Cost of Customising Armour/Weapon Appearance.

[Soldier0fortunE]

Does no one else think the cost of customising armour and so on appearence is a little too...steep?

I just went to change the look of some new armour i just bought and it will cost me nearly 5k.

Surely the cost for customisation can be lowered? Or even removed?

Or am i missing some obvious reason for it being as high as it is?

Thanks.

[Crimson Shuriken]

Gold sink?

Don't feel bad, I splurged 8k in Port-a-lucine yesterday change a Shamans robe.

[Lucadia]

40k on enchanted armor. torso was 18k by its self though

[Soldier0fortunE]

40k on enchanted armor. torso was 18k by its self though

I can understand it being a bit of a gold sink but...that just seems rediculous.

[RedwizardD]

It seems a tad excessive perhaps. But take into account that ravenloft's system is still nicer and cheaper than the default. I mean you would have to pay that amount AND have a high chance to -fail- in the base game's crafting.

[Purist]

18k for a torso? There were no assembling lines prior to 1650, therefore, no item should be IDENTICAL to another.

[herkles]

18k for a torso? There were no assembling lines prior to 1650, therefore, no item should be IDENTICAL to another.

I present you the Venitian Arsanal which was the first factory in the world; they could mass-produce ships! But your point still stands.

For me, it can get annoying particularly as some of them are just ugly but oh well.

[respawnaholic]

40k on enchanted armor. torso was 18k by its self though

I can understand it being a bit of a gold sink but...that just seems rediculous.

Altering the look of just the boots on enchanted armor runs about 5-6k.

[Soldier0fortunE]

40k on enchanted armor. torso was 18k by its self though

I can understand it being a bit of a gold sink but...that just seems rediculous.

Altering the look of just the boots on enchanted armor runs about 5-6k.

Exactly.

If we're looking for a way to lose excess gold...then i dunno, introduce a tax on Outlanders or something.

[Feronius]

I think this is yet another moneysink with no real added value in IC terms, merely related to the OoC "economy" (whoever spends most time grinding?) and not affecting that one too heavily either.
The people who possess such items will only be encouraged to grind more, farm dungeons, etc. Rather than the whole purpose of customisation.. granting -more- choices and freedom to the RP, instead of restraining your customising based on different mechanics. A cost on appearance changing isn't bad, but I honestly don't get what a cost of a few thousand will add to the RP, at all. I think it's more a case of sticking to the original mechanics of the game for the sake of nostalgia or such?


But what if your character has lost a leg and hand? You're pretty much screwed over financially with every expensive armour you gain, being forced to convert it to a peg leg and hookhand for a few hundreds or thousands of coin. Or you can choose to either alter your RP in a convenient way purely to avoid the costs, but at the cost of the quality of your RP. Or you could grind your ass off in a likely very much OoC fashion (I say OoC fashion, because I can't imagine a character with a pegleg and a hookhand being that great of an adventurer.)
And lastly you could choose to stick to a cheap armour with far inferior stats, handicapping yourself in combat for RP's sake, even if you're in fact a powerful sorcerer who shouldn't have much lower stats due to the lack of a foot or hand.


It basicly comes down to the mechanics and most of the combat-related events on this server 9 out of 10 times being primarily OoC.
Unless in that 1 out of 10 times where you actually happen to be a rich adventurer who does earn thousands of fang and finds treasures to sell on a daily basis.

[Conjured Fantasy]

I'd have to agree with the cost being overbearing. Personally, I look to the appearance crafting system for inspiration and expression of a lot, if not all, of my characters. It's one of my favorite parts of designing and evolving my characters to represent who and what they are, but the cost of doing so worries me whenever I find a weapon or piece of armor I could afford and would like to buy, since I know I won't have enough to modify it afterwards. Naturally, the armor would look different, but I still wouldn't be able to return the little knick-knacks and alterations that add depth and value to the character (such as missing limbs, or a certain style of decoration.) The pricing of modifying equipment appearances (along with the dyeing system, which is another matter) often discourages me from progressing my character and better representing them in roleplay.


Just my two centipedes.

[EberronBruce]

Have the smith do the customization before crafting. Templates are free to customize. Hence why some crafters or smiths can be consider better than other because they will take the time to do this.

Also would like to point out the fact that how would someone with out any knowledge in metal working, leather working, or a various of other crafts be able to manipulate things such as plate. I don't know about you but I am not expert in ancient metal working and probably can't drastically change how a suit of plate look from how it was forged. I can throw a piece of cloth over it, maybe hammer out some dents, but not radically change its design. A trained armorsmith on the other hand might have that know how.

As far as missing limbs go like hands or such. Ask a DM. They are usually pretty good about things like that.

[Feronius]

Those are all very nice IC reasonings for how you can work around it. A typical style of answering usually given on these forums, so I noticed.
But it doesn't adress the actual issue of whether the costs are too expensive or not.

And if going by the purely IC reasoning, I still highly doubt that from an IC point of view you would be charged tens of thousands of wolf-fang by a local smith.
Even if it's a rare piece of armour made from expensive materials, that kind of money could from a lore perspective buy up a good chunk of Vallaki?

[LawfulJoe]

And if going by the purely IC reasoning, I still highly doubt that from an IC point of view you would be charged tens of thousands of wolf-fang by a local smith.
Even if it's a rare piece of armour made from expensive materials, that kind of money could from a lore perspective buy up a good chunk of Vallaki?

Let's delve into that even more.
  Local Smith... Barovians fear magic, why would any of the local smiths have the knowledge of how to adjust and in somecase completely change magic armor or weapons, so, there would be research and resources spent finding a smith with that skill and that level of skill is not cheap. Probably found in Port-Au-Lucine or Hazlan, so travel expenses as well.

  As anyone knows, modification adds and removes material. Magic items tend not to be made of broad cloth and sheet metal so there is also the cost of aquiring and using additional materials of quality to, for example, make your chain look like platemail.

  Travel comes with it cost of living, lodging, food, entertainment while you wait for this master level smith to finish.

In the end, that click of the craft item button adds up to a lot of IC behind the scenes. Does it suck that to modify any of my weapons it is going to cost $30k... Hell yes, but I do understand ICly why.

[Feronius]

 ..I'm still guessing the reasoning behind it is primarily to serve as an OoC moneysink, but alright.
Since I have never, ever, seen anyone RP the modification of an armourpiece. At least not to that extend.

And from both an IC and OoC point of view, I still think the pricing might be a bit steep. I also ain't sure why crafted items are often so much cheaper to modify?

[Knas]

When crafting original pieces the crafter is allowed to make the appearance at virtually no cost.

[Smitehammer]

Taking lots of money to craft something - annoying but sure, whatever.  Being stuck wearing some stupid call-out to Street Fighter and not being able to change it al all?  Now that's flippin' stupid.  Crafting could use an overhaul, and allowing customization is never not a good way to encourage people's role play.   Seriously though, making the best monk outfits stuck in permanent 'Cammy' mode.  Really?

[Uranos]

I've need to spend over 1k to change a normal full plate... NORMAL.. not to mention that I have an enchanted sword and changing it costs 2k.. what the hell? Come on.. there is no mechanical reason for charging that much! Changing item appearance should either cost very little or non. Its just an rp element.

[tzaeru]

Item appearances are supposed to be as in-character as is plausibly possible with the NWN engine; Changing that appearance is, by all means, also in-character.

Taken that the cost of a full-plate mail in PC markets is several thousands, spending one thousand to customizing it isn't a far-stretch taken how the actual metal that makes it up is often modified. And when you have PC enchanted items, you probably are anyway hangin' around with tens of thousands in your back pocket and triple that in banks.

[dutchy]

so nobody is thinking oh ppl need to dungeon and i mean really really need to dungeon to alter their looks.

got to be sarcastic here cause it is a good way to enhance and encourage diversity.

[Feronius]

Taken that the cost of a full-plate mail in PC markets is several thousands, spending one thousand to customizing it isn't a far-stretch taken how the actual metal that makes it up is often modified.

You actually bring up some good points again, I won't bother commenting on enchanted armour as I've got no experience with those.
But isn't it the case that the cost of customisation at times costs far more than even the costs for the entire armour..? or what they're worth originally.

I remember rather simple armours costing me more than what I paid for them to customise, especially if not bought from an overpriced vendor.
And then you also have to take into account the fact people might change something back and forth a few times OoCly to figure out how they want their appearance.
With the costs of dyeing added to the equation, I'm pretty certain I went beyond double the original worth of an armourpiece a few times through modifications. (Not speaking of 1gp clothing here.)



And taking it a bit further, but if we're so nitpicky about costs, how come changing your robes and accesoires is free of charge?

[EberronBruce]

Here is something you can do. Before you buy plate armor, talk to the smith that is going to make. If the smith is willing to lower the cost of the armor if you provide the template then that is good for you. If so, then buy the template, modify the template free of charge until you like it the way you want. Then have the smith make it for you.

If you buy armor that is just the base of the template design, then look at it as the quality of the armor is not that great. Full plate is just that, Full Field plate. Keep that in mind, it is really difficult to modify it.