Author Topic: Animal Companion Death  (Read 9438 times)

Snowflame

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Re: Animal Companion Death
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2013, 02:12:58 PM »
Hmm, just a bit of a random thought. Not entirely sure if it is possible. But, could familiars and such be made so you can access their inv and equip items? If so, would it be possible to add some new weapon and armor recipes that use animal parts from other creatures to make "Creature Armor" or "Creature Weapons"?

That would help rangers and druids a lot. to be able to buy equipment for AC's altough it can get ridiculous... It's very possible and PNP but it can be ridiculous.

For Example I had a ranger that got a kappa shell for my animal companion... with like doggy boots and doggy rings and shit... it was the funniest thing, had this dog running around in a turtle shell with a little dog helmet... It was like... like...


Awwww yeeh

Miuo

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Re: Animal Companion Death
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2013, 02:31:52 PM »
Nothing fully crazy like capes, rings and such. More like "Armor" in the sense of something rather rugged, likely pulled from another creature. A Collar/Choker made from rope, leather, and something more refined for possibly other creatures that are more "pet" like cats and such. I doubt a druid would slap a metal choker onto their bear. .

Even just adding onto the animals talons, a example would be to a Crows Talons, the same way people do to cheat a "Cock Fights" where a small razor like blade is attacked to a talon to give it a leg up. Being able to add such onto the animal allys would give them a better leg up and something i think many people would do for their animal friends to ensure they wouldn't meet a violent horrible death because you couldn't protect them and sent them in completely vulnerable :S

I rarely see the use of Animal/Familiars used higher up because by then the builds and spells cast by hostiles no longer give the familiar/animal a chance. We cant control their build, or even armor them. So often times 1-3 hits and there dead unless you buff them up and even then the spells get cut threw rather easily. Specially when you choose a RP appropriate option vs what ever one is strongest.

Atm, they don't seem to serve a use beyoned the first few levels and then only useful for RP when you have need of them.

Just a minor pet peeve though, i tend to frown on the sudden summoning of such creatures. Specially for druids as they were just summoned out of some mystical portal, the creature was hanging around close by just not being seen. Like in the woods, if at possible could the visual effect be changed for some of these to a "fade into sight"? Where it looks as if they kinda just wandered up rather then a flashy visual portal opening?

Thoraion

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Re: Animal Companion Death
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2013, 04:17:39 AM »
blunt and short:

as far as i am concerned, the whole animal companion death system could be disabled again.
Since it is in place, i hardly see animal companions at all - which i consider a greater loss than the assumed abuse of some companions.

I have a character with a companion myself. I chose one of the combat-wise weakest ones available - and now the companion is completely useless in combat.
So it is limited to being a RP accessory.

But maybe that was intentionally made that way.
I don't get it...

I also don't understand why the attempt was made at all to combine the PnP-rules for companions with the NWN-engine - which represent an alltogether different and in some ways contrary approach to the use of companions.
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Miuo

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Re: Animal Companion Death
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2013, 04:38:47 AM »
One of the things iv discovered from such is that should a familiar/companion die and the owner loose the remains it can be near impossible to find them again. And if one looses the remains and can not find them. And can not "summon" a new one.  . .it kinda ruins the desire to be a caster.

Because of this, would it be possible that each reset mages/druids insta get them back.

Also, please have the remains describe what they are. Like how PC corpses are, it tells you their "race" along side gender and name. For familiars Name and Race would be nice.

And again, Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease make them zombiable.


Ercvadasz

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Re: Animal Companion Death
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2013, 09:26:31 AM »
So, here are my current experiences with the system.

Currently i play a ranger, who choose the wolf companion (which is quite a weak one, so it is more an RP tool than a combatant), using it as basicly a dog.
The companion is currently allways one level higher than my character, so it costs my level +100 gold to raise it.
Yet that one level really does not help the companion since it's AB,AC and HP gain are quite...well weak.
I regularly use the companion as a travelling companion when I do deliveries to Kroffburg.
At one time both the companion and I have been critted by the craig cats, whom I did not spot. (Had terrible luck with rolls, whereas the craig cats did not. My char is a spotter char.)
So basicly in a turn both my character and his companion ended up dead, and most likely the ox as well.
In this case since there were not many online, and since it would be quite OOC-ish in my book to ask for some logged on character for a raise help, i did a respawn and ran back.
I lost a level, and thereafter i had to pay my level+100 gold to raise the wolf, that actually is usually utterly useless in combat.
It does not matter if it is buffed up or not, since its Ac is weak, its AB even weaker, and hit points wise, it has slightly more than half my chars HP.
YET! It costs more to raise it, then my character!

So currently the animal companion is utterly useless.
The places where you could use it as an RP accessory are very limited, since many places at least have wildlife on them, and even the boars attack them.
The AI of it many a times just discards their given commands, AKA you command it to stand ground, which it does for 3 seconds then runs off chasing something that will kill it. Or when it should attack since it is being attacked, it just stands still, and waits to be slaughtered. The special ability it has, howl, it barely uses.
It does very low damage, has very low HP, and very bad AC. Not even buffing up helps with it, since using potions or Magic Fangs on it, is well a waste, since two lucky criticals and it is down. (Sometimes even one is enough, it all depends which acomp you choose.)

With the current system in place it actually encourages to use the HIGHEST hp having companions to be used, which actually hinders/limits the RP useage of the creatures even more. Since mechanically if you want to benefit from your animal companion the best choices are Dire Wolf, Bear or panther, since these have the highest HP.
I understand why the system was implemented, however placeing the companions with the familiars in pair seems a bit, needing a reconsidaration.
Since most familiars actually have something special about them/ on them.
DR, magical attack(curse, poison etc.), spell casting abilities, etc.
Whereas companions have: some have disarm or KD, but with VERY low AB, and the panther has evasion. And that is it.
Also a caster basicly can make them have 50% concealment which is a life saver, while druids and rangers...well at best barkskin or cats grace, or waste a number of potions on their pets to make them into a weak-mediocre usefull accessory.

My suggestion is to at least half the raise costs for animal companions untill the HAK arrives, where awaken will be a raise for acomps.
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respawnaholic

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Re: Animal Companion Death
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2013, 02:48:55 AM »
So, here are my current experiences with the system.

Currently i play a ranger, who choose the wolf companion (which is quite a weak one, so it is more an RP tool than a combatant), using it as basicly a dog.
The companion is currently allways one level higher than my character, so it costs my level +100 gold to raise it.
Yet that one level really does not help the companion since it's AB,AC and HP gain are quite...well weak.
I regularly use the companion as a travelling companion when I do deliveries to Kroffburg.
At one time both the companion and I have been critted by the craig cats, whom I did not spot. (Had terrible luck with rolls, whereas the craig cats did not. My char is a spotter char.)
So basicly in a turn both my character and his companion ended up dead, and most likely the ox as well.
In this case since there were not many online, and since it would be quite OOC-ish in my book to ask for some logged on character for a raise help, i did a respawn and ran back.
I lost a level, and thereafter i had to pay my level+100 gold to raise the wolf, that actually is usually utterly useless in combat.
It does not matter if it is buffed up or not, since its Ac is weak, its AB even weaker, and hit points wise, it has slightly more than half my chars HP.
YET! It costs more to raise it, then my character!

So currently the animal companion is utterly useless.
The places where you could use it as an RP accessory are very limited, since many places at least have wildlife on them, and even the boars attack them.
The AI of it many a times just discards their given commands, AKA you command it to stand ground, which it does for 3 seconds then runs off chasing something that will kill it. Or when it should attack since it is being attacked, it just stands still, and waits to be slaughtered. The special ability it has, howl, it barely uses.
It does very low damage, has very low HP, and very bad AC. Not even buffing up helps with it, since using potions or Magic Fangs on it, is well a waste, since two lucky criticals and it is down. (Sometimes even one is enough, it all depends which acomp you choose.)

With the current system in place it actually encourages to use the HIGHEST hp having companions to be used, which actually hinders/limits the RP useage of the creatures even more. Since mechanically if you want to benefit from your animal companion the best choices are Dire Wolf, Bear or panther, since these have the highest HP.
I understand why the system was implemented, however placeing the companions with the familiars in pair seems a bit, needing a reconsidaration.
Since most familiars actually have something special about them/ on them.
DR, magical attack(curse, poison etc.), spell casting abilities, etc.
Whereas companions have: some have disarm or KD, but with VERY low AB, and the panther has evasion. And that is it.
Also a caster basicly can make them have 50% concealment which is a life saver, while druids and rangers...well at best barkskin or cats grace, or waste a number of potions on their pets to make them into a weak-mediocre usefull accessory.

My suggestion is to at least half the raise costs for animal companions untill the HAK arrives, where awaken will be a raise for acomps.

I've used the awaken spell on my rangers companion along with a few other spell or potion buffs. The problem is this: Jacking their base attributes 2 or 3 points doesn't really offset the fact that they start with AC in the mid teens or single digit saves and don't tend to have any worthwhile combat feats to offset combat effects like knockdown. Their fighting ability isn't bad per se' it just seems a lot worse than it truly is because they have no defenses to speak of. My rangers pig for example hits often and for good damage, but after about 2 or 3 rounds I HAVE to unsummon it or it will die, and that's assuming its as fully buffed as a ranger can make it and also against moderate to low threats. A GENUINE threat can literally kill a fully buffed animal companion faster than you can toggle the unsummon command.

Just playing around I took mine into the Alhoon layer with Awaken, Barkskin, Cats grace, and Magic Fang up. This is a 12th level animal companion that was good for two rounds in the first room. It was good for two rounds because I was using the door choke point tactic and had it standing still ten feet behind my ranger until my ranger was fully engaged. I toggled attack nearest: it ran up, got one successful attack off for 15 points damage, promptly failed a discipline save vs the shaking roof, and got hit four times by two helmed horrors for over 100 points of damage. (one crit, and four hits out of six total attacks which is pretty close to average) If not for awaken boosting its HPs over 100 it would have died pretty much then and there. It has a base AC of 17 vs creatures with a base AB of 15 or so...does anyone else see the nut of the dilemma here?

So yeah...can we do something to reexamine the whole animal companion issue? For all intents and purposes they are pretty much useless for anything but a masochists gold sink.

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Re: Animal Companion Death
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2013, 03:37:00 PM »
Hey, maybe I'm just reviving a dead topic here but;

Would it be better to have the animal companion die and then have to return to like a druid grove or something in order to be arisen at no cost?

I think this would prevent the abuse of animal meatshields and not treating the companion as what it was supposed to be a companion. This would also lead to more of a revival sort of role-play and still keep a consequence (as the druid/ranger would have to trek all the way to a grove). I think the solution would be two-fold; Maintaining the consequence and showing that animal companion death is not to be taken lightly, and also that the hundreds of gold that apparently must be payed for would alleviate on companion dependent characters. A Druid shouldn't ever really be entering a city so money is probably hard to make for them.

Anyways, that's just my thoughts.
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swbf2lord

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Re: Animal Companion Death
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2013, 05:48:30 PM »
Hey, maybe I'm just reviving a dead topic here but;

Would it be better to have the animal companion die and then have to return to like a druid grove or something in order to be arisen at no cost?

I think this would prevent the abuse of animal meatshields and not treating the companion as what it was supposed to be a companion. This would also lead to more of a revival sort of role-play and still keep a consequence (as the druid/ranger would have to trek all the way to a grove). I think the solution would be two-fold; Maintaining the consequence and showing that animal companion death is not to be taken lightly, and also that the hundreds of gold that apparently must be payed for would alleviate on companion dependent characters. A Druid shouldn't ever really be entering a city so money is probably hard to make for them.

Anyways, that's just my thoughts.
+1
The current system has nearly caused animal companions to die out, and some players to grief others by killing their companion for no reason.

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Re: Animal Companion Death
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2013, 06:26:02 PM »
Hey, maybe I'm just reviving a dead topic here but;

Would it be better to have the animal companion die and then have to return to like a druid grove or something in order to be arisen at no cost?

I think this would prevent the abuse of animal meatshields and not treating the companion as what it was supposed to be a companion. This would also lead to more of a revival sort of role-play and still keep a consequence (as the druid/ranger would have to trek all the way to a grove). I think the solution would be two-fold; Maintaining the consequence and showing that animal companion death is not to be taken lightly, and also that the hundreds of gold that apparently must be payed for would alleviate on companion dependent characters. A Druid shouldn't ever really be entering a city so money is probably hard to make for them.

Anyways, that's just my thoughts.
+1
The current system has nearly caused animal companions to die out, and some players to grief others by killing their companion for no reason.

I stoped using them all together and started using summons. Not worth the hassle.


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respawnaholic

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Re: Animal Companion Death
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2013, 07:14:30 PM »
Hey, maybe I'm just reviving a dead topic here but;

Would it be better to have the animal companion die and then have to return to like a druid grove or something in order to be arisen at no cost?

I think this would prevent the abuse of animal meatshields and not treating the companion as what it was supposed to be a companion. This would also lead to more of a revival sort of role-play and still keep a consequence (as the druid/ranger would have to trek all the way to a grove). I think the solution would be two-fold; Maintaining the consequence and showing that animal companion death is not to be taken lightly, and also that the hundreds of gold that apparently must be payed for would alleviate on companion dependent characters. A Druid shouldn't ever really be entering a city so money is probably hard to make for them.

Anyways, that's just my thoughts.
+1
The current system has nearly caused animal companions to die out, and some players to grief others by killing their companion for no reason.

I stoped using them all together and started using summons. Not worth the hassle.

+1 Agreed. Their worthless in combat past low level and their just inviting a ganking by even having them out at all in normal areas. BABs just start totally outstripping their ability to take hits. I still use mine for mining....after I thoroughly clear out the area of hostiles.

Lockleed

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Re: Animal Companion Death
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2013, 12:52:45 AM »
Agree with the majority of the rest of this thread.  Animal companions, even heavily buffed by a druid, can't hold there own against the majority of PotMs enemies.  Part of that is because PotMs difficulty is balanced differently (higher, due to extra feats) than basic NWNs, and the animal companions aren't really setup for that.  If you doubt that, look at a mobat, with a +12 AB.  That, according to the sourcebooks I have, is a 0.3 CR creature.  I think the PotM one is a 3 CR creature.

My druid doesn't even use his animal companion anymore.  The AI is treacherous, gets them killed more often than not.  And I cannot stand the idea of letting what is supposed to be a lifelong companion casually die, that easily.  So I go without.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 12:57:50 AM by Lockleed »

Endlessorrow

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Re: Animal Companion Death
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2013, 01:06:35 AM »
Animal companions are indeed truly weak defensively. I recall plans to let them be raised by the awaken spell has this gone into effect?
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Re: Animal Companion Death
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2013, 01:42:10 AM »
I rarely use mine for the same reasons stated above by others.  Some buffing would be nice maybe.