NCW Characters

[Feronius]

I don't mind difficult, I was refering to spawns along the lines of Alpha Deep Forest wolves next the Fishing Lodge.
Or Aberrant Humanoid Wererats on the streets, that not even the garda can damage.

It just doesn't seem to serve a real purpose to have such ridicilously high level monsters in areas most commonly used by low levels.
(At least I do not usually see a high level party traveling to the Fishing Lodge to combat wolves or gain the 100 gold delivery reward.)

[BahamutZ3RO]

It just doesn't seem to serve a real purpose

The purpose is to put real fear into characters. Make them terrified to go out at night.

As for places like the crypts and stuff... like others have said, it's a matter of organization and positioning. Tanks have to set up choke points in doorways, use their sidestep keys to keep from getting flanked, make sure they keep the attention of the enemies. Flankers need to learn to flank and, more importantly, how to break away from combat without triggering a pile of AOOs. Everyone else needs to learn to maintain a safe distance from the melee while they're plugging away at targets. And casters need to learn to buff the people who can make a difference, instead of trying to sword-and-board for themselves or pop mage armor on themselves even though they're in the back with a crossbow.

[HellsPanda]

The key secret to managing the lowlevel spawns is Shield of Faith, Mage armour on the front liners. And MW on the Frontliners/archers

[airengale]

The key secret to managing the lowlevel spawns is Shield of Faith, Mage armour on the front liners. And MW on the Frontliners/archers

Magic weapon on a tank who uses expertise or improved expertise is quite useless. Give Magic Weapon to the melee flankers and archers.

[Major Tom]

The stats really don't make any sense, to be honest. I've cross-referenced the normal stats for a regular wolf on the server, versus one listed in the manuals, and the server-side one is akin to a war-bred battle wolf wearing a full plate, it's almost like, rather than a particularly vicious asshole of a wolf that was born in the wild. Similarly, the stats for worgs and dire wolves are all the sort of stats you'd see for a boss monster. I can kill a friggin' dire wolf with two level 2-3 characters in Baldur's Gate, even on a roleplay build, provided I play it smart and strategize, without spells, and using standard issue, non-enchanted gear. On here? I need to be buffed out the anus by a level 10-11 cleric, whilst being of the same level myself, with magic gear, to even match up to a dire wolf. Particularly when 10-15 more humanoid wolves, dire wolves and Deep Forest wolves magically appear out of nowhere, in an almost perfect circle alignment around our group. We were starting to wonder if a DM was fucking with us purposefully, it seemed that intentionally rigged.

This does not create terror or fear, it creates annoyance. I'm not afraid of the night - I'm spiteful towards it, because it cheats. I don't respect the night, because I don't stand a chance against it due to it being broken. I'd be more afraid if things were actually stacked against me in a sense that says 'you're the idiot that took his chances, pay the price'. Creatures with stats equitable to those of minor bosses aren't me 'taking a chance', it's a defaulting middle finger. But hey, when the server is saturated with so many magical wares and goods and powerbuilds that creating fear with genuine, naturally balanced statistics becomes more than a little difficult, if sometimes just pointless, I can see how the building team would find it necessary to jack up the stats to ungodly levels just to counteract this.

It's the same reason I don't feel that jacking up the difficulty of resurrection with diamonds did anything to enhance a sense of dread or fear - because all this is doing is making me all the more annoyed at the fact that the server cheated, got me killed, and now I need to inconvenience someone to part with their gold and diamonds just in order  to make up for this fact, on top of my prior annoyance at 'the computer's a rotten, cheating bastard'. I'm not inclined to fear death when that death was unfairly achieved - just as I wouldn't respect, or find enjoyment, in being killed by a dude who stands on a respawn point in an FPS game, camping people with a knife; contrary to finding enjoyment in a 'damn, you got me - was a good, clean effort, though!' situation instead.

[HellsPanda]

You can't compare Baldur's Gate and NWN. It uses completely different versions of the DnD system. Its about as far from each other as you can with the DnD system

[Major Tom]

I can still use the actual Monster Manual to compare stats, and guess what? My comparison still holds up. Honestly, this whole dismissal of 'oh, they used Editions' thing is a weak argument. A wolf is a wolf, regardless of Edition. Or did wolves suddenly change from being 'regular forest animal' to 'lesser demigod' between Editions?

[HellsPanda]

no, but Dire WOlves and Worgs are supposed to super wolves

[Time_Stomped]

The 1-2 huevaca spawns as a normal thing for what's spawning in the crypts is pretty bad stuff and I really wish people would stop dragging my characters to take them on while my character has no knowledge of them at all when I get blasted with hold person.  Please do something else.  Please.

[Misted_Horror]

The key secret to managing the lowlevel spawns is Shield of Faith, Mage armour on the front liners. And MW on the Frontliners/archers

Magic weapon on a tank who uses expertise or improved expertise is quite useless. Give Magic Weapon to the melee flankers and archers.

Yes and no. Most melee 'flankers' just expend more healing resources and waste time at low levels. Atleast on the off-chance they hit, they can deal damage. Otherwise, anyone who isn't tanking, use a bow, or even a sling. Also, for all the hold person things, PoA is a great, great spell. Although you don't need it if you know how to make sure the tank is the only one there when the spellcasting AI selects its target. That way the tank still has IE (which doesn't disappear on flat-footed) and that's one slot that can be used for another MW, or a  heal.

[Zhernebog]

It is so funny watching veterans playing new characters. Its like watching an adult try to ride a childrens tricycle.
There is no fear of anything and they die in packs  
Im starting to see why high levels hang on with a death grip to their pcs, it's because theyre so rusty at low levels.

[Major Tom]

no, but Dire WOlves and Worgs are supposed to super wolves

'Cept here's a fun fact. In the actual Ravenloft campain books, when it regards wolves, dire wolves and worgs, guess what it says? Consult the standard Monster Manual for their stats. Ravenloft is originally a 2nd Ed. setting, same as Baldur's Gate, as you argued - I can kill a dire wolf in Baldur's Gate at low level, with just two characters, with clever strategy. I consulted the 3rd and 3.5 Ed. manuals on the stats for those beasts as well - guess what else? Server-side, they're still overpowered.

Super Wolf and 'Wolf Demigod Boss Encounter' aren't the same thing.

[HellsPanda]

Well then lets look at it this way, to make any encounter challenging, and inspire fear. You cant build encounters like you could in PnP. So whats supposed to be dangerous, has to be what seems in normal DnD 2nd or 3rd, or PF to be crazy

[Misted_Horror]

I too was surprised.They just heal from Lizuca, then run straight back down. Or they go down to get 3 people, in the process, another 3 die and the same process is repeated, infinitely.

Also, Tom. If you decide to play a "role-play build" and get the crap kicked out of you, it's your fault. You can be a viable build without min-maxing or selecting specific feats. Also note, if PoTM was akin to a 3rd Ed MM, pretty much every NPC/Monster would have the crap kicked out of it. It's also meant to be low magic, and not 239080924 low levels just barraging the hell out of a crypt for some phat XP. So yes, it differs from the normal implementation just for NCW.

[Elfric]

It is so funny watching veterans playing new characters. Its like watching an adult try to ride a childrens tricycle.
There is no fear of anything and they die in packs  
Im starting to see why high levels hang on with a death grip to their pcs, it's because theyre so rusty at low levels.

That's really what all the complaining seems to be... I just laugh at it.

[dutchy]

did we not have this discussion last ncw?

[HellsPanda]

Yes, and the one before, we will also have it next time, and the time after that

[Major Tom]

Well then lets look at it this way, to make any encounter challenging, and inspire fear. You cant build encounters like you could in PnP. So whats supposed to be dangerous, has to be what seems in normal DnD 2nd or 3rd, or PF to be crazy

Also, Tom. If you decide to play a "role-play build" and get the crap kicked out of you, it's your fault. You can be a viable build without min-maxing or selecting specific feats. Also note, if PoTM was akin to a 3rd Ed MM, pretty much every NPC/Monster would have the crap kicked out of it. It's also meant to be low magic, and not 239080924 low levels just barraging the hell out of a crypt for some phat XP. So yes, it differs from the normal implementation just for NCW.

Gonna address both these points: First of all, glad to see that you agree, HellsPanda, then, that the monsters are currently set to 'dirty cheating bastard' just in order to create higher difficulty opponents - however, as I stated before, this fails to inspire fear. Nobody fears a cheating computer, they grow annoyed with it, and seek to circumvent it. There's a simple method to fix this entire situation, but it will never be taken into consideration, unfortunately, and that would be to lower the level cap, and to subsequently decrease the rate of which how players might level up in order to prevent them from capping out. If the level cap was a mere level 10-15, and players would level according to that, then every monster of a normal level wouldn't be getting the everloving crap kicked out of it.

This is a problem I've started noticing for a while now in terms of NWN and how people treat the level mechanics.. nobody seems to stop and understand that, as far as being level 10 goes, you're already a damned, high-tier adventuring badass. Level 20 means you're bordering on god-like power. Elminster is level 21-22. Drizzt Do'Urden is level 15-16. Of course dire wolves are going to be pissants in the face of a level 10 - you usually reach level 10 either from rolling the character straight out the box as such, or from having played that character across multiple campaigns, possibly for years.

So rather than accept that it's 'my fault' for making a roleplay build on a roleplay server, I find myself instead questioning the constant justifications for action-server attitudes, and the complete disregard for what it means to be level 10 in the first place in terms of DnD statistics. Personally, I dunno, I blame games like World of Warcraft, where the fixation on 'big numbers' is in place to give the players some sort of illusion of their greatness in combat, and how such sentiments seem to tint player perceptions on a lot of servers, where apparently the idea of being level 5 and that being considered 'mid-level' seems to somehow invoke a knee-jerk reaction of detest.

[dutchy]

Yes, and the one before, we will also have it next time, and the time after that

heres a tip then copy paste what you wrote now   save it in a file and repost it next time saves thinking time.

[shadymerchant]

Well then lets look at it this way, to make any encounter challenging, and inspire fear. You cant build encounters like you could in PnP. So whats supposed to be dangerous, has to be what seems in normal DnD 2nd or 3rd, or PF to be crazy

Also, Tom. If you decide to play a "role-play build" and get the crap kicked out of you, it's your fault. You can be a viable build without min-maxing or selecting specific feats. Also note, if PoTM was akin to a 3rd Ed MM, pretty much every NPC/Monster would have the crap kicked out of it. It's also meant to be low magic, and not 239080924 low levels just barraging the hell out of a crypt for some phat XP. So yes, it differs from the normal implementation just for NCW.

Gonna address both these points: First of all, glad to see that you agree, HellsPanda, then, that the monsters are currently set to 'dirty cheating bastard' just in order to create higher difficulty opponents - however, as I stated before, this fails to inspire fear. Nobody fears a cheating computer, they grow annoyed with it, and seek to circumvent it. There's a simple method to fix this entire situation, but it will never be taken into consideration, unfortunately, and that would be to lower the level cap, and to subsequently decrease the rate of which how players might level up in order to prevent them from capping out. If the level cap was a mere level 10-15, and players would level according to that, then every monster of a normal level wouldn't be getting the everloving crap kicked out of it.

This is a problem I've started noticing for a while now in terms of NWN and how people treat the level mechanics.. nobody seems to stop and understand that, as far as being level 10 goes, you're already a damned, high-tier adventuring badass. Level 20 means you're bordering on god-like power. Elminster is level 21-22. Drizzt Do'Urden is level 15-16. Of course dire wolves are going to be pissants in the face of a level 10 - you usually reach level 10 either from rolling the character straight out the box as such, or from having played that character across multiple campaigns, possibly for years.

So rather than accept that it's 'my fault' for making a roleplay build on a roleplay server, I find myself instead questioning the constant justifications for action-server attitudes, and the complete disregard for what it means to be level 10 in the first place in terms of DnD statistics. Personally, I dunno, I blame games like World of Warcraft, where the fixation on 'big numbers' is in place to give the players some sort of illusion of their greatness in combat, and how such sentiments seem to tint player perceptions on a lot of servers, where apparently the idea of being level 5 and that being considered 'mid-level' seems to somehow invoke a knee-jerk reaction of detest.

Familiarity with the game and its mechanics goes a long way. The current highspawns on the server are difficult at 2 - 5 where a crit or two can change the outcome of a fight, but it can be done. Getting it done is challenging and fun. If I knew who your character was I'd make an attempt in game to incorporate you into one of the groups that tackles the difficult stuff with proper preparation.

[Misted_Horror]

So rather than accept that it's 'my fault' for making a roleplay build on a roleplay server, I find myself instead questioning the constant justifications for action-server attitudes, and the complete disregard for what it means to be level 10 in the first place in terms of DnD statistics. Personally, I dunno, I blame games like World of Warcraft, where the fixation on 'big numbers' is in place to give the players some sort of illusion of their greatness in combat, and how such sentiments seem to tint player perceptions on a lot of servers, where apparently the idea of being level 5 and that being considered 'mid-level' seems to somehow invoke a knee-jerk reaction of detest.

Apart from the fact that being a level ten on this server means you are still limited in the dungeons you can do. I get it, RP and such. I agree with it also, but it is a computer game and I can only speak for myself here.. but I like levelling up and -character progression- whether it be RP-wise or mechanical. It's a common viewpoint of those that -can't- build to try and lower everything down, which then makes the entire server a cakewalk for anyone that knows the game mechanics.

[herkles]

also there is a shop in vallaki that sells every weapon in copper, cold iron, and -silver- varieties.

[Feronius]

The purpose is to put real fear into characters. Make them terrified to go out at night.

I know that's the intent, but you could achieve that same effect with monsters that aren't in a -ridicilously- much higher level range as well.
Hence why I said "it serves no real purpose", refering to it serving no real purpose to have them be -that- high of a level.
(As opposed to dangerous, but doable with a prepared group of the expected level range of said area.)



And I don't know why, for the love of-... , this "divining pool" was added to the Morninglord Church.
We might as well rename it the Morninglord Crypts week. Everyone was already swarming that one spot as it was.
Why not tone down the spawns, instead of making the Morninglord church the single one place to be, even more than it was.

[FullMetalLink]

The purpose is to put real fear into characters. Make them terrified to go out at night.

I know that's the intent, but you could achieve that same effect with monsters that aren't in a -ridicilously- much higher level range as well.
Hence why I said "it serves no real purpose", refering to it serving no real purpose to have them be -that- high of a level.
(As opposed to dangerous, but doable with a prepared group of the expected level range of said area.)



And I don't know why, for the love of-... , this "divining pool" was added to the Morninglord Church.
We might as well rename it the Morninglord Crypts week. Everyone was already swarming that one spot as it was.
Why not tone down the spawns, instead of making the Morninglord church the single one place to be, even more than it was.

It's the hotspot because it's so close to a healing and a ressurecting Morninglordian. If you wipe in the fire beetles, carrying bodies even that short a distance could mean wolves or other dangers, it is popular because it is very seperate, instead of treading through danger to get to a dangerous location, you get safety into immediate danger.

I can tell you that I do not always go into the crypts in fact I have done rats, firebeetles, and even the Sullen woods where I had probably the most epic battle I've seen in a long time. It is about experience points, and going in there to gain precious levels, but you cannot tell me you hate it when you are rewarded for your efforts with exp. The important thing is that RP is created and it is in almost all cases done well, in fact the only reason we recieve so many complaints is that our standards are set so high. Don't lower the bar for RP, keep growing.

 NCW is about teaching others to grow and learn, not pointing fingers, burning bodies and other nasty behavior I've seen happen. Mistakes will be made by new players. Help them to learn instead of telling them how wrong they are and telling them they are "bad". No player is truly "bad", they only either lack direction or education or are completely inexperienced (Such as Myself!).

Fear the night, but do not make it completely unapproachable, I agree these Alpha Deep Forest wolves are very discouraging to explore any new location, they attack you even when you travel by day! They seem to be unavoidable, I love challenging dungeons and having to strategize and work together, but when Skeleton Knights Critical hit every 1-3 attacks, it's discouraging that all the time placed into tactics is ruined by some seemingly endless "lucky" shots, which are happening all to often creating large party wipes.

The person above is stating that he wishes to do more dungeons, problem is; We can't get much farther, the wolves are simply too strong, even for a well tactically balanced party.

[Feronius]

I do generally agree with what you're saying, especially the "educate new players" part.

But I think that's not what happens here. People -are- actually lowering the bar for RP, in exchange for more dungeoning options. Now til some extend that's reasonable, but literally over half the server is near constantly found in the same building. I had hoped the older players and DMs would encourage the use of other areas more, especially during a time as NCW where there's so many chances to meet new characters and weave new storylines outside of dungeons as well.



Don't get me wrong though, I am enjoying NCW regardless. Even if I have yet to do any dungeons and don't RP with such large groups.
I just think it's a shame that literally half the server constantly flocks the one same tiny area. And the server actually encourages that heavily.