Dungeons

[Honoun]

One thing that has me wondering all the time is what is the party size that all these dungeons are geared for? I was thinking five, but some dungeons seem to be pretty tough even when you have five and all are of the appropriate level for it give or take.

[Shadowthrone]

Dungeons are generally aimed at a balanced party of five people. Difficulty can vary depending upon what sort of foes you face, how skilled your party is, environmental factors, and how cruel the dungeon designer is.

Some of these areas being worked on I've seen, will kill any of Mayvinds' characters, easily.

Are you doing doable dungeon or Death Trap ? ... advertise come to this dungeon guaranteed you will die.

They can be overcome with parties. Soloing? I guarantee you will die.

If anyone (less Wizards spamming BBoD, etc and even then you will die) manages to solo Sithicus' apex dungeons, I will literally change my name to The Prophet of Lies.

Also, you will get a small award stating, "I made DT look silly."

The dungeons I have made for Sithicus are probably the easiest (comparatively) and are aimed at roughly a level 16 party. They can probably be solo'd by a level 20 if they are really determined to do so but that would just mean they are taking away an enjoyable experience from a potential lower level party for no particular gain to themselves, which seems like a bizarre thing to do.

You only get the "I made DT look silly" award if you solo one of his dungeons.

[The Prophet of Misinformation]

One thing that has me wondering all the time is what is the party size that all these dungeons are geared for? I was thinking five, but some dungeons seem to be pretty tough even when you have five and all are of the appropriate level for it give or take.

Ideally I would have a party of five members with the following archetypes:

(1) Fighter/WM, (2) Off-tank, (3) Wizard/Sorcerer, (4) Divine healer/sub-damage, (5) Rogue (heavy hide/ms).

Mind you, this is what I perceive to be "ideal." The point is to have a balanced party of at least four members.

i.e. the four wizard party (not spamming BBoD; you will still die) or fighters-r-us won't work - unless you are like level 20s taking a level 16 dungeon.

[Honoun]

Even so... I've been with a well balanced party of five, (give or take) and yet we still have trouble of doing the dungeon. Such situations make me wonder if the server is really balanced all that well. I mean when you enter a dungeon with a well balanced group and still have trouble where does the blame lie?

[respawnaholic]

Even so... I've been with a well balanced party of five, (give or take) and yet we still have trouble of doing the dungeon. Such situations make me wonder if the server is really balanced all that well. I mean when you enter a dungeon with a well balanced group and still have trouble where does the blame lie?

Most of the time a balanced party is kind of a rarity. I normally see multiple spellcasters trying to fill in for the fighters at mid teens + levels. That can be a real problem in some dungeons.

[Shadowthrone]

Even so... I've been with a well balanced party of five, (give or take) and yet we still have trouble of doing the dungeon. Such situations make me wonder if the server is really balanced all that well. I mean when you enter a dungeon with a well balanced group and still have trouble where does the blame lie?

It tends to come down to skill level. We have a very wide array of players on PotM with varying degrees of experience and knowledge of NWN and D&D. When designing dungeons, one has to take this into account and attempt to create dungeons that are neither too easy for the more experienced and knowledgeable players nor too difficult for the less experienced and more casual players. Since the Sithicus dungeons are aimed toward higher levels, we are creating them to be challenging but by no means impossible to complete.

[The Prophet of Misinformation]

Actually, I will openly admit the "last dungeon" is pretty much a death trap. It is intended solely for level 20s with a death wish.

[herkles]

so aside from dungeons there is going to be little to do in sithicus, ie few/no non-combat rp right?

[The Prophet of Misinformation]

so aside from dungeons there is going to be little to do in sithicus, ie few/no non-combat rp right?

I never made such an indication. Several "dungeons" are literally segments of the domain - they are not typical "beware all ye who enter this door" areas. The first ten hours of the domain literally substantiates a single dungeon - it isn't very difficult. However, it is a "dungeon" created to convey a story.. which will be more obvious if/when you visit.

[Mayvind]

Actually, I will openly admit the "last dungeon" is pretty much a death trap. It is intended solely for level 20s with a death wish.

So you wasting bytes creating dungeon that no one will visit ?.. why should my level 20s And frankly there not many level 20s out there to Group with in the first place want to go to that place ? Certainly not for XP ... so incase waste time doing dungeon nobody gonna visit making dungeon that worth a visit instead. You make a dungeon for people to enjoy and doing adventure for XP and Treasure. Admitting creat dungeon base on nothing but deathtrap to kill level 20 sound like no fun to me. I would not even going to do them if i have to be level 20 and in level 20 group party of warrior, rogue, cleric, mage,  and hybrid class or bard. five level 20 for ideal group to do it unrealistic since there no five level 20 in the same area for a long time now and RP different make them totally not going join hand.

Is like building a Plate Armor +5 weighting 1000 lbs and - 10 STR -10 CON, no one gonna use it they just dump it in trash.

[Lucadia]

..I would do this dungeon for fun. I like challenges, I like excellent team work and I assume its going offer some type of nice treasure

[Honoun]

What some of you consider a challenge I think of as just a headache in all truth. Heck if it wasn't for the high level of RP on this server which I can safely say is the best bar none I wouldn't have reason to log on at all. I'm not greatest roleplayer either, some things I struggle with but what I see other players and DMs doing tends to inspire me to try my best.

I am a little concerned however that the current trend is going down the "Hack and Slash" play style over the "Story and Roleplay" driven one. I mean some of the dungeons in and around Vallaki have a lot of story to them if anyone bothered to stop and read the notes that are left here and there that is. Too many times have I been with a group who just ploughed through those dungeons never stopping to smell the roses as it were. Shame really for they know not what they are missing. I'd like to stop and read these notes but everyone is in too much of a freaking hurry to get to the loot so there are dungeons in and around Vallaki that I still have not read all the back story too cause everyone is in such a rush to the finish, and frankly being left behind and alone on this server is not healthy for ones characters. This is one of my pet peeves I will admit, I really don't like the rush that most seem to want, to get to the finish.

All this aside though I'm still not aware of what the recommended party "size" is, character class or player skill not considered. I'm just assuming its five, seems like a good number to me.

As for this supposed last dungeon that's in the works that is a death trap for level 20s... You do want us to see all the hard work you put in creating said dungeom right? Well if its as lethal as you say not many of us would be willing to go there even if it was solely to just check it out and see what was done. Not that there are many level 20's out there I suspect. Leveling on this server takes so long after all, first ten go by real quick but then the climb to 20 proceeds at a snails pace. Two years playing on this server and I'm still not at level cap, true I don't seem to log in as often as some of you, but you know I do have other things in my life that need attention so I can't devote all my waking hours playing.

Well I seem to have written more than I intended so I think I'll stop now... 

[herkles]

Actually, I will openly admit the "last dungeon" is pretty much a death trap. It is intended solely for level 20s with a death wish.

So you wasting bytes creating dungeon that no one will visit ?.. why should my level 20s And frankly there not many level 20s out there to Group with in the first place want to go to that place ? Certainly not for XP ... so incase waste time doing dungeon nobody gonna visit making dungeon that worth a visit instead. You make a dungeon for people to enjoy and doing adventure for XP and Treasure. Admitting creat dungeon base on nothing but deathtrap to kill level 20 sound like no fun to me. I would not even going to do them if i have to be level 20 and in level 20 group party of warrior, rogue, cleric, mage,  and hybrid class or bard. five level 20 for ideal group to do it unrealistic since there no five level 20 in the same area for a long time now and RP different make them totally not going join hand.

Is like building a Plate Armor +5 weighting 1000 lbs and - 10 STR -10 CON, no one gonna use it they just dump it in trash.

I agree that sounds like no fun to me. and sounds like something that fits a hack and slash sever over a rp heavy server.

[The Prophet of Misinformation]

Actually, I will openly admit the "last dungeon" is pretty much a death trap. It is intended solely for level 20s with a death wish.

So you wasting bytes creating dungeon that no one will visit ?.. why should my level 20s And frankly there not many level 20s out there to Group with in the first place want to go to that place ? Certainly not for XP ... so incase waste time doing dungeon nobody gonna visit making dungeon that worth a visit instead. You make a dungeon for people to enjoy and doing adventure for XP and Treasure.

Pray tell, how do you know no one will visit it given that you know absolutely nothing regarding it? How do you know its size or the amount of "bytes" it takes up? That is some very wild prognostication.

As for this supposed last dungeon that's in the works that is a death trap for level 20s... You do want us to see all the hard work you put in creating said dungeom right?

Reward entails risk. If dungeons aren't challenging, then why offer a reward? That said, I err on the harder side of "challenging."

I agree that sounds like no fun to me. and sounds like something that fits a hack and slash sever over a rp heavy server.

Why don't you reserve judgment until you have seen it?

[BahamutZ3RO]

I want to point out that dungeons only stop being about RP when people stop RPing it.

[Major Tom]

In fairness, Prophet, you just advertised the dungeon as being 'level 20-only intentional deathtrap with very little chance of survival'.. which, given the way the server's designed in terms of treating death, and the difficulty of gaining levels - particularly if you're only gaining experience through RP and not through hack-and-slash grinding - it.. kinda does sound like a hack-and-slash typed dungeon.. I certainly wouldn't go near it if even if I did have a level 20 character. I'm level 10 and I rarely leave Vallaki because the whole server is stacked against you, even at low level areas.

Some people might enjoy the 'challenge' as a fun past-time, but to me constantly running the risk of dying because of creatures having stats beyond their fair and balanced statistics (freakin' wolves with stats belonging to war-wolves wearing full-plate..) is already an aggravating and unfair-feeling experience, and one that constantly reduces the likelihood of me wanting to explore because I wouldn't go looking to increase that feeling of annoyance and frustration..

Just my personal stance on it, though - I'm sure there's plenty of players who're more into the whole 'fatal dungeon challenge' thing (especially these days on the server) - I just don't think I'd have it in me to put myself through it.

[Mayvind]

Actually, I will openly admit the "last dungeon" is pretty much a death trap. It is intended solely for level 20s with a death wish.

So you wasting bytes creating dungeon that no one will visit ?.. why should my level 20s And frankly there not many level 20s out there to Group with in the first place want to go to that place ? Certainly not for XP ... so incase waste time doing dungeon nobody gonna visit making dungeon that worth a visit instead. You make a dungeon for people to enjoy and doing adventure for XP and Treasure.

Pray tell, how do you know no one will visit it given that you know absolutely nothing regarding it? How do you know its size or the amount of "bytes" it takes up? That is some very wild prognostication.

As for this supposed last dungeon that's in the works that is a death trap for level 20s... You do want us to see all the hard work you put in creating said dungeom right?

Reward entails risk. If dungeons aren't challenging, then why offer a reward? That said, I err on the harder side of "challenging."

I agree that sounds like no fun to me. and sounds like something that fits a hack and slash sever over a rp heavy server.

Why don't you reserve judgment until you have seen it?

Well I might come off sounding ungrateful for yours hard work iam not, iam very grateful for yours hard work and dedication to make area for us. But that say, i don't know the amount of bytes it take up but it would have been one to million bytes . As for no one will visit it just figure of speech they will visit it because of curiousity and if they find it to be impossible and deathtrap LIKE YOU ADVERTISE then they will stop visit it, how many level 20s you think we have on this server , how many level 20s you have yourself on this server? Atleast you have level 20 Lucadia and his party of 20s visiting it though.

Again thanks you for making it, but don't Advertise something as death trap or that level 20s death wish like dungeon if you don't really mean it and just word it to CHALLENGING dungeon for level 20s would sound better don't you think ? But then result is the same in the end be death trap or challenging and to know it is experiencing it. I know nothing regarding the dungeon but base all information from yours advertisement as the place using yours own word as Death Trap, and level 20 with death wish. So can you blame me when you painting yours own dungeon with those word ?

But again thanks for yours hard work to provide us with more dungeons.

[APorg]

Lucadia doesn't have a party of level 20s... last time we did Perf, we had one 19, one 18, and a pair of mid-teens... heck, one was only level 13 I think.

[Honoun]

Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers but I will say this, only death trap dungeon I ever enjoyed in my long gaming history was this one...



So if it's anything like that one I may consider it a bit of fun

[APorg]

omg, childhood memories XD

[The Prophet of Misinformation]

As is typical of myself, I remarked in the absence of any meaningful context.

The difficulty curve of Sithicus is not geometric - the dungeons become increasingly difficult the higher level they are. As in, the first dungeon "The Barrow of the Sleeping King" may be rated 5.0/10.0 in terms of difficulty for level 16s. Following this trend, a level 17 dungeon will have a theoretical rating of 7.0 and so on. I am entirely aware that death is punishing on this server. I have included mechanics to mitigate this. You can never actually be "trapped" in one of my dungeons. I can't say what they are, obviously, but trust me when I say "death wish" does not equate to "perma." One of the "apex" dungeons in Sithicus only has two battles in it of which one may be avoided. The dungeon rewards players straight XP for solving puzzles and roleplaying. Additionally, the overarching background of Sithicus (its story) is partially conveyed by progression through these dungeons. As in, dungeon A leads to dungeon B and then to dungeon C. If you can't beat dungeon B, then you cannot advance to C (normally). That said, all of the level 16-17 dungeons can be accessed without having to advance through earlier ones.

[Honoun]

Well that does sound a heck of a lot better, maybe I'll get to see it in a year or two... At the rate I level its going to take that long

[Heretic]

Its an awesome dungeon.

And lol, you guys & the nitpicking.

Tsk, feedback when its actually there.

Here's the ruined forever thread: http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=16791.75 

[Honoun]

Hey I remember that thread... Ah the memories 

[shadymerchant]

I am excited about these dungeons. I like a place so challenging that you not only need the right blend of classes, but skilled players behind those classes. When you are working through a dungeon like a well oiled machine it is not only fun, but it makes that group feel like they have truly come together. It adds a great deal to roleplay when strangers become brothers and sisters forged by the close calls of battle.


If that's not your thing, by all means, go to other dungeons. To imply that it has no place, or is a waste, is simply not true. I for one am thrilled I'll have this to lead groups into.