You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...  (Read 10299 times)

Ercvadasz

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1098
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2012, 05:16:21 PM »
There are 3 such dungeons ml temple ..... and zeklos the third you will have to find wich has a great deal of loot

I just made a simple comparison, why Zeklos is not really visited.
Currently playing:
Rudrig von Rachenthall - the travelling merchant

dutchy

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 4706
  • Potm's own forum troll
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2012, 05:50:29 PM »
And I gave a reason that its not all that bad

There are tons of areas that could use more visitors  but that's how it is

Tagdar Stonebeard- the lone statue
Mihas Mandruleanu- He is the law
Gurdan- priest of the allfather, and current head of the silverhand trading company

Ercvadasz

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1098
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2012, 05:56:10 PM »
And I gave a reason that its not all that bad

There are tons of areas that could use more visitors  but that's how it is

I am trying to be constructive, and you are jsut trolling again. I think there is a huge difference. I could have mentioned other areas as well, but i wanted to make a point, for which one comparison was quite enough.
Currently playing:
Rudrig von Rachenthall - the travelling merchant

dutchy

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 4706
  • Potm's own forum troll
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #53 on: December 29, 2012, 06:39:09 PM »
Trolling means joking I am not making a joke here now am I

If you fail to see what I am saying then I am saying it wrong or you lack the insight.

Il try it again ok ?

You nag about the zeklos keep and. My point was there is enough to choocr from we simply have loads of areas so some would indeed be less visited.

Tagdar Stonebeard- the lone statue
Mihas Mandruleanu- He is the law
Gurdan- priest of the allfather, and current head of the silverhand trading company

Major Tom

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
  • "Nobody has margaritas with pizza!"
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #54 on: December 29, 2012, 06:42:03 PM »
Trolling means joking I am not making a joke here now am I

Uh.. no, that's not what trolling means. More accurately:

If you fail to see what I am saying then I am saying it wrong or you lack the insight.

Il try it again ok ?
What you just said here is a form of trolling, by basically suggesting that someone lacks insight because they disagree with you. Trolling means using logical fallacies to provoke hostile reaction.

The more you know~

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."

dutchy

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 4706
  • Potm's own forum troll
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #55 on: December 29, 2012, 06:53:06 PM »
Oh you noticed  good cause I dislike accusations  wich shows in ky response.  

But I am glad you came to the rescue major ..............


One more reply from each then we get back on topic ok ?

Tagdar Stonebeard- the lone statue
Mihas Mandruleanu- He is the law
Gurdan- priest of the allfather, and current head of the silverhand trading company

Major Tom

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
  • "Nobody has margaritas with pizza!"
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #56 on: December 29, 2012, 06:54:23 PM »
I was just correcting your statement, really. You said trolling = joking, and you weren't joking. You're right. You were just trolling.

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."

Ercvadasz

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1098
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2012, 08:11:58 PM »
Dutchy before you further derail the topic, please read what i have posted. I brought up ONE example, to compare it to the morninglordian crypts to make a point, nothing more and nothing less, i choose the zeklos crypts because i felt like it.
I have said that yes there are other places that do need love, and need to get with the ml crypts in pair...
I have brought up the Zeklos as one example, nothing more and less, i compared creatures, challenge, reward, xp, loot.

So yes what Tom says is true you were just trolling, and trying to derail a topic, if you did not know or realise what my aim was with my post, i am sorry, next time ask, and I shall tell it to you. Or try to rephrase it.

To give insight about what i am meaning, i could name you just as well 3-5 other dungeons easily that need the love too.

But the meaning of my post was to show how ridiculously rewarding the ML crypts is, comparing it with just one of these other dungeons. (rewarding till quite a decent level, for which it was not intended!)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 09:13:39 PM by Ercvadasz »
Currently playing:
Rudrig von Rachenthall - the travelling merchant

dutchy

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 4706
  • Potm's own forum troll
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2012, 09:49:23 PM »
Dutchy before you further derail the topic, please read what i have posted. I brought up ONE example, to compare it to the morninglordian crypts to make a point, nothing more and nothing less, i choose the zeklos crypts because i felt like it.
I have said that yes there are other places that do need love, and need to get with the ml crypts in pair...
I have brought up the Zeklos as one example, nothing more and less, i compared creatures, challenge, reward, xp, loot.

So yes what Tom says is true you were just trolling, and trying to derail a topic, if you did not know or realise what my aim was with my post, i am sorry, next time ask, and I shall tell it to you. Or try to rephrase it.

To give insight about what i am meaning, i could name you just as well 3-5 other dungeons easily that need the love too.

But the meaning of my post was to show how ridiculously rewarding the ML crypts is, comparing it with just one of these other dungeons. (rewarding till quite a decent level, for which it was not intended!)


if you wish to see it as trolling after i even said it wasnt and that i even tried to explain what i said even more then sorry i am out of options beside my native tongue.

i gues you will read what you wish to read.

but once more the first reply and the one that i made to explain it better where not ment to troll.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 10:25:13 PM by dutchy »

Tagdar Stonebeard- the lone statue
Mihas Mandruleanu- He is the law
Gurdan- priest of the allfather, and current head of the silverhand trading company

Major Tom

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
  • "Nobody has margaritas with pizza!"
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2012, 09:51:52 PM »
You said you were not joking, assuming that 'trolling = joking'. I explained, simply, that 'trolling =/= joking', and then explained what trolling was. Big difference there. Perhaps you should read up on what trolling means before using the word and creating misunderstandings.

"A monumental black hole. A swirling headstone marking the spot where we used to live and play and slaughter the innocent."

Craugh

  • The Underworld
  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 68
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2012, 09:53:48 PM »
Off topic but i am so sorry about you duergar diving onto those two sword spiders to save me haha

That would have been me. I still chuckle remembering that. My Duergar, on the other hand, will happily lop off your head IC next time he sees you. Or at least try. No hard feelings.  ;)


On topic: I just went down to the bottom of the crypts with a large party, on my lvl 4 Duergar. It was a breeze and measly xp because there were only archers and priests, up to the very end. No warriors, knights, or huecevas in sight. So either there was a low spawn, or the spawning strength was lowered by a DM or such. If it -was- a strength change, please keep it that way. It's a much more consistent difficulty for low levels. Case in point: Kilvin's never going to bother going down to the bottom again, unless RP drags him on a rescue mission.

Crimson Shuriken

  • Happy Shoulders
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1006
  • Flying through the air with deadly intent!
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #61 on: December 29, 2012, 10:30:51 PM »
Its because some of us can clear it, and it takes a while to grow back. Against most of what is opined in this thread.


I'm so casual, my shoes look like feet.

Time_Stomped

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 342
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #62 on: December 30, 2012, 08:28:02 AM »
When Donner gets back from NCW, I'll probably sweep in and kill the more annoying spawns and leave the rest and leave the loot.   Used to do that with the juju zombies that would instant-kill lowbies.  Other than the bottom of the crypts, of course. @_@
Istavan Donner

MadJKevlar

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
  • Ah! the generals! (is AKA WhenWolvesHoundThePrey)
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2013, 04:17:25 AM »
Off topic but i am so sorry about you duergar diving onto those two sword spiders to save me haha

That would have been me. I still chuckle remembering that. My Duergar, on the other hand, will happily lop off your head IC next time he sees you. Or at least try. No hard feelings.  ;)


On topic: I just went down to the bottom of the crypts with a large party, on my lvl 4 Duergar. It was a breeze and measly xp because there were only archers and priests, up to the very end. No warriors, knights, or huecevas in sight. So either there was a low spawn, or the spawning strength was lowered by a DM or such. If it -was- a strength change, please keep it that way. It's a much more consistent difficulty for low levels. Case in point: Kilvin's never going to bother going down to the bottom again, unless RP drags him on a rescue mission.

I like how trecherous the crypts are, its comon place on most servers the lowest end of all dungoens to train lowbies is normaly a crypt full of mindless zombies whare you can likely grind to about level six, on that basis every one new will head strait for the crypt thinking yeah i got this and then mortality hits you... it sets the tone for the server lol and it forces people to strike alliances rather then just charge around the whole thing solo wasting the spawns that could other wise prove to be a little rp adventure for a group of people.... does sux when you cant find a party though.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 04:19:10 AM by MadJKevlar »

What does the scanner see

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Reclamation has begun
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #64 on: January 18, 2013, 04:44:23 PM »
I was in there last night and just...wow. Everything was normal until the new areas were hit. The actual enemies themselves weren't anything ridiculously high but the sheer amount was staggering. I counted no less than thirty enemies in the final room. Majority of which were archers.  The spawns themselves are fine, bu the numbers really need to be nerfed. Badly.
What does the scanner see? Into the head? Down into the heart? Does it see into me, into us? Clearly or darkly? I hope it sees clearly, because I can't any longer see into myself. I see only murk. I hope for everyone's sake the scanners do better.

Kendaric

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #65 on: January 18, 2013, 07:35:14 PM »
I was in there last night and just...wow. Everything was normal until the new areas were hit. The actual enemies themselves weren't anything ridiculously high but the sheer amount was staggering. I counted no less than thirty enemies in the final room. Majority of which were archers.  The spawns themselves are fine, bu the numbers really need to be nerfed. Badly.

Agreed, the amount of enemies is somewhat on the extremely high side. While it does provide an epic fight, it also makes the fight hard to coordinate and is a nightmare if you have lower level characters with you.

Smitehammer

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
  • Frohe Weihnachten
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2013, 01:15:44 AM »
The same could be said for ALL of the low level dungeons.  Bahkna Rakna or whatever they're called, fire beetles, Von Zeklos Crypts - they're worth next to zero XP even for low levels, but their sheer numbers mean certain death for any low level party attempting it without knowing exactly what to expect.  What would be MUCH better for low level areas is a very small number of higher level things.  For instance, Bakna Rakna cave?  Instead of having a cave full of 15 level .5 goblins and 20 .25 level gremishka, have ONE level 5 big mean goblin thing.  The lowbies would actually get XP from it and it would be less dangerous for lowbies.

Really, apply this everywhere.  This server has a weird idea for what's 'gothic horror'. 

"One Frankenstein's monster?  Nah.  Five HUNDRED Frankenstein's monsters?  Now THAT'S gothic horror!"  But while a cave full of dozens and dozens and dozens of werewolves is silly æsthetically, the 'low level' dungeons are just plain worthless for everyone involved because of swarming of negligibly leveled hordes of bad guys.
Wouldn't the world be better off if we took nonsense more seriously?

Zarathustra217

  • Lead director, main scripter, nutty geek, Community Council
  • Administrator
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 12674
  • a.k.a. Søren
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2013, 05:33:31 AM »
I was in there last night and just...wow. Everything was normal until the new areas were hit. The actual enemies themselves weren't anything ridiculously high but the sheer amount was staggering. I counted no less than thirty enemies in the final room. Majority of which were archers.  The spawns themselves are fine, bu the numbers really need to be nerfed. Badly.

Agreed, the amount of enemies is somewhat on the extremely high side. While it does provide an epic fight, it also makes the fight hard to coordinate and is a nightmare if you have lower level characters with you.

A "nightmare"?! Well, that does sound like gothic horror to me ;)

Sometimes, meeting a swarm is an element of horror, but I agree that too many critters can make things feel more repetitive than they are horrifying though. The reason you still see it (both here and in most games) is that it's hard to make every battle so prolonged and interesting as you can in PnP - especially when it comes to dungeons that you have to visit over and over. If there is just one big bad monster at the end, people will soon just run through the place and go straight to the kill - and clearing a dungeon would take 2 minutes.

ManticoreRO

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 809
  • Real Barovian
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2013, 05:37:06 AM »
  As I see it, crypts are supposed to be extremy dangerous and a nightmare, especially for lower levels. And I always wondered why there aren't traps (except the final sarchopagus). This would make players think twice before going there alone.
Elena Vasilovici - "Better die for something than live for naught"

What does the scanner see

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Reclamation has begun
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #69 on: January 19, 2013, 06:35:55 AM »
I was in there last night and just...wow. Everything was normal until the new areas were hit. The actual enemies themselves weren't anything ridiculously high but the sheer amount was staggering. I counted no less than thirty enemies in the final room. Majority of which were archers.  The spawns themselves are fine, bu the numbers really need to be nerfed. Badly.

Agreed, the amount of enemies is somewhat on the extremely high side. While it does provide an epic fight, it also makes the fight hard to coordinate and is a nightmare if you have lower level characters with you.

A "nightmare"?! Well, that does sound like gothic horror to me ;)

Sometimes, meeting a swarm is an element of horror, but I agree that too many critters can make things feel more repetitive than they are horrifying though. The reason you still see it (both here and in most games) is that it's hard to make every battle so prolonged and interesting as you can in PnP - especially when it comes to dungeons that you have to visit over and over. If there is just one big bad monster at the end, people will soon just run through the place and go straight to the kill - and clearing a dungeon would take 2 minutes.

I don't know. This was a bit much, especially given how those areas are laid out. Dm Decay can vouch for the er...excessivenes of the spawns that night.
What does the scanner see? Into the head? Down into the heart? Does it see into me, into us? Clearly or darkly? I hope it sees clearly, because I can't any longer see into myself. I see only murk. I hope for everyone's sake the scanners do better.

Zarathustra217

  • Lead director, main scripter, nutty geek, Community Council
  • Administrator
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 12674
  • a.k.a. Søren
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #70 on: January 19, 2013, 06:41:53 AM »
Well, I've tried for now to extend the delay between when things spawn during the final battle, let's see if that helps.

Silverfox

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • Goggles
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #71 on: January 19, 2013, 06:52:59 AM »
The difficult part is perhaps to balance it so that people are fighting squads of mid levels, instead of one big bad, or a horde of hungry midgets with albionism.
A most troublesome Fox.

Zhernebog

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #72 on: January 19, 2013, 10:05:29 AM »
The difficult part is perhaps to balance it so that people are fighting squads of mid levels, instead of one big bad, or a horde of hungry midgets with albionism.
I've found a fun little test to see if there are simply too many swarms in a single location. If the following happens I make a note of it and semd it to the dev team for analysis:
If great cleave pops up more than four times in a row, weve got an issue.

And that grimishka cave is worthless expwise, and much more dangerous than several other caves nearbye. The damnable little things eventually just crit parties to death by random chance.

Also I have noticed that swarms show up in a lot of places, while higher level swarms(mummies in sotek temple) provide a fun'hold the door' scenario, theyre utterly worthless combat wise and it feels more a chore waiting for the frontline to slowly hedge the garden of ancient undead

Zarathustra217

  • Lead director, main scripter, nutty geek, Community Council
  • Administrator
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 12674
  • a.k.a. Søren
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #73 on: January 19, 2013, 10:57:29 AM »
Swarms aren't inherently an issue though.

Zhernebog

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
« Reply #74 on: January 19, 2013, 11:10:37 AM »
Swarms aren't inherently an issue though.
They certainly are not a technical issue, they work as intended.
They just often aren't worth the trouble killing/the exp does not reflect the challenge, imho.
I can't imagine fighting them without great cleave, and can't ever remember seeing anyone wanting to go fight grimishkas.
derp, off-topic post. I'll move this over to the correct spot.


To stay on topic, has anyone seen a difference in the spawn rate?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 11:12:56 AM by Zhernebog »