Author Topic: NCW Characters  (Read 11859 times)

Crimson Shuriken

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2012, 03:42:54 PM »
Its just been a few days, everything within the NCW area is "dooable" by the end of the week, with the possible exception of Wagner mines.
The claustrophia of being together is unavoidable unless the very module was changed, for one week no less.


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Feronius

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2012, 04:12:36 PM »
Well, the complaint of people swarming the same place like flies has been resurfacing over and over again, not just within NCW events.
So I wasn't actually suggesting to have it changed a bit -just- for this week, it might be good to look at a more permanent change.

I dare to say a lot of the areas currently aren't badly designed at all, but could definitely use improvement.
Especially when it comes to balancing out spawns to the level the area is aiming for. It will actually deal with the "high levels keep farming the 'low level' dungeons" issue as well.

BahamutZ3RO

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2012, 04:16:29 PM »
Well, the complaint of people swarming the same place like flies has been resurfacing over and over again, not just within NCW events.
So I wasn't actually suggesting to have it changed a bit -just- for this week, it might be good to look at a more permanent change.

I dare to say a lot of the areas currently aren't badly designed at all, but could definitely use improvement.
Especially when it comes to balancing out spawns to the level the area is aiming for. It will actually deal with the "high levels keep farming the 'low level' dungeons" issue as well.

I doubt it. Certain high levels farm low level dungeons simply because they can. They don't need to get a group to do it, they can just walk in, take the stuff, and sell it for a bit of coin or collect whatever reagents/materials they're looking for. I've seen it come up a few times. You're not going to change human nature by changing the way the module works, the best you can do is roll with it and try to be the change.
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Feronius

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2012, 04:35:23 PM »
There is still a massive difference between encouraging this kind of behaviour through the mechanics or discouraging it.
There will always be scumbags, but that's not an excuse to simply not improve anything at all, is it?

The fact is, tuning down some dungeon spawns (perhaps tuning them up elsewhere) to more appropriately match the level of the area will bring more enjoyment to the levels it's actually ment for. And make it more accesible for them, while at the same discourging the higher levels from farming those areas, as the rewards will be significantly less. That there will still be the occasional bad apple who farms it regardless ("because he can") is not a valid reason to not make the server even better.



These complaints have been here, more or less unchanged, even before I start playing on this server. The issue is just more painfully obvious during NCW events.

Zhernebog

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2012, 06:23:59 PM »
If you equate character progression and growth with mechanical numbers, you might be on the wrong server.

Also sure is like xbox live in here.

Misted_Horror

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #55 on: December 23, 2012, 06:28:01 PM »
If you equate character progression and growth with mechanical numbers, you might be on the wrong server.

Also sure is like xbox live in here.

"but I like levelling up and -character progression- whether it be RP-wise or mechanical"

Zhernebog

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #56 on: December 23, 2012, 06:33:20 PM »
Yes. Exactly. Mechanical progression should matter about as much as what you put in ooc notes on an rp server.

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2012, 06:34:10 PM »
All that needs be done is to lock the gate going down into the catacombs and have it something only Lizuca can unlock RPwise. This forces people to seek alternative ways into the crypt. Which means they visit the 90 other dungeons that lead to the Morninglord crypts. lol.

Crimson Shuriken

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2012, 07:04:23 PM »
Yes. Exactly. Mechanical progression should matter about as much as what you put in ooc notes on an rp server.
False.  those skills that get better, those feats you choose, those ability increases, they matter A LOT in this type of roleplay game, they define huge chunks of what you are portraying. RP SERVER must be some misnomer otherwise, this is a roleplaying game where the feat choices are supposed to be the character, and not necessarily (but not necessarily not either) about power.  If you don't care about the mechanics in a roleplaying game there are actually rulesets out there for roleplaying games that have less interwoven connections of mechanics/story than D&D does.


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Zhernebog

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #59 on: December 23, 2012, 09:34:01 PM »
Yes. Exactly. Mechanical progression should matter about as much as what you put in ooc notes on an rp server.
False.  those skills that get better, those feats you choose, those ability increases, they matter A LOT in this type of roleplay game, they define huge chunks of what you are portraying. RP SERVER must be some misnomer otherwise, this is a roleplaying game where the feat choices are supposed to be the character, and not necessarily (but not necessarily not either) about power.  If you don't care about the mechanics in a roleplaying game there are actually rulesets out there for roleplaying games that have less interwoven connections of mechanics/story than D&D does.
And yet half of this thread is about how people that do precisely as you suggest should just go suck an egg for how poorly built they are.
Numbers don't matter for roleplaying, they matter for rollplaying, a poor derivative.

Crimson Shuriken

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2012, 09:55:15 PM »
No offense, but a large part of the disconnect is the skill of player first and their willingness to play their role to the benefit of others.  Builds can make it easier but they don't define anything.
You can give me a craptastic character I can keep alive and level up just fine, its not about build strictly. Its about identifying your strengths and minimizing risk which is true no matter the build. I've played some horrid builds on this server, I know. I have a 10 str, 10 dex, 10 con pure human rogue of mid levels who I dont think has ever died that I recall.  He was a Sherlocke Holmes wannabe, and a 10/10/10 rogue during low levels, I would probably say is as hard as it gets without spells or AC, or hp, or anything really and that was back in a harder era for the server really where varnishes did not exist and archery sucked except AAs.  You don't have to build specifically for any purpose, but SOMEONE has to be able to stand toe to toe and SOMEONE has to be able to support etc. Its a team based ruleset and a team based game really so if no one has strengths then no one can do anything. My "weak" builds tend to know they are weak and look to make good connections with a priest or a wizard and spend all their time in dungeons making sure people get healed with items or fixed of various minor ailments by healing skill or herbalism craft etc.  Its a game where craftiness and knowing your role go a long way, and truly PotM is great for that, roles really shine here.


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Honoun

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2012, 09:58:05 PM »
In all fairness I must be one of the few who doesn't constantly delve down into the Morninglord Crypt. Asta went down there a few times early in her career, Bupi only went only a few times more. Mupi went once, got accosted and accused for stealing by another player so never went down again. Kira Has been down maybe once or twice, and this New Character week Gupi has been down there twice I think, both times though she couldn't hit anything at all as all her weapons are useless. Did make me wonder though how the server expected lowbies to fair when the starter gear they get is all but useless in such situations. No amount of strategising was going the be all that effective when nobody could damage the critters there sufficiently enough anyway, most of us couldn't harm them at all and I think only one player could and he was the one who died, but then the Boss Monsters were in the corridors so we couldn't bottle neck them in a doorway or what have you. In the end I think we all just gave up. In any case considering the infrequency that my chars go down there seeing the current spawn was like... What the... And this is level one?

I get tells from other players occasionally asking me how the carnage is and they seem to think it funny, and to tell the truth I laugh as well, but my laughing is due to the persistence of those who continueally go down there when its obvious doing so is certain death. One thing is certain, Gupi is not going down there until she gets a weapon that can damage those Heucuva, she has a score to settle with them and they will get what is coming to them, mark her words... One day...ONE DAY!

Despite all this I am having a blast this NCW :)
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 03:34:18 PM by Honoun »

BahamutZ3RO

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #62 on: December 25, 2012, 01:24:58 PM »
In all fairness I must be one of the few who doesn't constantly delve down into the Morninglord Crypt. Asta went down there a few times early in her career, Bupi only went only a few times more. Mupi went once, got accosted and accused for stealing by another player so never went down again. Kira Has been down maybe once or twice, and this New Character week Gupi has been down there twice I think, both times though she couldn't hit anything at all as all her weapons are useless. Did make me wonder though how the server expected lowbies to fair when the starter gear they get is all but useless in such situations. No amount of strategising was going the be all that effective when nobody could damage the critters there sufficiently enough anyway, most of us couldn't harm them at all and I think only one player could and he was the one who died, but then the Boss Monsters were in the corridors so we couldn't bottle neck them in a doorway or what have you. In the end I think we all just gave up. In any case considering the infrequency that my chars go down there seeing the current spawn was like... What the... And this is level one?

I get tells from other players occasionally asking me how the carnage is and they seem to think it funny, and to tell the truth I laugh as well, but my laughing is due to the persistence of those who continueally go down there when its obvious doing so is certain death. One thing is certain, Gupi is not going down there until she gets a weapon that can damage those Heucuva, she has a score to settle with them and they will get what is coming to them, mark her words... One day...ONE DAY!

Despite all this I am having a blast this NCW :)

It's to promote teamwork and cooperation. All that's needed, really, is a fighter type and someone who can cast magic weapon, mage armor and/or shield of faith. Suddenly impossible becomes challenging.
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Darkelf30420

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #63 on: December 25, 2012, 05:25:23 PM »
I made a healer, no armor, no real combat spells at the ready. I'm entirily built to be in RP. Hopping to start anew and see what this new idea can become. All i see now is people in the grind to get to a certain comfort level in coin, char lvl and gear.  I did that with Perry, turned him into a badass tank, but the lack luster of that wore off very fast. Soon i stopped playing him.  I grew very tired of the crypts as well. Annia9my new char0 has yet to enter that dark undead filled death trap.

My two cents: Just play your character, and learn that you are not as bad ass as you think you are, when that were-rat comes up out of no where and well.....

dutchy

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #64 on: December 25, 2012, 06:14:56 PM »
in general what i see allot do is temporary thinking.

meaning when ncw is over  they get a potm reality slap in the face when the higher lvls return.


who you calling stupid !!!     i'l have you know i can be your biggest problem.

*higher lvl*

SLAP

*ncw char*

put back in his place of the grand balance of things.
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Honoun

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #65 on: December 25, 2012, 08:46:13 PM »
SNIP

It's to promote teamwork and cooperation. All that's needed, really, is a fighter type and someone who can cast magic weapon, mage armor and/or shield of faith. Suddenly impossible becomes challenging.

Yes, quite a few of you say this that I have seen on this forum and I really do want you guys to have your challenge. I however do not want that kind of challenge, I do not find a challenge like that enjoyable I only find it frustrating. To me its more a headache than a challenge. The situation I described, admittedly loosely at that, was as far as I am concerned near on impossible to achieve and no amount of team work was going to defeat this so called challenge. let me set it straight for you.

There was maybe seven of us, at a guess I can assume most of us at the time if not all of us were level four. There was one player, the tank who had a +1 weapon I'm assuming, who stated that he could damage the undead down there. I think Mage Armour was cast on him, though I can't rightly recall, and the healers of which there were two I think, though my memory is a little fuzzy on that as well had, I assume, all the heals ready to go. The rest of us were acting support some of us with various missile weapons. We enter the crypt, and there are two Heucuva and a Skeleton priest loitering in the open area directly to the right, there is an alcove just up from there where they had spawned, I know this as on a previous occasion that's where they were crowded. Well the fighter tank engaged them, I actually don't know if they were a fighter class, but he was the only one with a weapon that could harm them. We lasted a little while, the healers keeping the tank player alive, alas the two Heucuva were too much, as we were fighting in the corridor we couldn't bottle neck them and they were tougher than we, not only that at the time the rest of us could not do any damage to them at all, so we might as well not be there. Well the healers spent all their heals on that fighter yet the two Heucuva were still alive, and they had also summoned two Skeleton Knights, you know the ones with great swords that pack quite a wallop.

So there we were, Two Heucuva, Two Skeleton Knights, and pretty sure the Skeleton Priest was still alive as well, the only player who could harm them was having their health whittled down at a rather alarming rate and the rest of us couldn't support him even though we wanted to. We were acting a team everyone of us doing our assigned part, yet on level one of a dungeon we were engaging not one, but two boss monsters. So the odds were this... Three Monsters, two of which can summon two more, for a total of a five all of which are able to harm us, some of them having devastating critical hits. You have those five versus the seven of us, of which only one can do any real harm to them, the rest of us might do minimal damage to the adds but cannot harm the two mains in any way. The odds were just stacked so much against us that there really was no hope of winning it.

The point is, that due to the fact that none but one of us could damage the Heucuva the rest of us might as well not be there so essentially that fighter was all alone taking on two boss monsters all by himself, he wasn't going to win despite being buffed. And this is a challenge?

Well in any case this is all a moot point now that the divining pool was added, if only it was there for the situation above we may have had a fighting chance. As it was though the fighter did die, so no surprise there.

It is interesting to note though that at times, dungeons are ramped up in difficulty to cater the uberness of some players while the rest of us who are mediocre at best, cause you know we spend most our time RP as apposed to grinding away in a dungeon for all that XP have to suffer when we get an itch to dungeon as well. I'm happy you guys are getting your challenge really I am, but I'm sad that some of those dungeons are just too much for such a mediocre player like myself.

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #66 on: December 26, 2012, 03:42:32 AM »
The strength of the spawns down there has actually only been reduced recently, but right now the challenge level is unusually high because no one is able to clear out the place. It's permanently in a state of high spawn.

Honoun

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #67 on: December 26, 2012, 04:45:58 AM »
Well with the divining pool now there maybe the lowbie characters can clear the place ;) After all my main critisicm was mainly that lowbei characters with standard equipment just can't damage anything down there if the spawn does get that high. Thus it just stays at a high spawn for ever and a day... Quite the turn around when you think about it after all those threads crying the place was farmed too much ;)

Major Tom

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #68 on: December 26, 2012, 06:44:25 AM »
Well, if the risk vs. reward factor of going outside of the church was sensible and balanced enough, it wouldn't be farmed, now would it? >_>

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Honoun

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #69 on: December 26, 2012, 08:07:41 AM »
Actually I think the overiding reason why the crypts are farmed a lot is due to one reason, healing Potions... The most common reason I get from other characters asking one of mine to go down with them is always to get skele knuckles, no matter what char I'm currently on either.

Alamut

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #70 on: December 26, 2012, 08:31:35 AM »
Well, since this thread is in regard the NCW thing, I sorry to break your comments to say that I hated it ! My toon lvl 6 got kicked out of the hookie place to somewhere else I never been to, and while trying to find someone else to RP, I got stuck into a deadly-trap well thing, filled with undeads, and - 1 hp. Yeah, it seems to be bugged he doesn't simply die or stabilize. And so far two days without a DM. I also would like to add this event blowed up my vacation (10 days, right?).

Ercvadasz

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #71 on: December 26, 2012, 10:23:18 AM »
Actually I think the overiding reason why the crypts are farmed a lot is due to one reason, healing Potions... The most common reason I get from other characters asking one of mine to go down with them is always to get skele knuckles, no matter what char I'm currently on either.

There are other places you can get the challenge which is even lower, and it will still give you loot and challenge, and knuckles:)
I have been mostly away from the temple because it is crowded, also i have found a number of ingame reasons to not dwell there.
I have been down to the crypts like twice, but not ever since and will not do so, after a few occurance down there and above in the temple.
I keep trying to promote other places, but all i get is usually ignored. I spend nights in wachter lands, in tigans, in the slum ml temple, in the ladies(sometimes alone even there!), in broken bell but i have not met anyone there so far. (Today is the first time there are others in tigan!)
most of the time the temple has like 30+ chars inside....and one after another a farming train leaves, during day folks go to the beetles.
My VERY low level ranger allready killed a deep forest wolf, a bandit fighter, a marksman and an archer...folks just need strategy a bit of thinking, and to go away to learn about things:)
Actually i wonder why nobody uses holy traps vs heacuvas and skellie knights:)

Another thing, you can start to do crafts, since the good old belsescu pays you, ofc delivery is much more rewarding since it gives you XP and huge gold amount, but during crafting you could easily have a good rp conversation. (Allthough with woodworkers and smiths it is hard, since they cannot craft en masse things)

During NCW i have been mostly crafting and rping, and very minorly dungeoneering , allthough i have killed a few things that attacked me out in the wilderness.
Not everyone can go out, but with a semi decent spotter in the group you can easily notice most of the challenges and threats and find alternative routes to get whereyou wanted. (beside the Lodge:P but if all goes well i will deal with the alphas soon enough:)))

Also i do not know how many events were made or set, but i have this feeling that most of the DM run events or encounters all happened in the Temple or in the outskirts.
I think that this is sadly a quite contradictory approach, since if the temple gets most attention, most and regular folks will not leave the place, since they fear they will miss out something. Also many players have the mindsetting to get involved in EVERYTHING. In which case i think a character should get himself involved in things that are okay with his goals, allignement and so on. Know when a thing does not concern you, you will get more out of leaving something alone in some cases. (Also consider this when you are WAY over the level required to finish the DM set task, it may have not been meant for you, and you may likely just destroy what the DM has thought out, and ruin it for the other characters who had hoped to participate.)

Oh one thing, or suggestion:
Beside the divineing pool, it would have made much sense to give the ML faction members (Ezrites and such) a number of holy water flasks they could have used to hand out and reward folks, since it would have worked well as vanish vs undead. Also could have helped to defeat undead, and to use bows and such. Or Dm-s could use Liz to provide these:)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 03:08:17 PM by Ercvadasz »
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Honoun

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #72 on: December 27, 2012, 03:42:39 AM »
My VERY low level ranger allready killed a deep forest wolf

Oh ho, now if I remember correctly you had help with that, lets put credit where credit is due :P

Ercvadasz

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #73 on: December 27, 2012, 05:06:01 AM »
My VERY low level ranger allready killed a deep forest wolf

Oh ho, now if I remember correctly you had help with that, lets put credit where credit is due :P

Indeed, i had:P But i wanted to emphasise on that it is doable:)
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Zhernebog

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Re: NCW Characters
« Reply #74 on: December 27, 2012, 06:41:36 AM »
Well, if the risk vs. reward factor of going outside of the church was sensible and balanced enough, it wouldn't be farmed, now would it? >_>
Anyone still in the church after lvl 7 is a time-wasting silly goose. There are tons, TONS, of dungeons much more suited to a balanced party.