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Author Topic: Attune Gem  (Read 22708 times)

Major Tom

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #100 on: December 31, 2012, 01:39:30 AM »
Lies! Totally inaccurate lies! That slut's outfit should be GREEN not black! I find you to be an unreliable source, good sire, and rebuke your counsel!

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Badelaire

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #101 on: December 31, 2012, 01:41:31 AM »
You'll have to photoshop it yourself, I'm a good boy and don't look at naughty images of semi-naked women of ill repute. I had to say 10 hail Ezra's just to absolve myself of the sin of carnal lust that lurks beneath in the coming time of unparalleled darkness. What was this thread about again?

Major Tom

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #102 on: December 31, 2012, 01:44:10 AM »
Doesn't matter now, it'll never get implemented, so it's more or less free reign for madness until it inevitably gets shut down and deleted to keep future players from getting similar ideas. At least until they reach the same conclusions on their own.
:cheer:
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 01:45:43 AM by Major Tom »

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Green Monster

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #103 on: December 31, 2012, 01:49:43 AM »
I think the thread is about people being perfectly happy to take their armour off to buff themselves before a fight, and how this is not at all a bad thing and doesn't in any way break immersion for the people around them, and so any system that would render it unnecessary, like saving buffing spells for later in gems, would make the server suddenly become a madhouse of epic characters soloing Perfidus, missle-storms flying everywhere. A thread wherein people who would benefit from the idea are against it because they want to suck up to the dev team with the notion that everything is perfect as-is, and people who would neither benefit nor be hurt by it being even more against it, because they can't bear for anyone else to have anything nice.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 01:51:15 AM by Green Monster »
Sadie Halloway (nope, no giant graphic, sorry ;-P )

herkles

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #104 on: December 31, 2012, 01:51:08 AM »
my ezrite clerics dressed like the first image badelaire not the second. >>>


Green Monster

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #105 on: December 31, 2012, 01:52:31 AM »
I'm dressed like the second image IRL, right now. It's my forum posting outfit.
Sadie Halloway (nope, no giant graphic, sorry ;-P )

Major Tom

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #106 on: December 31, 2012, 01:55:44 AM »
I think this thread needs this..

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYLsyNBnE5M[/youtube]

 :fonzie:

..also, Green.. picz nao?

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Badelaire

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #107 on: December 31, 2012, 01:56:58 AM »
Anyone who's done Perf will know missle storms are a waste of spell slots/scrolls btw. Malphor chews those things up and spits out the seeds, sport.


EDIT:

On the subject of immersion, I always accrue so much instance crap on my PC's they should rightly end up looking like this:

« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 02:00:36 AM by Badelaire »

Green Monster

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #108 on: December 31, 2012, 02:09:14 AM »
No pics, you can google search for my webcam. $1.99 CAD per minute.

Back on topic, hasn't it ever occurred to anyone that when you take off your plate mail to cast your arcane spells before a fight, you're causing the others in your group to facepalm IRL? Why is there such opposition to an idea that would BENEFIT the server and hurt NO ONE? Seriously.

The only explanation I can think of is that there's an awful lot of people being like "Oh, look at me, dev team. I'm sticking up for the server as-is because everything you've done to date is just perfect. Now can I please have that special sword with my name etched on the blade that I applied for?". Honestly. Yes, the dev team have done a wonderful job, but it isn't perfect. It can never be perfect. Nothing can.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 02:12:42 AM by Green Monster »
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Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #109 on: December 31, 2012, 04:01:15 AM »
I'm just trying to make a suggestion that would benefit many a bit, benefit a few a LOT, and HURT NO ONE. And yet I get a firestorm in response.

I honestly think you're the only one making a firestorm here. Beside you and Tom, there's no agitation. And carelessly suggesting that everyone else are just brown nosing the developers is both disrespectful and derailing.

You can only discuss productively if you make an earnest effort to see the other view. I don't see that you've logically refuted any counter argument, but much rather seem to trivialize them. That's where it becomes subjective - and a little humility toward that aspect would really improve the dialogue here. It's somewhat painstaking to read your and Tom's posts about being ignored in that light.

You don't like how spellswords quickly remove and re-equip armour before a fight. You feel it ruins your immersion. But to other's it is trivial and fall under the category of little compromises that may not be all that realistic but doesn't get in the way of roleplay (much as the ability to carry hundreds of items around even if it doesn't show up on your character). This will remain an open question and up to subjective assessment and it's unfounded to consider those who disagree with you less interested in roleplay because of that.

Second, there's the question of power - which is notoriously hard to assess, thus prone to a great amount of subjectivity. You say that it will be expensive, but there are quite many high level characters where those costs would seem diminutive. For others, it would be an incitement to solo more, as that's the best way to guarantee you get the fattest share of the loot. Consequently, it could grant already powerful characters a virtually limitless supply of spell casting items, overcoming spells per day limitations etc. I think it's fair to at least have some scepticism here.

But as I've also already said, there are compelling aspects too. It's just not nearly as much a no-brainer that you make it to be. And insisting on that is making you the one blind to argument - and blowing wind to the firestorm.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 04:04:48 AM by Zarathustra217 »

Lucadia

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #110 on: December 31, 2012, 05:13:08 AM »
Im not sure Iv seen anyone take off their armor to buff with spells or maybe most of us are good enough to recraft a robe to look like our armor when switching  :mrgreen:

Honoun

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #111 on: December 31, 2012, 05:26:11 AM »
On the subject of having to remove armour to cast spells for a spellsword (not actually sure what that is to be honest, first time I even heard about is in this thread). I'm one who takes the stance of, well, so what? Roleplay out the removing of the armour and all that is fine and dandy and if that's what you get your kicks out of then by all means go for it. And I have seen  some players do this actually. Keep in mind though that my characters might get a little testy as they'll see it as wasting time when there is adventure to be had! On the other hand if you're just going to quickly un-equip your armour, cast your buffs then just as quickly re-equip the armour then that too is fine by me. I understand that roleplaying that stuff out is really kinda tedious, I like to call doing such as milking the roleplay myself.

I mean some people are masters at emoting inane stuff in a visual medium where you see the character doing it anyway. Take [Walks across the room and sits down in a chair on the far side].. The amount of times I have seen emotes similar to this to which I stare at the screen and laugh and think.. No really? You're kidding me? I swear I just saw the avatar you're controlling doing this.

Milk the roleplay guys, its the only way to level :P

Budly

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #112 on: December 31, 2012, 05:41:36 AM »
..you knocked over scented candles and set fire to the hotel?

Well... No, we ravaged a small community of weak, non-furry humans... It's a polish tradition.

Just like us Scandinavians but we use horned helmets!

Anyway, lets be nice to Green Monster now folks? :)

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #113 on: December 31, 2012, 05:52:56 AM »
Well, it's not any better saying it's superfluous to roleplay it if that's how some feel they make the world come alive. Embrace the diversity and try to appreciate the creativity itself. Some like to roleplay in very literally based ways (Ron looked around at the crowd and mumbled "What a bunch of no good inbreds" while he picked his nose idly) - this isn't the method I'd use myself, but I can see how there is some merit to it (focusing on the narrative aspect). I myself prefer the classic NwN style, but neither approach is intrinsically better and there is plenty of room for both.

The same applies for things such as roleplaying donning armour. Don't call people less roleplaying if they don't, but play along with it and give them time to if they do. From the outset, we are all privileged by each other's presence here and should not take it for granted nor disregard it - but get the most out of it, letting it unfold whatever it is.

Honoun

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #114 on: December 31, 2012, 06:15:10 AM »
I think you missunderstood me or maybe I wasn't explaining it well enough. If players want to RP every action thier character does even if some of it is needless considering we are playing a visiual medium then I'm happy for them for doing so. It does make my laugh though, but then I find many things in life quite funny when others don't. I tend to not do such things myself, for instance if my char walks into a room pauses for a moment for what ever inner thought she may be having before sitting then thats what I'll make her do. Though I don't emote the inner thought she is having cause well, its an inner thought and no one should see what she is "thinking" anyway. But I may make notes in the journal if such thoughts happen to be relevant or important. ;)

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #115 on: December 31, 2012, 07:08:52 AM »
Well, willing or not, you are still portraying others' style of roleplay as superflous in how you word it - like calling these elements "inane" and "needless". But I think the most significant is to not rush at people who do it (even if it may be IC for your character to do so), but rather pick up on it and be the counterpart for letting it unfold.

Anyway, lets be nice to Green Monster now folks? :)

I feel it's more proper to say: Let us all - Green Monster included - be nice to each other.

Honoun

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #116 on: December 31, 2012, 08:48:01 AM »
Well I didn't mean to belitte anyone elses RP, was just saying I thought some of it was funny... I appologise if I have offended anyone. :oops:

Silverfox

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #117 on: December 31, 2012, 08:52:54 AM »
If we wanted to encourage spellsword builds, then we could always try implementing armour with reduced ASF. Say, a Mithril Chain having 10% ASF instead of 25-30%. I play a Bard that casts in leathers. I just accept the spell failure as a necessary and minor risk for my continued good health. And now, if we were to craft these things with the smithing skill, that opens up more spellsword builds (at a ludicrous price to the purchaser no doubt), we've effectively tacked what I believe to be a balanced spellsword solution onto an existing craft, and it only requires 8 new items (the armours, mithril ore, mithril ingot), and (likely small) amendments to one of the existing crafts.

Of course, I could just be talking nonsense, but I've always wanted to recreate my P&P Ravenloft charater, a Swashbuckler/Duskblade hybrid, in spirit so I've put a bit of thought into this one.
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APorg

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #118 on: December 31, 2012, 09:14:03 AM »
Ah, reminds me of my honeymoon.

Man, you Aussies are crazy.
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dutchy

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #119 on: December 31, 2012, 09:52:42 AM »
Ah, reminds me of my honeymoon.

Man, you Aussies are crazy.

one weird fella ain he.

oh boy badalaire i like the meanwhiles, you never realise what happends somewhere untill it is shown THNX for the educational posts.  :lol:

green- if you remembered why you left, and you are hitting the same road block again then maybe this place is simply not ment for you.  (why bother with something when you don't enjoy it?)

major- same goes for you, cause thats the impression im getting from your posts a player who is bitter about what he sees and is frustrated cause he cant change it (or tries to and isnt accepted to try it)
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Knas

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #120 on: December 31, 2012, 01:20:11 PM »
Please stop spamming the thread with nonsense people, go to the tavern if that's your game.

eyeofpestilence

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #121 on: December 31, 2012, 01:25:30 PM »
As to the idea from the OP, it's not bad per se. I just prefer tying things into the crafting systems more so that it relies more on collaboration and less on just gold and level. This also make things in terms of progression less linear (not all tied up to the same dungeoning and looting).

Not to mention, it would just give the existing caster more power more or less freely.

An interesting way to overcome this - and perhaps facilitate a wider economy was if we could somehow meaningfully make an ingredient system. That way, casters would fund their spellcasting through selling attuned "gems" (or whichever we settle on) and there would be a meaningful interdependency. But a full blown ingredient system would be time consuming to implement and easily be a lot of extra (possibly frustrating) management for the casterss.

One of the things I'm trying to address is the "spell-sword" build (fighter/mage, fighter/sorc, fighter/bard, et cetera) which, even though it isn't as powerful as the cleric due to drastically less hp and ab, is nevertheless fun. Here, it's just not a viable build. At all. The lack of wands, and scrolls here invoking armour penalties, just makes it impractical. An attune gem ability, perhaps with a limit of one per day, would allow such builds to effectively save up spells for when they're needed.

As to "giving the caster more power more or less freely", I'd have to argue that it's not much more considering that only self-targeting spells can be stored in gems, and that it would cost the caster a lot more to create one than any existing craft. And it's especially not a great deal more if the caster were limited to producing only one such gem per rest period.

Between potions, varnishes and scrolls a person could make a spell sword they'd just use these items mentioned instead of potions and possibly invest in the existing crafts and some cross class UMD.

IMHO this system, though a very interesting idea, is redundant to other systems already in place and if the dev team doesn't have the time or current focus on it, as they are all volunteers, it won't get done. Also if Scribe Scroll was implemented it could/would (Don't know since it's not available POTM style) decrease the need for many varnishes and some very rare potions.  

On the cost examples given, for my high teens wizard, he'd never do it and wouldn't be able to afford it. He's to self centred and believes in his own power. My non-caster would order in tens, twenties and thirties b/c the cost is cheap compared to the potential expense/rareness of acquiring other items.

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LackofCertainty

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #122 on: January 01, 2013, 09:42:27 PM »
If you want to make a melee arcane caster, play a dex based bard with parry.  High dex + parry + tumble lets you wear light armor and go without a shield, so your spell failure should be very low.  (bards are just monsters in general past the early levels)

Sure, the average cleric will have better stats for herbalism, but not by too massive a margin.  Clerics have a lot of stats to cover.  For sorcs and wizards, on the other hand, they have basically no stat concerns past int/cha, so they can easily pump con to 12-14 without sacrificing anything.  Honestly, I feel like you're making a big deal out of a 1-3 point advantage.    The only clerics that would have a major stat advantage for herbalism would be pure caster clerics, which are pretty rare in my experience. (although i admit I've wanted to make one of those for a while now)

On the other hand, wizards -do- have a massive stat advantage over clerics for alchemy, and it gives them access to + shield ac as a varnish.  Maybe that's not super valuable to a wizard by default, but it is a powerful buff for their allies, and the spell that it replaces is cleric only.

Ophie Kitty

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #123 on: January 02, 2013, 01:21:34 AM »
I've been meleeing as a mage since like, level 6. You'll never be as good as a fighter, but that doesn't mean you can't do it.

Badelaire

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #124 on: January 02, 2013, 09:05:09 AM »
Regarding that suggestion about armours with reduced arcane spell failures, adding those properties to an item pushes their toolset cost up by an incredibly high amount far beyond the 8k limitation on items currently. As for things like mithral armours, that material is supposed to be incredibly rare in the demi-plane. The only example I ever heard of IG was presented to Strahd for his armoury way back. It took Van Richten a decade or two to be able to scrounge enough adamantine to make a single arrow-head to destroy a werebadger (or some other exotic werebeast) he was hunting so you can imagine how hard super metals are to come by.