You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: Delete character option  (Read 6054 times)

Feronius

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2082
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2012, 08:18:18 AM »
Soren does not personally retrieve files from the vault and delete them at the request of the owner, which is why I'm in favor of a tool to do it in game. I think the password feature on character login is enough of a security measure to prevent fraudulent deletes ...

Do keep in mind that (I think) that system only asks for your password -after- you enter the world, whereas the delete function is located in the character selection screen.
But Honoun's suggestion actually sounds like something that wouldn't be abused or lead to grief, but would be very appreciated by the community. Not sure how hard it is to accomplish though.

Honoun

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 865
  • Happy Rainy Days
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2012, 09:54:26 AM »
I just checked my character vault that is in my NWN directory, there is only six characters in there, (I delete all the ones that come with the game when you install it). Anyway with those six that are currently in there the folder size is 361KB... Now I have no idea how many characters may be in the server vault in total but I'm assuming the data size is nothing to sneeze at. Now with each NCW or new player who logs on the server that size is going to increase. It may take years and one way to alleviate excessive data size is to get bigger data storage true. However, to save money on having to buy bigger data storage just for all our characters it seems to me the cheaper and easier option is just let us delete the characters we are not using to allow space for ones that are getting played with.

True, data storage devices these days is cheap, but letting us delete characters is free ;)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 09:59:22 AM by Honoun »

Jalthex

  • Captain Hiatus
  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
  • You make me touch your hands for stupid reasons!
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2012, 11:00:05 AM »
Quote
Er Whut? That sounds right if the community was made up of 11 year old girls, and 8 year old boys.

I don't think this is appropriate to imply, we have mature players but end users in general seem to like asking for things/features they don't need (I'll repeat that I work for a software development company and this is as common place as it is frustrating) - it's not childish but a symptom of the optionality in modern consumer culture, anyway, you're asking for a superfluous feature to come about from Volunteer effort.

I don't speak for the staff, but I'd like to help out and steer everyone toward accepting their previously declared intentions regarding any character deletion features.

I think that we do have a mature player base, one mature enough not to go through the motions of deleting characters in their own vaults, then change there minds the next day, and then bother the staff to retrieve deleted characters. You might think its a superfluous feature, I don't, but then again even if I did I would still ask for it, because im playing a superfluous computer game, engaging in superfluous activity's. I could be down at the dojo, or running, or practicing Japanese, but no I'm a level 3 Wizard about too kill some minks for imaginery gold. My free time is spent doing superfluous things. Soo yeah I'm cool with superfluous requests. Besides their is an argument for removing unused data and saving on disk space which has already been pointed out.

It's important to remember that not everyone who logs into PotM is a "member of the community." Allowing a delete function can give people a way around IC or OOC consequences, not just the annoyance of deleting a character and then whining that they want it back. It's not that the requests are superfluous, it's that the feature is unneeded and has more potential for bad than for good.

EDIT: Totally didn't mean conflicts, meant consequences. Changed it now. ugh, iz urleh.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 11:03:29 AM by Jalthex »

dark_majico

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1551
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2012, 12:57:16 PM »
Quote
Er Whut? That sounds right if the community was made up of 11 year old girls, and 8 year old boys.

I don't think this is appropriate to imply, we have mature players but end users in general seem to like asking for things/features they don't need (I'll repeat that I work for a software development company and this is as common place as it is frustrating) - it's not childish but a symptom of the optionality in modern consumer culture, anyway, you're asking for a superfluous feature to come about from Volunteer effort.

I don't speak for the staff, but I'd like to help out and steer everyone toward accepting their previously declared intentions regarding any character deletion features.

I think that we do have a mature player base, one mature enough not to go through the motions of deleting characters in their own vaults, then change there minds the next day, and then bother the staff to retrieve deleted characters. You might think its a superfluous feature, I don't, but then again even if I did I would still ask for it, because im playing a superfluous computer game, engaging in superfluous activity's. I could be down at the dojo, or running, or practicing Japanese, but no I'm a level 3 Wizard about too kill some minks for imaginery gold. My free time is spent doing superfluous things. Soo yeah I'm cool with superfluous requests. Besides their is an argument for removing unused data and saving on disk space which has already been pointed out.

It's important to remember that not everyone who logs into PotM is a "member of the community." Allowing a delete function can give people a way around IC or OOC consequences, not just the annoyance of deleting a character and then whining that they want it back. It's not that the requests are superfluous, it's that the feature is unneeded and has more potential for bad than for good.

EDIT: Totally didn't mean conflicts, meant consequences. Changed it now. ugh, iz urleh.

What is this potential?
Active:
Constance Hollows

BahamutZ3RO

  • Master of Many Alts
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2615
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2012, 12:59:44 PM »
What is this potential?

Off the top of my head; people deleting other people's characters? I know I've managed to get access to at least one character that isn't my own, through some sort of weird direct connect sorcery.
: )




Jalthex

  • Captain Hiatus
  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
  • You make me touch your hands for stupid reasons!
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2012, 01:13:40 PM »
What is this potential?

Off the top of my head; people deleting other people's characters? I know I've managed to get access to at least one character that isn't my own, through some sort of weird direct connect sorcery.

-Or perhaps deleting a character and remaking them after they've been killed by another player as IC consequence then, when someone approaches the new character they respond "No, that was my old John Doe, this is a new character!"
-Also, you could delete and remake a character that you'd leveled and then complain to DMs about losing your levels, them perhaps being none-the-wiser of the fact that you'd deleted the old incarnation.
-You could delete a character after succeeding at something due to a high ability score and then remake them with new stats so that they can succeed at something else and continue on through this process indefinitely till you are caught...
-Etc, etc.

I am by no means saying that this implementation is completely a bad idea, I'm simply supporting what Ovidiu has stated; the potential for abuse is perhaps not worth the implementation of a mostly luxury feature.

Feronius

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2082
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2012, 01:24:01 PM »
If it truly saves that much space on the server, I don't think it's a luxury feature. There must be gigabytes (or more?) of stored characters build up over those ten years?

And if we're taking such extreme abuse into account, we might as well not bother keeping the server open at all. Or hire proffesional 24/7 security to prevent hackers.
If there's barrels with 50 charges of spawnable carnivorous apes to exploit and screw people over with... seriously, who's going to bother with a dull spiteful delete?

dark_majico

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1551
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2012, 01:46:49 PM »
What is this potential?

Off the top of my head; people deleting other people's characters? I know I've managed to get access to at least one character that isn't my own, through some sort of weird direct connect sorcery.

-Or perhaps deleting a character and remaking them after they've been killed by another player as IC consequence then, when someone approaches the new character they respond "No, that was my old John Doe, this is a new character!"
-Also, you could delete and remake a character that you'd leveled and then complain to DMs about losing your levels, them perhaps being none-the-wiser of the fact that you'd deleted the old incarnation.
-You could delete a character after succeeding at something due to a high ability score and then remake them with new stats so that they can succeed at something else and continue on through this process indefinitely till you are caught...
-Etc, etc.

I am by no means saying that this implementation is completely a bad idea, I'm simply supporting what Ovidiu has stated; the potential for abuse is perhaps not worth the implementation of a mostly luxury feature.


Yeah but anyone can just go ahead and create a new character anyway, or create a new log in and start with a clean vault to get around consequences. There are logs that record everything you do, so anyone trying to abuse this sort of feature is accountable and is just going to get a hefty suspension or an outright ban, its not a case of once its deleted all trails go cold. Records of character deletes can be logged on a separate file and kept for records. Numerous deletes in quick succession can also be highlighted for quick reference sake. Deleted files can be sent to a new location, or copied and kept for a pre determined amount of time. Say one week? So if there are any requests they can be investigated, but it would be more than likely that the best policy would be only in extreme cases of obvious grieving that a character will be restored. Safe guards can be put in game, and we already have a password system to prevent fraudulent log ins and deletes. Frankly you have other servers running this feature, and other MMOS use it. It just sounds like knee jerk hysteria when people say how much potential for abuse their is, frankly there are way more other things you can abuse in game and I wasn't aware we had that sort of a problem.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 01:48:56 PM by dark_majico »
Active:
Constance Hollows

Feronius

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2082
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2012, 01:55:55 PM »
Storing the records of characters deleted for only a week might be a tad short, I'd make it several weeks to be safe. Søren might not always be available quickly.
But other than that, I completely agree with your statement above. The system can be made in such a way without risking abuse later, quite easily.

I think the pros easily outweigh the virtually non-existant cons, the only question here is whether Søren or whoever has the desire and the time to create put such a feature in place.
(Tbh, that Ravenloft Downloader side-project seems a lot more of a priority at the moment. Although it would be good to see this feature somewhere along the line, definitely.)

Sasuga

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2021, 08:52:50 PM »
I certainly would like the ability to delete a character that's lingering in my vault for this server. It's got a similar name to another character, and the same image, and it's annoying to me.

It was a re-roll to fix a mistake, and now it sits there reminding me of the mistake, and threatening or taunting me to accidentally log in with it, instead of the 'proper' character.

I wish that I could simply send a DM request for it, or something. :-/

Iluvatar / Madness

  • Community Council
  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 3336
  • The Madness
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2021, 09:17:55 PM »
We unfortunately do not delete character upon request and have no plan to implement a character deletion feature either at the moment, the easiest solution would be to use an other player account.
Iluvatar
Iluvatar-2
Iluvatar NCE
Madness

ZachSmack

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2022, 02:20:34 AM »
What is this potential?

Off the top of my head; people deleting other people's characters? I know I've managed to get access to at least one character that isn't my own, through some sort of weird direct connect sorcery.

-Or perhaps deleting a character and remaking them after they've been killed by another player as IC consequence then, when someone approaches the new character they respond "No, that was my old John Doe, this is a new character!"
-Also, you could delete and remake a character that you'd leveled and then complain to DMs about losing your levels, them perhaps being none-the-wiser of the fact that you'd deleted the old incarnation.
-You could delete a character after succeeding at something due to a high ability score and then remake them with new stats so that they can succeed at something else and continue on through this process indefinitely till you are caught...
-Etc, etc.

I am by no means saying that this implementation is completely a bad idea, I'm simply supporting what Ovidiu has stated; the potential for abuse is perhaps not worth the implementation of a mostly luxury feature.


Yeah but anyone can just go ahead and create a new character anyway, or create a new log in and start with a clean vault to get around consequences. There are logs that record everything you do, so anyone trying to abuse this sort of feature is accountable and is just going to get a hefty suspension or an outright ban, its not a case of once its deleted all trails go cold. Records of character deletes can be logged on a separate file and kept for records. Numerous deletes in quick succession can also be highlighted for quick reference sake. Deleted files can be sent to a new location, or copied and kept for a pre determined amount of time. Say one week? So if there are any requests they can be investigated, but it would be more than likely that the best policy would be only in extreme cases of obvious grieving that a character will be restored. Safe guards can be put in game, and we already have a password system to prevent fraudulent log ins and deletes. Frankly you have other servers running this feature, and other MMOS use it. It just sounds like knee jerk hysteria when people say how much potential for abuse their is, frankly there are way more other things you can abuse in game and I wasn't aware we had that sort of a problem.

Sorry to bring a topic back from the dead but I'm a returning player with quite a few reroll characters trying to figure out how the new classes worked (Favored soul's Weapon Focus I'm looking at you) and being able to delete characters would certainly make everyone's vaults a lot more manageable. I'm sure I'm one of the smaller cases who only has 20-30 in there but it's still a pain.

Maybe a system that lets you log into the character, use the ingame command, and an  @delete command could work? (Similar to how @setpass works)
You'd have to log into your NWN multiplayer account,  select your character, load into the server, then use your ingame pass you set for that specific character in order to delete it. Of course you'd want some sort of 24hr or 48hr confirmation window to give people time to reconsider or to prevent someone somehow accidentally doing this without really meaning to, but the QOL improvement sounds impactful for many players so if security is the main concern this strikes me as the most secure way to do it. Is something like this possible?
-ZachSmack

Maffa

  • Church of Ezra
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2022, 02:26:30 AM »
I'd be happy if I could delete the zzzRemake alone...
Character List:

Marph - Closured
Marius Rucescu - Active

MAB77

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 4008
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2022, 09:26:53 AM »
Our stance on this matter hasn't and will not change.

- The amount of people with access to the character vault is extremely limited for security reasons.
- Those with access to it do not have the time to manage character deletion requests.
- Tools so that players may delete their own characters have proven problematic in the past, both due to security concerns as well as server performance issues.
- The system however has no restiction on the amount of vaults one player may have.
- The amount of player vaults and their respective size have no impact on server ressources or performances.

The current system allows a player to have any number of vaults, and any number of characters they want, without risk of seeing any of them deleted by mistake (or maliciously by third parties). This is the safest approach and least risk prone option.
Best Regards!
MAB

Dev. Relationist for the Dark Powers.
1 Castle Road, Castle Ravenloft, Village of Barovia.

Anarcoplayba

  • Red Academy
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1056
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2022, 11:49:28 AM »
Our stance on this matter hasn't and will not change.

- The amount of people with access to the character vault is extremely limited for security reasons.
- Those with access to it do not have the time to manage character deletion requests.
- Tools so that players may delete their own characters have proven problematic in the past, both due to security concerns as well as server performance issues.
- The system however has no restiction on the amount of vaults one player may have.
- The amount of player vaults and their respective size have no impact on server ressources or performances.

The current system allows a player to have any number of vaults, and any number of characters they want, without risk of seeing any of them deleted by mistake (or maliciously by third parties). This is the safest approach and least risk prone option.

Not that this is a matter truly worth the time of the CC (I feel dumb stating the obvious).

But IF we did a copy (via @remake) of the PC from one vault into other vault? Like that we'd be able to move the good pcs from one vault to another, leave the bad PC's in the old and clumped vault and have a clean vault.

I am not THAT interested in that (not that many PC's) but since people is still asking for that, that would circumvent all the problem and security issues.
Noignar Huillen: Ilmater Cleric.
Hedien Gine: Arrow and Bow Artist.
Dolin Schneim: Dwarven Soldier

King_Abear

  • Vallaki Guards
  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 259
  • You are not a human being.
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2022, 07:54:24 PM »
Deleting someone's character would be mad easy. Leave it as it is.
Current: Blair Florescu
Occasionally: Blaine Hendrix
Shelved: Ulrich Brandt, Luka Petrovic

Jitters

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2022, 12:11:22 AM »
Give players an option to self delete their character so their vault doesn't get cluttered with all the characters they don't play anymore or whose story has ended. It could either be by using a console command or somewhere in the fugue. Also saves server storage space as well because it doesn't have to store unused characters.

Very easy to create new account name and play that once your old one gets cluttered.

Siobhan

  • The Underworld
  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
  • Till human voices wake us, and we drown.
Re: Delete character option
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2022, 12:39:24 AM »
It would be cool to have the ability to hide characters from your vault list.

The character still exists in the data, of course. It just wouldn't be shown in the default list when you log into the server. That way, players who want to keep their player name don't have to scroll through pages of characters & remakes to select their main each time they log in.