerf? I'll need to recheck my books to confirm, but I do recall there being mention that spellcasting is a risky business in Ravenloft. On the flipside of this, encouraging players of clerics to behave more in-line with the dogmas and doctrines of their faith would also be applicable. I've seen a few clerics who are actually rather good roleplayers, but are forced to ignore a lot of their characters' IC personalities, views and policies, just because the only alternative for them is to get shafted on partying up with people. That's perhaps not so much a problem on the clerics' behalf, as they are really only doing what they have to in order to get by on the server, but perhaps some manner of middle-ground could be achieved..

As Nemien said, it's a matter of 'oh I'm a paladin, I guess I'll go get help from the cleric of Bane over there'. Just the same as 'I'm a priest of Tyr - now how 'bout I turn a blind eye to that lynch mob I'm seein' here because all the other players will mob me instead,' and so on. I don't pretend that this is stuff that can just be done with the stroke of a wand, at any rate - these kinds of things take time and effort; time and effort that the staff mightn't have on hand as it were (and again, if I knew first thing about scripting, I'd of thrown my hat in ages ago..), but at the very least acknowledging its potential does wonders for discussing what might come from these ideas.

No idea is flawless, or perfect - but when it's clear some time has been taken in formulating its premise, the least one can do is give it a hypothesis.

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2012, 01:03:20 PM »
I am myself a bit lukewarm toward implementing auto-corruption as it risk making it mechanical and bland. No script would be able to take into account all the subtleties of the roleplay that make it vivid and interesting.

In terms of ingredients we could perhaps orient it around gems (both dust and cut gems). That would simplify implementation and pave the way for a meaningful emitting craft.

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2012, 01:05:31 PM »
One way to mess with auto-corruption, perhaps, would be to designate which things trigger it. Like in the books themselves, while not all magical items come with a DP check, using ones that are blatantly evil do. So casting a spell like, say Animate Dead = auto-corruption check. Casting Cure Minor Wounds = not really a situation that calls for it. Just a notion, at least.

Of course, the other solution is a far more complicated one.. that being to implement the 'casting materials' system that's in the base tabletop setting in the first place. After all, that was always the case.. that there was a 'trade off' for each casting class' powers. Clerics got awesome powers, but it was tied to their deities. Sorcerers got magic by nature, but they lacked the discipline and foresight to wield it as safely as a wizard would. And Wizards get phenomenal cosmic powers, but through years of study, and needing to use spell components like 'crushed bone and slime residue' to cast a spell.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 01:08:46 PM by Major Tom »

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2012, 06:46:37 PM »
I wouldn't be a fan of implementing an auto corruption thing either, for one the actual corruption should fit the actual intent of the crime as it were. To me its the intent that matters more than the actual act itself. Sure casting animate dead may be in the eyes of the dark powers worthy of a DP check but its why you did it that really catches their attention. Least that's the way I always understood it, so an auto system wouldn't really do this justice. Besides I would imagine scripting the punishment would be a nightmare to do as every situation is going to be slightly different from one to the next.

And don't get me started on spell components... I hate micro managing, it just takes away the focus of actually playing the game to managing all this needless extra stuff. Heck, I still grate against the diamond thing with my cleric, so yeah.... No thankyou.

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2012, 06:52:50 PM »
just curious Major Tom but was this from the 3.5 ravenloft player's handbook?

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2012, 08:55:19 PM »
To me its the intent that matters more than the actual act itself. Sure casting animate dead may be in the eyes of the dark powers worthy of a DP check but its why you did it that really catches their attention.

"Hey, I just desecrated the bodies of a dozen children to create an undead army, driven by their own maddening suffering - but it was for a good cause!"
"Ye̡ea̴aa̡h.͏. ̶we'r̸e̡ ́not͏ b̛u̡yiń'̵ th̢a͞t̸ w͝hol͠e̵ '̸f̛or̛ t͘he͝ ģr͠e͝at̢er g̛o͡o҉d͏'͢ cr͏ap҉.̴"

Ravenloft doesn't function on terms of 'good' and 'evil' in the first place. Just 'Order' and 'Chaos'. Reviving the dead, as zombies, or bringing them back to life, is a disruption of the 'natural order', therefor it is chaos, therefor it is a DP check. It's why, in another thread, someone pointed out that Liz back in the ML temple oughta be DP5 by now due to how often she resurrects people.

As for the source of the weaknesses thing, herkles, it was the 2nd Ed. book - but if you're gonna insist on the dang 'editions' argument as usual, then I'll be happy to look up the 3rd Ed. criteria on ghosts. Would you like me to cross-reference werewolves while I'm at it? I mean, the 2nd Ed. book says they're weak versus silver, but I'm sure that changed too, right? Right. Also, if we're going to start citing the books on weaknesses, perhaps I should reiterate a point I made two years ago: Vampires are weak versus alchemical silver weapons.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 08:59:52 PM by Major Tom »

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2012, 08:58:47 PM »
Ravenloft doesn't function on terms of 'good' and 'evil' in the first place. Just 'Order' and 'Chaos'. Reviving the dead, as zombies, or bringing them back to life, is a disruption of the 'natural order', therefor it is chaos, therefor it is a DP check. It's why, in another thread, someone pointed out that Liz back in the ML temple oughta be DP5 by now due to how often she resurrects people.

Um. What?

First of all, the entire point of Gothic horror is Good vs. Evil.

Secondly, Raise Dead is Conjuration. Not Necromancy.
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

Major Tom

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2012, 09:05:01 PM »
Um. What?

First of all, the entire point of Gothic horror is Good vs. Evil.

Secondly, Raise Dead is Conjuration. Not Necromancy.

Actually, the entire point of Gothic horror is 'morality', which, while sounding like Good vs Evil, isn't. Then there's the fact that scrying of any kind detecting Good and Evil does not function, but detecting Chaos and Law does. As for your remark on Raise Dead. Well..

Quote
Raise Dead/Slay Living: If the target of a raise dead spell fails his resurrection survival roll, he becomes an undead creature of a type equal in Hit Dice to his former level. Vampires are the most powerful creatures a raise dead spell can create in this fashion, and they retain any abilities they had in life. In campaigns where the Requiem rules are being used, characters raised as undead should be converted according to the guidelines presented in that accessory.

Casting this spell (or its reverse, slay living) requires a Ravenloft powers check.

Quote
Resurrection/Destruction: If the target of a resurrection spell fails his resurrection survival roll, he becomes an undead creature of a type equal in Hit Dice to his former level. Vampires are the most powerful creatures a resurrection spell can create in this fashion, and they retain any abilities they had in life. In campaigns utilizing the Requiem rules, characters raised as undead should be converted according to the guidelines presented in that accessory.

Casting this spell or its reverse, destruction, requires a Ravenloft powers check.

Personally I can see why they'd handwave this one, given the amount of butthurt I can imagine it producing. ..So anyway, moving on.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 09:14:00 PM by Major Tom »

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Bluebomber4evr

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2012, 09:16:21 PM »
Um. What?

First of all, the entire point of Gothic horror is Good vs. Evil.

Secondly, Raise Dead is Conjuration. Not Necromancy.

Actually, the entire point of Gothic horror is 'morality', which, while sounding like Good vs Evil, isn't. Then there's the fact that scrying of any kind detecting Good and Evil does not function, but detecting Chaos and Law does.


No, you're 100% absolutely wrong; morality in D&D is Good and Evil. Law and Chaos as defined by D&D are "ethics." Ravenloft is about Good vs. Evil, and it says that in virtually every published Ravenloft product. The reason you can't detect evil in Ravenloft is because the Dark Powers are trying to force characters to determine whether someone is Evil by using their own judgment instead of relying on the gods to tell them via magic.

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Major Tom

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2012, 09:17:47 PM »
Fair enough - then again, that's an alignment debate.. and any player of DnD knows to stay the hell away from alignment debates, because those are the source of eternal shitstorms.

Raise Dead point was still spot-on though. :D

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."