Proposal of difference RP XP and Crafting Resources

[EberronBruce]

There has been discussions about how there are too many high levels in Vallaki. No matter what new domains or areas that are place this won't change that Vallaki will be the hub. There are several reasons why.

1. Player population. The majority of player population is in Vallaki. Thus if high level wants anything or wants RP xp, they have to be located where the player population is at.
2. Resources. There are a lot more easy to access extremely low risk resources in Vallaki area. Especially for smithing, but also in herbalism and wood working.
3. Where the action is at. Because of Vallaki being so populated, is also the reason why there is so much action, events, factions, MPCs there. The resources of different environments are not being used, especially in the AMPC or MPC section since they are mostly based around Vallaki. So, no AMPC mummies in Hari Akir or high lifestyle vampires in Port Lucine.

So how do you get  a majority of population willing to move is by having long term incentives to go. Dungeons won't do that because a person needs to find a party and that can be a very difficult task. From experience it can be very difficult to get others to leave Vallaki. Such excuses are like "I have to log soon." or "I don't have enough resources". Dungeoneering costs but may not pay back enough to cover costs.

One possible incentive is to increase RP xp in different areas. For example someone in Vallaki may get less RP xp than in the village of Barovia. Thus those looking for more xp might move even if temporary to another location. If enough people move then it could start a second hub.

Another is resources and crafting stations. Vallaki are is easy to get resources and to crafting stations. To obtain resources in Vallaki is extremely low risk. Why would someone go to a place to gather resources at high risk and to burn the potions and varnishes they are trying to produce on those expeditions? It becomes a self defeating purpose. So more areas need to easy access resources. The resources of coal and iron in the village is next to impossible to get unless you have someone with a high search skill, making it a poor place to attempt to gather such resources. One way is to make changes to some of the herbs in the area which instead of needing 4 kind of herbs to make a cure critical potion you only need two kinds. And that these herbs can be found all year around. Maybe have herbs that can make heal potions or other kinds of desirable potions. Make the reward worth the risk.

Another is special or unique crafting stations. Such can be a unique herbalist caldron that allows for more powerful potions to be made. A holy alter that allows weapons an items to be blessed. Or a station to make jewelry in Port Lucine. Tailor's shop to allow cloaks to be made. One example is the enchantment machine in Port Lucine. But due to the toll of the machine and the minimum use it doesn't produce a steady league of people to craft there. Usually one individual wanting one enchantment. Mind it can take a steady year of playing to reach level 14 for some people depending on their timezones and classes. 

With merchants and crafters you need people to buy your wares. This is a problem because through experience I only found one place to ever truly be successful in selling any finish products and that is the outskirts. I tried many places but no one goes there to even browse, even with signs and such announcing such a thing. So as a merchant adventurer you are stuck with the weight of the goods until you sell them, which grounds you to a location, so it is safe bet to stay in Vallaki currently. So, need to have reasons for people to travel to other locations so the merchants will travel to other locations.

Another is the action. To use stories, rumors, AMPCs, and other tools to create the desire for the players to relocate their characters to other areas. One small event won't do it because people will just return back to Vallaki. There needs to be a series of things that keeps them there, with or without DM support. There has to be a motivation that drives them to stay in that area. Whether it be actual gains from dungeoneering, easy access to resources and crafting materials, special crafting, specialize NPC merchants that sell specialize items that are desirable, so on. The place has to allow the PCs to sustain themselves so they can continue to take on tasks and not have dungeons so far away that they don't have the time to go and look.

I hope these give some ideas to help.

[Purist]

Yeah, Vallaki is a great magnet. I dont find reasons to go/stay anywhere else other than dungeoning for xp.

[Dumas]

One possible incentive is to increase RP xp in different areas. For example someone in Vallaki may get less RP xp than in the village of Barovia. Thus those looking for more xp might move even if temporary to another location. If enough people move then it could start a second hub.

Now that is a interesting idea. I feel like this could potentially solve everything... The pursuit of XP is one of the driving forces behind why players sit in the Outskirts. It's assured RP XP, and its somewhat safe. But if the Village or Dementlieu or whatever gave say, 50% more RP XP... now that would be a motivator!!! I fully agree with this suggestion.

[ManticoreRO]

One possible incentive is to increase RP xp in different areas. For example someone in Vallaki may get less RP xp than in the village of Barovia. Thus those looking for more xp might move even if temporary to another location. If enough people move then it could start a second hub.

Now that is a interesting idea. I feel like this could potentially solve everything... The pursuit of XP is one of the driving forces behind why players sit in the Outskirts. It's assured RP XP, and its somewhat safe. But if the Village or Dementlieu or whatever gave say, 50% more RP XP... now that would be a motivator!!! I fully agree with this suggestion.

That can be exploited. For example, I started with my garda in the village. A low level can level faster if this system is in place. However, a level dependant XP could work. For example, give higher xp for levels higher than, let's say, 8 (talking about the Village), but keep normal XP for low levels.

[HellsPanda]

If you boost XP in other places compared to the outskirts, you only move the problem, you do not solve it

[Avatar6666]

Panda I have heard all of kinds of solutions and it may not be solving it but it is best thing I have heard so far.

[Crimson Shuriken]

The only true excuses for staying in Vallaki the majority of time are 1) newer characters and the factions are mostly there and 2) that you can spend less time used for just traveling and looking for people.
The rest is just imagined or circumstantial, Truly. I can think of a better or equal spot for just about anything than vallaki.

[herkles]

I agree with making the resources more spread out, though admitably for arizima she doesn't need to go anywhere but dement/hazlan/har'akir and maybe the village. It has -everything- IMO. But removing some of the more higher ones from vallaki would be good.  I also think having a glider in dementlieu would go a long way as well.

[Telkar]

I also think having a glider in dementlieu would go a long way as well.

That, and a silver resource somewhere. Maybe I'm unaware of any currently around though.

[Zhernebog]

If you boost XP in other places compared to the outskirts, you only move the problem, you do not solve it

The way Im reading it is that the problem is everyones in vallaki even when theyve long since overstayed their welcome. Seeing as vallaki is where we all start, and with travel being so dangerous at lower levels, itd make it very inviting for people to leave vallaki soon as they can traverse the road to discover what other wonderful locations are available. This is a great idea.

[HellsPanda]

The thing is you need people to stay in Vallaki aswell as spread out, because you need people to be in Vallaki to RP with the newcomers, or we wont keep said newcomers.

To be honest the problem isn't that people are staying in Vallaki until they are a high level, its how those chars act while in Vallaki, they remove all semblance of fear for the newbies by acting like superheroes, without the collateral damage.

The only thing that can solve this "Issue" is a change of mindset of various players, and well the spread of resources and removal of low spawns on dungeons, but imediatly go to medium spawn and work up from that instead.

Also a look on how factions are spread out, factions are a good source of RP, but most of the "DM supported" ones are Vallaki centric, and that means the game will continue to be Vallaki centric

[docmartinst]

I agree that the mindset of players needs to change. For instance, Shy typically hangs out in Har'Akir, and really only comes to Barovia when he is needed for a DM Plot or to RP with a Select few people. Shy and his main party typically hang out in Har'Akir, not because of the great spawns, or the excellent loot, but because we want to explore the area. A lot of people don't know this, but Har'Akir is a truly beautiful domain. Now some of you might say "But Doc, it's a flippin' desert wasteland!" And I'll say; "True, very true. However, when I found the oasis of Apep, I dropped a log in my pants." In addition, some of those old temples are simply beautiful in terms of architecture, and the server messages (The ones that describe what you're seeing) are extremely well thought-out and provokes the imagination.

This is an area that could very easily become a hub, and I have a habit of taking lower level good-aligned characters there just to train and explore the setting. You might be asking why I do this, and no, it's not to help low-levels powerlevel. It's so I can give them something to strive for. The most common comment I receive after one of these "Tours" is; "Wow, this place is amazing!" This is the sort of thing I want to encourage as a player, because as those lower level characters become stronger, they're going to want to go back there with their own parties, and explore all the places I didn't take them to. They'll take their lower level friends there, who will experience the same wonder I did when I first explored the domain. They in turn, will want to become stronger so they can explore that part of the setting, bringing their friends along, who will want to explore more of the setting, and so on and so forth.

The key to this is to not just show the lower level character everything the setting has to offer in one go. Give them a taste, the barest glimpse, and let their natural human hunger for exploration take hold. This is the key to getting people out of Vallaki.

[Honoun]

Honestly... I'm getting kinda tired of trekking it to Har'Akir all the time.... I've not even been to Hazlan yet cause every group I seem to gather with always heads to that place with all the freaking sand. Then again, sand is a pet peeve of mine. Spent way too many weekends at the beach as a child to the point where travelling anywhere with excess sand makes me groan, seems to follow over to in game places as well it seems. Give me a forested mountain stream or lake any day.

[respawnaholic]

I agree that the mindset of players needs to change. For instance, Shy typically hangs out in Har'Akir, and really only comes to Barovia when he is needed for a DM Plot or to RP with a Select few people. Shy and his main party typically hang out in Har'Akir, not because of the great spawns, or the excellent loot, but because we want to explore the area. A lot of people don't know this, but Har'Akir is a truly beautiful domain. Now some of you might say "But Doc, it's a flippin' desert wasteland!" And I'll say; "True, very true. However, when I found the oasis of Apep, I dropped a log in my pants." In addition, some of those old temples are simply beautiful in terms of architecture, and the server messages (The ones that describe what you're seeing) are extremely well thought-out and provokes the imagination.

This is an area that could very easily become a hub, and I have a habit of taking lower level good-aligned characters there just to train and explore the setting. You might be asking why I do this, and no, it's not to help low-levels powerlevel. It's so I can give them something to strive for. The most common comment I receive after one of these "Tours" is; "Wow, this place is amazing!" This is the sort of thing I want to encourage as a player, because as those lower level characters become stronger, they're going to want to go back there with their own parties, and explore all the places I didn't take them to. They'll take their lower level friends there, who will experience the same wonder I did when I first explored the domain. They in turn, will want to become stronger so they can explore that part of the setting, bringing their friends along, who will want to explore more of the setting, and so on and so forth.

The key to this is to not just show the lower level character everything the setting has to offer in one go. Give them a taste, the barest glimpse, and let their natural human hunger for exploration take hold. This is the key to getting people out of Vallaki.

Harakir is actually everyones favorite exp farm. its probably the second most populated place on the server. it just doesnt appear so because people dont normally HANG OUT there. they go...collect a bunch of exp and then go somewhere else.

[EberronBruce]

Here is an issue to consider. I think it is safe to say that there are over 100 active players on this server. To have all of them to have the same mindset, well that is just wishing. It isn't possible to expect a large amount of people to think the same way or to have characters to act or think the same way. This throws a wrench in the player's mindset theory.

Also some of the complaints are that there are high level characters around the outskirts acting like super heroes that diminishes the experience from the low level characters. For a DM to make the area more challenging they have to send monsters that are challenging for the high level PCs which negates the low level ones. Another complaint is that high level characters run through the low level dungeons too often that the low levels don't have a chance for a challenge.

It is easier for them to gather resources and loot from low level dungeons than from higher level dungeons. For going into a high level dungeon you usually have to build a team and consume more resources than what is gathered making it a self defeating purpose. The loot is not necessary better or making it worth going to a higher level dungeon. The risk of going to high level dungeon is of course extremely high for soloing, depending on your build, and is too much risk for gathering simple materials for crafting. It can be extremely difficult to find a team depending on timezone. If for example if someone lives in Australia or Asia will have a difficult time finding others to party with. Also, high levels go to Vallaki area to interact with others. This is partly why people play a online game. And when you go to another area where there is no one, you could just sit there without interacting with other players. This can be quite boring. One of the motivations for interacting is RP xp, and this can be the only xp a high level character can get. Probably the last reason people stay in Vallaki are the special events and regular DM interactions there.

Also one must think about how much time it takes to gather a party and to convince people to travel. Then to travel to a destination. This is also a reason why people don't leave Vallaki.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now to say it is just that all the players have to change their mindset, is in my opinion, not looking at the problem seriously but to just push it off. What is needed is a carrot on a string that convinces the majority of the high level characters to relocate to a new area and to stay there for extend amount of time. For example, if a majority of upper level characters hang out in the village of Barovia, the dungeons near the village maybe constantly hit and empty but the dungeons in Vallaki may not get hit so much by high level PCs allowing low levels to shine there. Also, the village is closer to Tser Pool which makes it closer to the other realms, which the players may use that to their advantage. Problem is getting characters to relocate there will be difficult if there is no one there for them to interact and no reason for them to go there other than a dungeon run.

I made several suggestions in giving incentives to the players to relocate in mass. A big component is an increase with RP xp, but others include special crafting stations, special resources, easy to access resources, special loot, specialized shops, and the DMs can use their tools to set up events to entice PCs to go to another location. However, the DMs aren't on 24/7 so there has to be other motivations for the PCs to stay.  With any area the PCs have to be able to sustain themselves easily, or they will return to an area where they can. Risks have to be worth the rewards. Also, there has to be a constant player base in the area that will allow those that log in willing to stay to interact. This should be in all timezones.

[herkles]

Another reason why people stay near vallaki are factions and that is where the DM plots happen.

Of the factions the ones that are focused in vallaki are:

  The church of Ezra: a global faction, but primarly focused on the mission in vallaki
  The Red Vardo Traders: a faction is also global(has a base in dementlieu) but does not do much there thus it focuses on vallaki.
  The morninglordians: they are a church centered in Barovia, specicially vallaki
  Wayfair kenship: could exist anywhere, in Dementlieu even, but focused in vallaki
  The garda: obviously they are vallak focused due to being the guards of vallaki.
  The rebels: they are focused in barovia, but it does make sense for them.


This leaves the bel'verzi, society of erudite, and fraternity of shadows. Of them, only the erudites are in common knowledge where as the other two are super secert factions. I do think that having more global factions that are not based in Barovia could help remove people away from Vallaki.

Another issue is that most of the DM Plots do tend to happen around vallaki. For better or for worse, people hang out where there are DM plots, thus if the DMs want to encourge people away from vallaki then doing events in other realms could certainly help with that.

just some ideas

[Crimson Shuriken]

The motivations for anyone to play is to interact as characters in-character and in time see your character grow in various ways: mechanical, craft, personality, motivations or friendships/alliances.

I basically read your post as the server requires too much effort to achieve character growth anywhere but Vallaki. As the server has progressed, to make it a more welcoming and less daunting task for new players the Vallaki area indeed is somewhat like a warm embracing motherly bosom for new players and/or new characters. Of course, as a result of attempting to achieve that, its also a place that requires less effort or less endeavor to achieve dungeons and crafting.   Instead of using the higher character power levels in the setting to actually do higher power level things that require hint of endeavor you'd rather lower the bar elsewhere to be more like the full support of the Vallaki new character area for logistics of character growth. Is that not a self-defeating concept, since the entire rest of the server is supposed to be and is alleged to be made to pander to a crowd of characters that can tackle tougher challenges and gather together in higher numbers to find their own dynamics without being a disruptive element to the lower level zone. That you may have to fight something a bit too tough to solo to get ore? Its by design Bruce, so as to NOT be able to solo a craft that is supposed to be a tool for fostering more purposeful interaction among characters. Would having all resources be free to farm for crafts with every single craft zone in the village make it a hub? I don't really believe it would since Hazlan/Dementlieu/Harakir and the village of Barovia have everything in abundance. Its not even a hard and fast ideal and leaves a lot of intermingling among levels if appropriate and story based so its a line that can blur a lot, but the general loitering and random roleplay can exist anywhere. Its just indefensible that it should occur only on the Western Outskirts of the sleepy fishing village Vallaki. Such random meetings are actually easier to mesh with the setting within the mists with the Vistani to be honest if you think about it. That's a bit off track though..

There are many players who don't find any trouble with achieving character growth, anywhere on the server, except possibly guaranteed interaction on command. This is why hubs exist, is to provide as reliable an interaction as possible. Where that hub is, is the only thing that truly needs changing. All that has ever been encouraged is for people to let the newer characters have one hub and for higher levels to make a new one in the far expanses of the server.  Not a hard rule, but a general guideline. What's so hard about it, really?

[Honoun]

The difficulty is that any other hub than the outskirts, at least in my experience, is mostly devoid of any activity. Granted that the place where I live on this big world of ours has me logging on when the server is at its lowest player population is a factor. However on the same token with such a low server population the chances of finding anyone you can RP with is going to be the newbie area and that happens to be the outskirts of Vallaki. I've actually parked my high levels in Mist Camp now and tried to do this "If you go there and RP other players will come" routine there. The end result has been I rarely play those high levels now and am instead playing my lowbies cause I got tired of sitting around mist camp with nobody showing up for hours on end. I'll leave them there for the time being so if anyone wants a Battle Cleric or a pure Rogue in there party for any of the domains beyond send me a tell in game, cause I'm not going to waste my time twiddling my thumbs in Mist Camp anymore. Though I will occasionally log one of them in and check out the scene there, but I won't be staying logged in with those characters for long if there are no players present there.

[herkles]

as everyone seems to farm the ML crypts for vicar caps can there be places with them in abundence besides the ML crypts or how about remvoe them from that local?

[APorg]

as everyone seems to farm the ML crypts for vicar caps can there be places with them in abundence besides the ML crypts or how about remvoe them from that local?

+1. Preferably the former.

[Dark Locust]

Also as far as I can tell there is no travel system which lets players move around to other parts of the world. Traveling on foot is dangerous, perhaps if you implemented some sort of fast traveling system for a fee would take you to specific locations than players might be willing to go and explore a little more knowing that they wouldn't be ganked at a low level just trying to get there. If you want to players to move out of Vallaki which in my experience is the only relatively safe place to be espicially as a low level and a new player you are gonna have to find a way to encourage people to move out of their comfort zones in a way which will make them feel like they don't risk instant death if they explore a little bit. A fast travel system does this because it takes people to hubs where they can congregate with other players. Another idea is to put portals in the OOC lounge that just don't only lead to Vallaki which means if a character wants to start his story at say Hak'ar they can do so. I think a combination of a travel system and putting portals to other HUBs via OOC lounge would help some in regards to getting players to move out and try something new.

[tzaeru]

There's a ferryboat in Vallaki going to Fishing Lodge and Midway Haven.

Then there's, of course, the Vistani caravans.

Personally, I prefer not having an extensive travel system, though. Thing is that then you have high levels popping over to rescue friends and whatnot immediately from their secondary hub. Linking Vallaki's Outskirts with say, Dementlieu, after ~5 minutes of travel wouldn't make much sense, at least not to me. Not IC, and not OOC.

But what I do definitely agree with is that exploring around as a low (or even mid level) could be a lot easier. I don't think running to Deep Forest Wolves around Fishing Lodge is really fair, exciting or atmosphere-increasing. And when you constantly run to wererats and werewolves at night, they just become very mundane.

What I mostly feel is that during the day, many areas in Western Barovia should be safer. Less Deep Forest Wolves and such.

[Dark Locust]

How do you feel about the OOC portals in the lounge which let you pick a starting area in the begining where you first make your character? It could only be used once to prevent exploitation but it could be a solution to get players to spread out.

[Crimson Shuriken]

The problem with most proposals for fast travel is the your average joe bloggs level 5 would get destroyed without prejudice in all the far off and exotic locales, including near roleplay hubs as alpha deep forest wolves, caliban brutes, axe murderers, darkling assassins and many other relatively mundane higher level opponents are dreadfully dangerous for those levels. The journey to Tser Pool is sort of a rite of passage because if you can walk it you are more likely to survive in and around the Castle side of Barovia and beyond, its like a in-character merit system.

[Norture]

I disagree. I was making the run on a level 2 character because I wanted to try and do some smuggling RP and therefore needed to be able to go to Port. I really dislike the ogres on the road, if you're not a caster good luck going elsewhere to RP.

As much as people have this notion in their head that vallaki = noobland, village/port = where proper high levels should RP, the truth is that people just want to RP with their friends, or will go where the RP story takes them. The only thing I would ask for in that regard is removing the ogres from the road. I don't think it has to actually be said that the further away you get from the starting area, the harder it's going to be. There doesn't need to be some sort of impenetrable wall of invisible creatures that will smite low levels.