Author Topic: Making campfires inside caves?  (Read 2167 times)

Jeebs

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Making campfires inside caves?
« on: November 26, 2012, 05:48:52 AM »
  So, I noticed that you can't build a campfire inside a cave. The reason I bring this up is because I had a bit of RP going during one of Barovia's particularly harsh winters and the PCs I was interacting with and I had decided that spending the night inside a cave would be smarter than spending it outside in the snow, at the mercy of the wind and cold. Only when we got in there, we realized that we couldn't actually build a fire despite having RPed bringing wood along with us.

  I assume that the primary reason for this is that you can't differentiate between a cave and, say, the Lady's Rest? The second reason could be argued that there isn't any firewood inside a cave. So, to address both those points: could we not set certain areas within caves (relatively close to the entrance, I'd imagine) where you can build a campfire if you are carrying wood? I don't imagine it would be too complicated to set up. This way, if you're stuck spending the night outside during a storm you could just try to find a cave and brave the potential dangers within to be a bit warmer.

Feronius

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2012, 08:32:43 AM »
I think the fact the smoke can build up really quickly underground and suffocate you, unless there's cracks in the ceiling or a cavern entrance nearby, is a good reason as well.
After all, like in your example you could simply bring the firewood yourself. This still doesn't fly for small open caves, only for tunnels and deeper dwellings.

You probably gave the reason yourself already. The server likely seperates the areas in which you can build a fire by either indoor or outdoor areas.
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Honoun

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2012, 09:16:12 AM »
Having played around with scripting a little bit I think I can make an educated guess on this matter. The script run to play the whole building of the campfire just checks whether the area where the script was implimented is interior or an exterior location. It is set to return (IE do nothing) if the script detects it is being run in an interior location. This of course is an easy way to stop players from building campfires in wierd locations like a Hotel room and such. However as it is only checking for the location type it dissallows a campfire to be built in cave.

Now I don't know scripting well enough to offer a solution, but I could guess that the use of triggers in certain locations could utilise another check however this in itself would create a lot of work for the devs as they would have to search and place a trigger in every appropriate location. Quite the feet when you consider how many areas they would have to check in the first place. Mind you if they did go thios route I would mightlily impressed ;)

tzaeru

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2012, 09:37:21 AM »
There's GetIsAreaNatural and GetTilesetResRef. The former would be very easy to implement if areas have been properly set to Artificial or Natural, whilst with the latter could determine the specific tilesets that disallow campfire placing.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 10:05:32 AM by tzaeru »
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Ovidiu_Lacusta

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2012, 11:42:32 AM »
I think someone posted on here one time that if you build a fire in a cave, it traps gases that could cause a subterrainean explosion!

Daboomer

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2012, 01:01:00 PM »
That's why you bring an halfling alon to see if it has problem breathing, that means bad gasses. If it dies run. Same principal as the canarie birds.

ThePwush

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2012, 03:10:40 PM »
[Pictures someone walking into a dark, subterranean cave carrying a bird cage with a crammed halfling inside]

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Jeebs

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2012, 04:37:31 PM »
Yeah, part of the reason I had said that you should only be able to make a fire somewhere relatively close to the entrance was to factor in for the smoke building up. I was also thinking of just a trigger you could set up that tells the campfire system you can build one here and then another further in to return it to normal.  Scripting's not really my thing and there might be a simpler/easier way to do it, so I figured I'd leave that to someone who knows the system better.

Sewerfish

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2012, 07:00:59 PM »
I believe there are some fires in caves aren't there? Pots of stew and fires that give the caves inhabited feeling when humans or humanoids are the spawns. Cauldrons of fire, torches. The Drain has a pot of 'stew'. I think the starter cave creatures have a fire going too.

The point is....I don't think the reason fires can't be started in caves has anything to do with the smoke that would be produced or a lack of wood. Leave the bloody halflings alone!


Jeebs

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2012, 09:01:43 PM »
I believe there are some fires in caves aren't there? Pots of stew and fires that give the caves inhabited feeling when humans or humanoids are the spawns. Cauldrons of fire, torches. The Drain has a pot of 'stew'. I think the starter cave creatures have a fire going too.

All true, but I figured they're built where there's natural ventilation. Although, you can't cook anything on those fires (as far as I know anyway) and from an IC point of view, I wouldn't really be going into a cave hoping to find a fire waiting for me. Not to mention, the odds are minimal that the creatures that built said fire would invite me to share it.

Honoun

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2012, 12:19:46 AM »
There's GetIsAreaNatural and GetTilesetResRef. The former would be very easy to implement if areas have been properly set to Artificial or Natural, whilst with the latter could determine the specific tilesets that disallow campfire placing.

Ah yes, that could work nicely ;)

dark_majico

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2013, 05:26:03 PM »
I think a simpler way of creating campfires in caves is too include in the rest menu a command that only works in exterior areas (the same locations you can build campfires) to 'gather fire wood', same emote is played for build campfire but instead of creating a campfire at your location you are given an item that is a bundle of fire wood, use the bundle of fire wood on the ground and it fires a script to create a campfire which you can then light. So what this means is you go outside, collect fire wood for the camp fire, bring it into the cave and create a camp fire. Now to prevent players bringing camp fires inside buildings, you can make the script only fire in a "natural" terrain type, so no one can try to set up a camp fire inside inns and taverns and things.
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Constance Hollows

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2013, 05:51:25 PM »
Not sure that would be a simpler method, seems to me it would be simpler to tweak the script we already have that checks for wether the Camp Fire option doe snot show in unnatural environs.

Which begs the question, why can't we build camp fires on the road to Krofburg, specifically the map called "Road Going South" I think? Got ported to a ledge once and couldn't get down so I tried to the camp fire trick to shunt my char off it but wasn't presented with the option there.

dark_majico

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2013, 06:10:19 PM »
Not sure that would be a simpler method, seems to me it would be simpler to tweak the script we already have that checks for wether the Camp Fire option doe snot show in unnatural environs.

Which begs the question, why can't we build camp fires on the road to Krofburg, specifically the map called "Road Going South" I think? Got ported to a ledge once and couldn't get down so I tried to the camp fire trick to shunt my char off it but wasn't presented with the option there.

I'm not sure but my understanding that the current campfire script will only fire in a (natural?) external area. This is the reason it isn't available in caves and buildings because they are marked as (natural/unnatural) internal. Without re writting it and adding in multiple IF THEN functions to include internal and external but not unnatural might make it messy? That and if your in a cave, you can't gather fire wood, because caves are made of rock  :P.

Those zones are probably erroneously marked as internal zones maybe?
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Constance Hollows

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2013, 06:20:05 PM »
Moar cave squatting? ^.-
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Honoun

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 06:57:13 PM »
Not sure that would be a simpler method, seems to me it would be simpler to tweak the script we already have that checks for wether the Camp Fire option doe snot show in unnatural environs.

Which begs the question, why can't we build camp fires on the road to Krofburg, specifically the map called "Road Going South" I think? Got ported to a ledge once and couldn't get down so I tried to the camp fire trick to shunt my char off it but wasn't presented with the option there.

I'm not sure but my understanding that the current campfire script will only fire in a (natural?) external area. This is the reason it isn't available in caves and buildings because they are marked as (natural/unnatural) internal. Without re writting it and adding in multiple IF THEN functions to include internal and external but not unnatural might make it messy? That and if your in a cave, you can't gather fire wood, because caves are made of rock  :P.

Those zones are probably erroneously marked as internal zones maybe?

Well without actually seeing the script in question I really can't say for sure which would be simpler, just tweaking the script a bit or trying your method. Don't get me wrong I actually liked the whole collecting fire wood idea just that it seems like more work on the development side of things to me than tweaking an already present script. But again I could be wrong about that cause, as I have said, I haven't seen the script in question ;)

As for the zones marked as internal area... Could be, I'm assuming the mountain tile set is a heavily modified underdark tileset so could be that one area, at the least was overlooked when being created not to have its area type changed ;)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 06:59:19 PM by Honoun »

Exordium

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Re: Making campfires inside caves?
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2013, 03:51:50 AM »
Using the Natural/Artificial area property wouldn't necessitate messy code, as you wouldn't need to check for whether it's Internal or External. ;)

While the text that building a campfire gives, could be changed from gathering twigs around you to indicate you carried the firewood with you to the depths of the dwarven mines - when it would make RP-wise a bit more sense - I do myself suspect there are still a lot of places marked Internal and Natural where it was inappropriate to build campfires, or where there was a high potential for abuse, such as glitching through locked doors.