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Author Topic: Attune Gem  (Read 12065 times)

Green Monster

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Attune Gem
« on: December 27, 2012, 02:27:37 AM »
Right now, herbalism is a god-send to clerics. Due to the ability scores involved, they're naturally good at it, and having a boatload of healing potions that they can actually use on other people means that they can (and do) buff themselves to kingdom come without fear of being short on healing. This is like having extra spells. Meanwhile, mages are naturally good at alchemy, but how does that help them? Very few alchemical products are things the mage will actually be using him or her self and not everyone wants to be a merchant.

Suggestion: new feat: Attune Gem

Requires: Wizard level 5, or Sorcerer level 6, or Bard level 7

System: An arcane caster with the Attune Gem feat casts a spell on a gem. The spell must be of innate level 5 or lower, higher level spells are too powerful to be stored in gems. The spell MUST be a spell that targets the one using the gem because when the spell is later released it targets the nearest person, i.e., the one who crushed the gem, so no attuned gems of Fireball, or even Greater Magic Weapon, but Stoneskin, Etheral Visage, Et-Cetera will work. In order to store the spell, the gem must have a base value that increases exponentially by innate lvl of the spell (see list below) The result is a gem that, when crushed, releases the arcane energies at the person who crushed the gem. Yes, usable by anyone, but only creatable by arcanists. The caster lvl of the spell released is 5 or the lowest level required to cast the spell, whichever is higher (remember, you have to have at least 5 lvls of arcane spellcaster to get the feat). For spells with multiple effects, such as Protection from Alignment, only whichever effect is cast into the gem is stored there. So for example, if you cast Protection from Evil on a gem, it can't later be used to cast Protection from Good. Also note that, unlike craft skills, you must actually know the spell in order to create the attuned gem of that spell. You cannot create attuned gems by casting from a scroll into the gem. Your character must actually understand the spell and be able to cast it to store it's power in a gem.

In other words, casting one of the valid spells on a gem valuable enough to contain it creates a gem with the property Unique Power: Self Only, single use that releases the spell targeting the user, and named "Attuned Gem of <spell name>". These gems have a weight of 0 and a max stack of 10.

And, again, the resultant gems are usable by any one. Just crush them and voila. No chanting, no gestures, and therefore no arcane spell failure or class limitaiton. Wouldn't it be nice if someone other than clerics were able to buff themselves up while in armour? It's not right that in the tougher areas a group with a couple clerics can do just fine without any fighters, but a group with fighters is doomed without some clerics or mages.

If implemented, this might actually open the door for some spell-swords other than clerics!  :shock:

How this compares to crafting:
Requires a FEAT
Requires the creator to be able to CAST THE SPELL HIM/HER SELF
Is VERY COSTLY compared to 9 gold for a potion bottle and some herbs that can be found for free.
The number of gems you can attune in a single day is LIMITED BY THE NUMBER OF SPELLS YOU CAN CAST IN A DAY. You actually cast the spell on the gem in your inventory.
The caster level, and therefore duration in most cases, will be higher than most crafted items
The gems can only be used on yourself, not on others


Required Gem Base Values (base value of gems, you will likely have to pay much more for them if you're not lucky enough to find them)
Innate Level 0 Spells: 15 gp
Innate Level 1 Spells: 30 gp
Innate Level 2 Spells: 60 gp
Innate Level 3 Spells: 120 gp
Innate Level 4 Spells: 240 gp
Innate Level 5 Spells: 480 gp



Eligible Spells, by Innate Level

Innate Lvl: 0, Min Gem Value: 15, Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Cure Minor Wounds, Created by: Bard
Light, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Resistance, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Innate Lvl: 1, Min Gem Value: 30, Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Amplify, Created by: Bard
Cure Light Wounds, Created by: Bard
Endure Elements, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Expeditious Retreat, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Identify, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Mage Armor, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Protection From Evil (effect from Protection From Alignment Spell), Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Protection From Good (effect from Protection From Alignment Spell), Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Shield, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
True Strike, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Innate Lvl: 2, Min Gem Value: 60, Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Bull's Strength, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Cat's Grace, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Clarity, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Cure Moderate Wounds, Created by: Bard
Death Armor, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Eagle's Splendour, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Endurance, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Fox's Cunning, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Ghostly Visage, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Invisibility, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Knock, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Owl's Wisdom, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Resist Elements, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
See Invisibility, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Ultravision, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Innate Lvl: 3, Min Gem Value: 120, Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Cure Serious Wounds, Created by: Bard
Displacement, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Find Traps, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Haste, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Invisibility Sphere, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Magic Circle Against Evil (Effect from Magic Circle Against Alignment), Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Magic Circle Against Good (Effect from Magic Circle Against Alignment), Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Neutralize Poison, Created by: Bard
Protection From Elements, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Remove Blindness/Deafness, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Remove Curse, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Remove Disease, Created by: Bard
Wounding Whispers, Created by: Bard


Innate Lvl: 4, Min Gem Value: 240, Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Cure Critical Wounds, Created by: Bard
Elemental Shield, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Improved Invisibility, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Polymorph Self: Giant Spider Form (effect from Polymorph Self), Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Polymorph Self: Pixie Form (effect from Polymorph Self), Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Polymorph Self: Troll Form (effect from Polymorph Self), Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Polymorph Self: Umber Hulk Form (effect from Polymorph Self), Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Polymorph Self: Zombie Form (effect from Polymorph Self), Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Shadow Invisibility (effect from Shadow Conjuration). Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Shadow Mage Armor (effect from Shadow Conjuration), Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Stoneskin, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
War Cry, Created by: Bard


Innate Lvl: 5, Min Gem Value: 480, Caster Lvl of released spell: 9
Energy Buffer, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Ethereal Visage, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Healing Circle, Created by: Bard
Legend Lore, Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard
Lesser Mind Blank, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Lesser Spell Mantle, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Mestil's Acid Sheath, Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Shadow Ghostly Visage (effect from Greater Shadow Conjuration), Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard
Shadow Minor Globe of Invulnerability (effect from Greater Shadow Conjuration), Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard


Eligible Spells, Alphabetical

Amplify
Innate Lvl: 1
Min Gem Value: 30
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard

Bull's Strength
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Cat's Grace
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Clarity
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Cure Critical Wounds
Innate Lvl: 4
Min Gem Value: 240
Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Created by: Bard

Cure Light Wounds
Innate Lvl: 1
Min Gem Value: 30
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard

Cure Minor Wounds
Innate Lvl: 0
Min Gem Value: 15
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard

Cure Moderate Wounds
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard

Cure Serious Wounds
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard

Death Armor
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Displacement
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Eagle's Splendour
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Elemental Shield
Innate Lvl: 4
Min Gem Value: 240
Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Endurance
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Endure Elements
Innate Lvl: 1
Min Gem Value: 30
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Energy Buffer
Innate Lvl: 5
Min Gem Value: 480
Caster Lvl of released spell: 9
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Ethereal Visage
Innate Lvl: 5
Min Gem Value: 480
Caster Lvl of released spell: 9
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Expeditious Retreat
Innate Lvl: 1
Min Gem Value: 30
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Find Traps
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Fox's Cunning
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Ghostly Visage
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Haste
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Healing Circle
Innate Lvl: 5
Min Gem Value: 480
Caster Lvl of released spell: 9
Created by: Bard

Identify
Innate Lvl: 1
Min Gem Value: 30
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Improved Invisibility
Innate Lvl: 4
Min Gem Value: 240
Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Invisibility
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Invisibility Sphere
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Knock
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Legend Lore
Innate Lvl: 5
Min Gem Value: 480
Caster Lvl of released spell: 9
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Lesser Mind Blank
Innate Lvl: 5
Min Gem Value: 480
Caster Lvl of released spell: 9
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Lesser Spell Mantle
Innate Lvl: 5
Min Gem Value: 480
Caster Lvl of released spell: 9
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Light
Innate Lvl: 0
Min Gem Value: 15
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Mage Armor
Innate Lvl: 1
Min Gem Value: 30
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Magic Circle Against Evil (Effect from Magic Circle Against Alignment)
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Magic Circle Against Good (Effect from Magic Circle Against Alignment)
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Mestil's Acid Sheath
Innate Lvl: 5
Min Gem Value: 480
Caster Lvl of released spell: 9
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Innate Lvl: 4
Min Gem Value: 240
Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Neutralize Poison
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard

Owl's Wisdom
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Polymorph Self: Giant Spider Form (effect from Polymorph Self)
Innate Lvl: 4
Min Gem Value: 240
Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Polymorph Self: Pixie Form (effect from Polymorph Self)
Innate Lvl: 4
Min Gem Value: 240
Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Polymorph Self: Troll Form (effect from Polymorph Self)
Innate Lvl: 4
Min Gem Value: 240
Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Polymorph Self: Umber Hulk Form (effect from Polymorph Self)
Innate Lvl: 4
Min Gem Value: 240
Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Polymorph Self: Zombie Form (effect from Polymorph Self)
Innate Lvl: 4
Min Gem Value: 240
Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Protection From Elements
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Protection From Evil (effect from Protection From Alignment Spell)
Innate Lvl: 1
Min Gem Value: 30
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Protection From Good (effect from Protection From Alignment Spell)
Innate Lvl: 1
Min Gem Value: 30
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Remove Blindness/Deafness
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Remove Curse
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Remove Disease
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard

Resistance
Innate Lvl: 0
Min Gem Value: 15
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Resist Elements
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

See Invisibility
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

Shadow Ghostly Visage (effect from Greater Shadow Conjuration)
Innate Lvl: 5
Min Gem Value: 480
Caster Lvl of released spell: 9
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Shadow Invisibility (effect from Shadow Conjuration)
Innate Lvl: 4
Min Gem Value: 240
Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Shadow Mage Armor (effect from Shadow Conjuration)
Innate Lvl: 4
Min Gem Value: 240
Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Shadow Minor Globe of Invulnerability (effect from Greater Shadow Conjuration)
Innate Lvl: 5
Min Gem Value: 480
Caster Lvl of released spell: 9
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard


Shield
Innate Lvl: 1
Min Gem Value: 30
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Stoneskin
Innate Lvl: 4
Min Gem Value: 240
Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

True Strike
Innate Lvl: 1
Min Gem Value: 30
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Sorcerer, Wizard

Ultravision
Innate Lvl: 2
Min Gem Value: 60
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard

War Cry
Innate Lvl: 4
Min Gem Value: 240
Caster Lvl of released spell: 7
Created by: Bard

Wounding Whispers
Innate Lvl: 3
Min Gem Value: 120
Caster Lvl of released spell: 5
Created by: Bard



« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 05:12:33 PM by Green Monster »
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Green Monster

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2012, 03:46:38 AM »
Oh, by the way, not just any gem will do. It must be a gem specially cut to contain the arcane energies involved. These should be for sale at most of the places where you buy scrolls, and possibly in the loot tables, but rare in loot tables. They would have names like "Attunable Gem, Cantrip", "Attunable Gem, First Circle", "Attunable Gem, Second Circle". Et cetera. The gem you cast on must be of the proper level or higher, so if you find an "Attunable Gem, Third Circle" in loot you can turn it into an attuned gem of any of the above mentioned eligible spells of innate level 3 or lower.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 05:07:07 PM by Green Monster »
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2012, 11:02:03 AM »
240gp for Stoneskin (7) is probably erring on the side of cheap.

This is also a hell of a lot of work to code from fresh unless you happen to have developed some modules priorly...

Overall, though, I think this steps a lot on the toes of scroll-scribing. I'd rather see a functional system for scribing scrolls implemented than inventing new things whole-cloth. Not to say there aren't some nice ideas but...
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2012, 02:00:02 PM »
240gp for Stoneskin (7) is probably erring on the side of cheap.

This is also a hell of a lot of work to code from fresh unless you happen to have developed some modules priorly...

Overall, though, I think this steps a lot on the toes of scroll-scribing. I'd rather see a functional system for scribing scrolls implemented than inventing new things whole-cloth. Not to say there aren't some nice ideas but...

Agreed

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2012, 03:01:22 PM »
I just fell in love with this idea. Kudos.
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2012, 03:14:44 PM »
240gp for Stoneskin (7) is probably erring on the side of cheap.

This is also a hell of a lot of work to code from fresh unless you happen to have developed some modules priorly...

Overall, though, I think this steps a lot on the toes of scroll-scribing. I'd rather see a functional system for scribing scrolls implemented than inventing new things whole-cloth. Not to say there aren't some nice ideas but...

I would love a scribe scroll system :)

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2012, 03:19:25 PM »
It does what Scribe Scroll should do, this is very creative, but to me it seems driven by an expressed dissatisfaction on what is available to clerics.

Quote
Right now, herbalism is a god-send to clerics.
Actually, almost any PC can become adept at Herbalism, even ones without the most ideal scores, and I think it's a real god send to the people that don't have healing in the first place.
Quote
Due to the ability scores involved, they're naturally good at it, and having a boatload of healing potions that they can actually use on other people means that they can (and do) buff themselves to kingdom come without fear of being short on healing. This is like having extra spells. Meanwhile, mages are naturally good at alchemy, but how does that help them?
I would point out that a large variety of a mages spells are not directly useful to the mage, so it seems reasonable to me that the products of Alchemy are made for use by melee classes, or anyone other than the mage.  (Which, almost any PC can become adept at Alchemy)  Also, having a boatload of potions is a result of player efforts, anyone can do this, and no one is gathering components with more ease than you (except maybe those with higher base movement rate)

Quote
If implemented, this might actually open the door for some spell-swords other than clerics!


Some clerics are monk like, scholarly even, but many priests in Medieval times wore the banners of their deity to war.  This is represented by the clerics available armor and weapon proficiencies, base attack progression, and saves.  That clerics are effective warriors for about as long as I can hold my breath is just a feature of the implementation of the archetype, which as players we can invoke with the variability that we personally desire.  In other words, if you would like to play a cleric spell sword, or if you'd prefer to make a more cloistered concept, then feel free.

Otherwise to me it seems like instead of enjoying the new culture and flavors of this persistant world, there seems to be a roaring personal "crusade" against the cleric class here. (pun intentional)

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2012, 04:07:43 PM »
240gp for Stoneskin (7) is probably erring on the side of cheap.

This is also a hell of a lot of work to code from fresh unless you happen to have developed some modules priorly...

Overall, though, I think this steps a lot on the toes of scroll-scribing. I'd rather see a functional system for scribing scrolls implemented than inventing new things whole-cloth. Not to say there aren't some nice ideas but...

240 is the base price. The price in stores would likely be about 3 times that, unless you have an appraise of 20.

I think we should have scrolls too, but there's two problems with scrolls that make them not really suited to the niche I'm going for. 1) They have class limitations. and 2) they are affected by arcane casting failure while in armour.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 04:14:40 PM by Green Monster »
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2012, 04:13:47 PM »
It does what Scribe Scroll should do, this is very creative, but to me it seems driven by an expressed dissatisfaction on what is available to clerics

No, it's more driven by a dissatisfaction with the lack of viable methods of creating an arcane magic using fighter. Still spell feat is fine, but it also means that you can't ever cast your highest lvl of spells in armour, and the whole "taking your armour off to buff then putting it back on" thing is annoying and breaks the flow of rp. It also does NOT do what scribe scroll does. You can't learn a spell from a gem, and you can't give a scroll to a pure class fighter to use, and you can't cast from a scroll while in armour here.


Otherwise to me it seems like instead of enjoying the new culture and flavors of this persistant world, there seems to be a roaring personal "crusade" against the cleric class here. (pun intentional)

On the contrary, I deeply love the setting here. That's why I came back. But having come back I'm reminded of my dislike of the systems here. The removal of scribe scroll and craft wand horribly limits the "spell-sword" build, and considering the cuts in attack bonus and hit points that such a build requires compared to fighters or clerics, I don't think it's a build type that needs to be short-changed. I don't understand why the dev team decided that removing systems that are both in the OC and canon was a good idea, but my efforts to bring back wand crafting around 18 months ago met with derision. So, I thought up a replacement that creates single-use items, unlike wands, but can be used by anyone and thus does more for inter-pc trade.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 04:26:08 PM by Green Monster »
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2012, 04:31:14 PM »
It does what Scribe Scroll should do, this is very creative, but to me it seems driven by an expressed dissatisfaction on what is available to clerics

No, it's more driven by a dissatisfaction with the lack of viable methods of creating an arcane magic using fighter. Still spell feat is fine, but it also means that you can't ever cast your highest lvl of spells in armour, and the whole "taking your armour off to buff then putting it back on" thing is annoying and breaks the flow of rp. It also does NOT do what scribe scroll does. You can't learn a spell from a gem, and you can't give a scroll to a pure class fighter to use, and you can't cast from a scroll while in armour here.


I don't know of any core aspect of the Dungeons and Dragons game that caters to an "arcane magic using fighter."  That sounds like Fable, Dark Souls, or some other game.  It has long been the case in D&D fantasy that the somatic gestures required to call upon Arcane power are limited by wearing armor.  Still Spell is the kindest compromise ever, that never arrived until after AD&D.  You should never be able to cast your highest level spell in armor, being able to cast your second highest in armor is very, very powerful.

Besides, if you don't need your wizard buddy to buff up and do a dungeon - who says these items will not simply be hoarded by non-casters so they can solo more effectively?

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2012, 04:34:01 PM »
Ovidiu, I think the ship's long since sailed in terms of debating the active use, availability and frequency of magic in regards to setting, intended function and context, especially in regards to Ravenloft.. :lol: Best just give up, seeing as how it's an already lost cause.

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2012, 04:41:36 PM »
Well, the fighter will have to get them from someone. These are not items that will appear in the loot tables or be in the stores. And maybe people who've been here for years have a wizard or cleric buddy of approximately their own level, but I, for one, have never played on a server where you can reliably find a well-balanced group to go adventuring with, all of whom have the time to do so when I do and feel inclined to do so when I do. NEVER.


Nothing, absolutely nothing, will make soloing safe or a good idea. You solo, then if the spawn is higher than what you expected and you die, who will bring you back? The cry of "oh, this will make people solo" is a ludicrously spurious argument. Those who solo will do so regardless, until they get it through their heads what a bad idea it is. Those who don't aren't going to do so just because they have a single-use gem of stoneskin that they had to pay over 1000 for.
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2012, 04:51:24 PM »
Interesting. I like the idea and the purpose behind it seems to allow more flow of these very Duskblade esque characters. I only worry that now we'll have sorcerers whom already have many spell slots, using these as their "Buff" spells and then keeping all the others to hold spells like Empowered Fireballs, effectivly giving them too much kill power.

I would love to see those sellable items able to be used for something besides Vistani fodder though.

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2012, 04:55:03 PM »
Furthermore, it is my intention that pure fighter types horde a few of these gems so that if they've got a group together of similarly leveled and similarly aligned folks, but none happen to be a spellcaster, they can still go out and do things instead of either A) sitting around in the outskirts or B) having the paladin put aside his differences with the necromancer. Having a single-use gem of stoneskin that he had to pay well over 1200 for is not going to make the fighter think he can always do without someone who'll cast it on him for free. (And I fully expect that, if implemented, the dev team would raise the prices of the attuneable gems, unless the store's markup is more than I think).
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2012, 05:00:30 PM »
Interesting. I like the idea and the purpose behind it seems to allow more flow of these very Duskblade esque characters. I only worry that now we'll have sorcerers whom already have many spell slots, using these as their "Buff" spells and then keeping all the others to hold spells like Empowered Fireballs, effectivly giving them too much kill power.

I would love to see those sellable items able to be used for something besides Vistani fodder though.

A sorc has to be lvl 11 to cast an empowered fireball, a lvl 11 sorc is not going to suddenly experience a huge power boost from this. I don't think having the ability to cast protective spells on a couple more fighters, at a cost of a few thousand gold to herself, is going to make her a Goddess.

Considering the costs involved, she'd be better off keeping a few of these handy for an emergency, and selling some to others, rather than using them all the time. Otherwise she'd be losing money from adventuring unless the coin available from dungeons is much more than any dungeon I've been too, in which case we just adjust the cost of the attuneable gems up.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 05:04:34 PM by Green Monster »
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2012, 05:05:47 PM »
Nothing, absolutely nothing, will make soloing safe or a good idea. You solo, then if the spawn is higher than what you expected and you die, who will bring you back? The cry of "oh, this will make people solo" is a ludicrously spurious argument. Those who solo will do so regardless, until they get it through their heads what a bad idea it is. Those who don't aren't going to do so just because they have a single-use gem of stoneskin that they had to pay over 1000 for.
Sorry but I don't think you realize you are voicing your own assumptions and that the reality is different. If I can obtain the attuned gems you have listed here I have multiple non-caster characters that could solo their way to level 16 or higher without need of others and as reslut could solo every craft all the way to mastery as well and would hardly need anyone for anything PvP or PvM with the exception of the highest level dungeons where a cleric casting heal would be needed.  I don't have the soloing mindset but if I can do it then many others can too. Soloing can be done with non casters now actually, but at least its not cost efficient enough to be worth it as a common practice, with each surrogate of actual spellcasters you add to the server you lessen the need for making relationships with the people who can do what you can not and at its very core that is what the anti-soloing designing of the server is all about, fostering the IC and OOC motivation to cultivate relationship that further your own goals.

Personally the attune gem idea crosses over from low magic to high magic feel to me, if not mechanics. I just would imagine it would fit in better with other settings rather than Ravenloft but its not outright impossible to be compatible too.

Level 11 sorcerors need zero help supporting a party to explore with, btw. A wizard perhaps, but not a sorceror.


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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2012, 05:20:59 PM »
but at least its not cost efficient enough to be worth it as a common practice,

Are you assuming that these gems will be free?

The base price of a level 5 gem is 480 (negotiable by those with a better idea of average economy balance than I), which means that what you PAY at the STORE is 1500 - 2000 (and, again, this could easily go up). After the arcane caster buys it, he or she has to then store the spell in it. Your fighter can't just waltz into the store and buy a gem of ethereal visage. He or she has to buy it from the arcanist, who will likely want to make some kind of profit. So....  I really don't see how this would be a cost effective substitute for having a spellcaster with you. What it would do is make it so that if you want to go do things and can't find a spellcaster who's alignment and level are compatible, you can. Just don't expect to make a profit from it.

And, frankly, on server where you can get to level 20 just from sitting around and chatting, gold is far, far, far more precious than xp.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 05:23:20 PM by Green Monster »
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2012, 05:37:36 PM »
i dont understand, why would i buy from the store when i could get it directly
from the caster? 

if your.friends with a caster ,get them for free

more items to hoarde, encouraging solo

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2012, 05:56:22 PM »
What might work on low level, low magic CoA doesn't necessarily work here. The level of power and ability to accrue wealth is far greater on PoTM. Personally I'd like to see the bard song and animal companion changes implemented here than the gem attuning.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 06:00:29 PM by SwanSong »

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2012, 06:43:51 PM »
i dont understand, why would i buy from the store when i could get it directly
from the caster?  

if your.friends with a caster ,get them for free

more items to hoarde, encouraging solo

The caster has to buy the gem to be attuned. At great cost. If you'd read the whole thread, you'd know that you can't attune just any old aventurine you find in loot. It has to be a gem specially cut to hold the magical energies. So unless your buddy is both very wealthy and very generous, you're not getting them for free. If you're very luck, you're getting them at cost. And your buddy can't churn out a hundred of these a day, either. If your buddy can cast 3 lvl 5 spells per rest cycle, that's how many lvl 5 gems he can produce per rest.

What might work on low level, low magic CoA doesn't necessarily work here. The level of power and ability to accrue wealth is far greater on PoTM. Personally I'd like to see the bard song and animal companion changes implemented here than the gem attuning.

If you mean CoA's Celestial Chorus bard song item, I'd have to vote no on that, despite the fact that I love playing bards of all sorts. On CoA my lvl 7 bard / 4 fighter can cause an entire party, including herself, to regenerate 4 hp per round for ten rounds, 7 times a day. That's just too powerful. She can likely solo just about anywhere on the server, but doesn't because I never find just killing monsters without anyone to talk to fun. If I wanted to do that, I'd play the OC.

I would, though, like to see the power of the bard song spread out a bit more across levels. Right now, it's just "meh" until lvl 11, then suddenly, drastically starts getting more powerful every level after.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 06:59:34 PM by Green Monster »
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2012, 06:49:51 PM »
Accurate clerical domains would cut down those trickery/magic combos.  :hide:

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2012, 06:54:32 PM »
Accurate clerical domains would cut down those trickery/magic combos.  :hide:

You mean there's no system in place here to keep clerics from choosing whatever domains they want regardless of deity?  :shock:
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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2012, 07:01:31 PM »

Personally the attune gem idea crosses over from low magic to high magic feel to me, if not mechanics. I just would imagine it would fit in better with other settings rather than Ravenloft but its not outright impossible to be compatible too.

I find it hilarious that whenever I point out that we're already knee-deep in High Magic as far as the feel and atmosphere goes, you're amidst those to constantly tell me I'm wrong. >__> Oh, but how the winds turn.

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2012, 07:05:18 PM »

Personally the attune gem idea crosses over from low magic to high magic feel to me, if not mechanics. I just would imagine it would fit in better with other settings rather than Ravenloft but its not outright impossible to be compatible too.

I find it hilarious that whenever I point out that we're already knee-deep in High Magic as far as the feel and atmosphere goes, you're amidst those to constantly tell me I'm wrong. >__> Oh, but how the winds turn.

We could use a domain like Lamordia to be a bane to all casters.

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Re: Attune Gem
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2012, 07:08:22 PM »
I dunno, I still see a lot of problems here.

The very stated objective of your goal -- reduce the need of arcane casters in partying groups -- creates conflict with the server's policy of encouraging partying groups to band together. You can argue that the high cost of these will create a disincentive to use items whole soloing or whatever, but that can't negate the fundamental acknowledgement that it will create some increment towards the undesirable. Plus, basing anything on the value of gold is hairy at high levels (see later point).

Then, as stated, there's a conflict with the scroll economy (if I can use the term). Whether this is a good or a bad thing is at best an undecided question. While there's certainly been some voices who'd like to see UMD scrolls nerfed, doing so by effectively opening the floodgates for level 1 - 5 is a questionable approach when most people probably want to keep magic rarer. (Remember that low magic doesn't necessarily mean that magic is weak; just uncommon.) Regardless of how you feel about it, at the very least you must acknowledge that you are raising a big question, and this is being done for an uncertain gain (see first point).

There's also the problem that gold doesn't really represent a significant stumbling block to high levels. Some high level PCs have bank accounts of millions of fang (admittedly usually traders), and even if you're not deliberately going out of your way to save up coins, it's generally not so hard to end up with a few ten thousand spare gold fang along the way by, say, lvl 15.

Which is all to say that, even if you make the effort of making your suggestion entirely economically coherent with pre-existing systems of scrolls, alchemy and herbalism, it still is going to be potentially distorted by people who have more gold reserves than most players can conceive of.

And finally, really the biggest point, is that this is not a modest suggestion in terms of development scope. Who is going to put in the development work to create this system? Are you? If not, then who? I don't mean to needle you with this point, merely be practical; if you can't get it built then it's mostly an exercise in futility to design it. Developer hours are a precious commodity with various other projects in the pipeline, sometimes for months if not years; you might be able to persuade one of them of the value of your project to take on more work load but honestly I suspect your chances will be better if you're willing to step up to the plate yourself. If you can't or won't do that, well... good luck. :p
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