Author Topic: Jumping Alts  (Read 9410 times)

Strife

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Jumping Alts
« on: August 25, 2012, 11:10:05 PM »
 Many of you may know me, many likely not as I've been a bit tied up with real life to dedicate much time to the server recently, however this evening while taking some time to enjoy the server and those in the community (as a player) I was involved with an AMPC under the moringlord's church. All was well, with me and another player roleplaying the interaction when without warning, a group of about seven players descended, ignored most if not all role play and ran off in search of said player.

Now, before you judge me I've been here since beta open, I've played and DM'd extensively. I've been involved with DM plots, I've run DM plots and I've seen fantastic roleplay on both sides, however what I witnessed tonight was irritating. I personally witnessed players change ALTS (for lake of a better description) in order to partake in the killing of an AMPC. Before you plead ignorance take a minute, I know exactly what players switched and I have screenshots of the logging and player list.

Not only would I consider this "metagaming" it is wrong on many levels, the players that apply for AMPC's work very hard to create a vision, implement it and roleplay it for YOUR enjoyment. Lets be honest with ourselves, everyone knows AMPC's don't have a long life span, including those that run them. They don't do it for their own personal gains, but for the love of the server and those that frequent PoTM.

 I find it rather apprehensive, that certain members of our community would sink to such low levels as to switch to another PC (likely on the tell from another player, and shame on you too!) to partake in a event that you are not privy to IC nor gave any reason other than OOC to join, simply to end a story for you own pleasure.

 I think, a few of you need to take a moment and consider your actions IG. Remember,there is another person on the other end and more often than not they are trying their best to have fun too.

 I will go out on a limb and warn those that find this behaviour acceptable, it is not in my book and I doubt there are many DM's that would disagree.


DM Strife

 

Badelaire

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2012, 11:20:45 PM »
From my own AMPC experiences, I can echo many of the sentiments above. If I'm honest, it takes me like 15 mins to write up an app but it does take time out of your day to do such a thing and the sole purpose of an AMPC is to enrich the atmosphere of the server. Some small respect should be made for that time spent in order to gain what is a valuable RP tool for others. It can sometimes take up to a few weeks to get the go ahead for a monstrous character's approval and nothing tastes so sour as some lame ass who does nothing for the lore/politics of the setting, running up and spamming heal on you or some other cheap shot trick in the first hour of playing with his/her/it's buddies apparently having a psychic bond in order to help them.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 11:24:46 PM by Badelaire »

armybrat69

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2012, 11:27:48 PM »
After my last few encounters I have great respect to those that play such characters whether MPC or AMPC. The last few I have seen have been phenomenal chars and have given me something more engaging to do with my main.  Her own story is growing so much more now thanks to these encounters. Nothing I am realizing irritates me more than to see such a lame end to such villains. If we the players have a say in how our characters close then within good reason so does every player. I will not rant, anything else regarding this has been said, thank you.
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MistJumper

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2012, 11:29:34 PM »
that is certainly one way to look at it.

I'm probably going to piss a few off with this post, but its late, and at this point I believe it needs to be said.
Not all MPCs are always top notch in RP, at all times. Maybe this one was, Maybe this one was a perfect example of what a MPC should be, I don't know, as I usually try not to interact with them at all. That's probably the point at which the "i'm wrong" responses will come, so be it. The other part of this, the part you did not witness was the Rp taking place in the church about how to deal with said MPC in the crypt. There actually was some. There was a discussion that went on for over 20 rl minutes, Many PCs came into the church and joined it, as it was getting rather dark outside. Said group finally decided that a bullying abomination that was plaguing the popular crypts, that everyone goes into, needed to be dealt with. There was even the talk of some other PC that needed to be rescued from the MPC, before they, the PC was eaten to much to be brought back. These brave PC's many of whom had been in the outskirts for the better part of that game day, went down to take care of it. I did not see the actual killing of the MPC. by the time my toon got down there, it was dead. I know its not the first time it has been killed, and I seriously doubt it is dead for good. As for the MPC, its his/her own fault that its dead. They choose to go into the most popular dungeon on the server. They chose to stay close to the top, rp'ly harass, and let go others, and wait for the outcome. In the one dungeon that is constantly getting cleared, and re-cleared, and even rechecked before it is reset, the MPC might as well have slit its own throat with a holy sword.



Ellana Twiggy

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2012, 11:30:12 PM »
I think the same thing happened with fathers death, the vamp. There were only two people out side the church when atlantia emerged to see him as a statue and with in two to three minutes there was a crowd of over ten.  Not sure how the mists got cell phones, but it seems to be pretty prevalent lately.  

Mayvind

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2012, 12:30:05 AM »
Strife, sorry to say this but this kind of behavior is so normal since dawn of MPC i expected it in every encounter. And the AMPC have it much better now then the old day when MPC, long leveling freshly start as MPC losing levels suffers in the hand of so call login on theirs high level fullybuff behind scenes to chase and perma with out so much as roleplay. No wonder hardly see MPC around anymore exept Vampire spawn.

Hatsune

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2012, 12:31:09 AM »
Quote
These brave PC's many of whom had been in the outskirts for the better part of that game day, went down to take care of it. I did not see the actual killing of the MPC. by the time my toon got down there, it was dead. I know its not the first time it has been killed, and I seriously doubt it is dead for good. As for the MPC, its his/her own fault that its dead. They choose to go into the most popular dungeon on the server. They chose to stay close to the top, rp'ly harass, and let go others, and wait for the outcome. In the one dungeon that is constantly getting cleared, and re-cleared, and even rechecked before it is reset, the MPC might as well have slit its own throat with a holy sword.

The issue isn't that there was a band to go down and slay the AMPC... thats sort of the point of an AMPC anyway! Enriching RP that (most often) likely is going to lead to some sort of PvP. What the issue is here, is the fact that those said PCs (or some of at least, as the DM wouldn't be raising this issue in the first place...) WEREN'T in the outskirts, to be corralled into heading down... they were on alternate characters, and switched not to enrich any sort of RP, they wanted to 'kill the red, hostile monster'.  This is especially worse if said players were involved with the encounter in the first place, im not sure if thats what occurred or not.

I wasn't present either. But I beg to wonder how much RP occurred in said killing encounter too? I'd wager none. Missile storms or heals from invisibility would be my first bet. Really good use of a players time trying to actually RP some entertaining villains.

MPCs and AMPCs aren't about winning. They are there for entertaining RP. Sure, survival is important, but have some courtesy for fellow players, and hopefully they are having the same for you.
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Sinful_Wishes

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2012, 12:36:30 AM »
that is certainly one way to look at it.

I'm probably going to piss a few off with this post, but its late, and at this point I believe it needs to be said.
Not all MPCs are always top notch in RP, at all times. Maybe this one was, Maybe this one was a perfect example of what a MPC should be, I don't know, as I usually try not to interact with them at all. That's probably the point at which the "i'm wrong" responses will come, so be it. The other part of this, the part you did not witness was the Rp taking place in the church about how to deal with said MPC in the crypt. There actually was some. There was a discussion that went on for over 20 rl minutes, Many PCs came into the church and joined it, as it was getting rather dark outside. Said group finally decided that a bullying abomination that was plaguing the popular crypts, that everyone goes into, needed to be dealt with. There was even the talk of some other PC that needed to be rescued from the MPC, before they, the PC was eaten to much to be brought back. These brave PC's many of whom had been in the outskirts for the better part of that game day, went down to take care of it. I did not see the actual killing of the MPC. by the time my toon got down there, it was dead. I know its not the first time it has been killed, and I seriously doubt it is dead for good. As for the MPC, its his/her own fault that its dead. They choose to go into the most popular dungeon on the server. They chose to stay close to the top, rp'ly harass, and let go others, and wait for the outcome. In the one dungeon that is constantly getting cleared, and re-cleared, and even rechecked before it is reset, the MPC might as well have slit its own throat with a holy sword.

It comes down to the behavior and attitude of both the players and the MPC when these sort of situations happen. I wouldn't say your wrong; Interacting with MPCs is there for the people who enjoy it, and I know its not something everyone like. They are an element of the server that players donate their time to for the enrichment of the server and the players. I play AMPCs for the story and horror elements that many other people I've heard complained are lacking.. but its this sort of "I want to win, I want to kill it" attitude is what makes these villainy characters and MPCs so rare. It does not matter if I was in the Temple Crypts, on the roads, or somewhere completely random. Mobs of players will always show up if they find out about it because they want to get on the kill. I should also just mention in my defense, I chose to enter, but I didn't choose to stay there. Someone else decided to lock me in and I couldn't get the doors open.

I'm not hurt or angry about dying, but Strife does bring up some very good points. There is a player on the other side of that MPC, and as players you shouldn't be so worried about turning that MPC into a corpse, hiding the body, and ending that story. People who have interacted, spoken to me OOCly, or have seen me PVP should understand that I'm all about the story. (I can count on one hand how many people I've actually corpsed in a year)  I'm grateful to see that there are still several players out there who understand how to make things interesting from the player-side, and PVP/RP respectfully with a desire to progress the story, not win the battle. I've never seen anyone else emote lugging off every other undead creature that shows up in the crypts, so why take an MPC corpse just because its there?

And I'll stress again, I'm not angry about anything that has happened and there isn't any hard feelings towards anyone.



And some things to think about.

:arrow: Just because you know its an MPC in the dungeon, doesn't mean you should consider it any different than a standard monster.
:arrow: Don't be surprised to see Vampire MPCs in the Terg Crypts, or Wights/Ghouls in any of the Crypts. I've actually had players complain about this.
:arrow: Try to think of MPCs as an enhancement to your own environment when your present with one, not the ten people who have nothing better to do than sit in the church/outskirts.
:arrow: Lynch Mob RP/Ganks aren't fun for anyone.


I wasn't present either. But I beg to wonder how much RP occurred in said killing encounter too? I'd wager none. Missile storms or heals from invisibility would be my first bet. Really good use of a players time trying to actually RP some entertaining villains.

MPCs and AMPCs aren't about winning. They are there for entertaining RP. Sure, survival is important, but have some courtesy for fellow players, and hopefully they are having the same for you.


I'll go ahead and say, anytime my monster characters have been 'killed' has been by one of these two methods, every time.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 12:40:02 AM by Sinful_Wishes »
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Mayvind

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2012, 12:47:03 AM »
If DM would unleash Yves ... I welcome all lynch mob and ganks, better yet allow Morag to brifly escape from her domain and tramp around eating noobs again the balance will return !  :GRIM2A:

Sinful_Wishes

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2012, 12:59:19 AM »
If DM would unleash Yves ... I welcome all lynch mob and ganks, better yet allow Morag to brifly escape from her domain and tramp around eating noobs again the balance will return !  :GRIM2A:

Give me a level 20 wizard with immunity to knockdown and I'll put you to shame. :P
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MistJumper

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2012, 01:01:51 AM »
You chose to enter, and, you also chose to stay there. You could have logged, and asked for a DM to let you out. I know for a fact you had plenty of time to do that. I do get that the killing of a MPC can be rather un-exciting, especially if the Rp is not what you had hoped. However, your MPC took the same risk that my Characters take entering any dungeon on this server. that being, there may be something in there that will kill it. When the server is full like it was tonight with 50+ on, and events going on, and people crafting, lag can kill you too. Its part of playing here, we all except it, or we log out. I will also assume that MPCs fall under the same anti-farming scripts that the PCs do, that being if you log out, for a bit, and log back in you get ported back to your happy safe place.

Since it is my nature to fix things, here is a little suggestion for our server, that being MPCs can't be permed unless a DM is involved, And only after said Dm concludes that the Rp has been good enough to warrant the permanent killing of a MPC. That to me seems fair, when taken into account that a application had to be approved to get to make the MPC to begin with. Had this been in effect, a dm could have let you escape, or spawned enough undead to make the PC's retreat. or a host of other outcomes.

However, since such a change in rules will take CC and probably weeks of meetings, I, as a player with a evil cleric, would be happy to try and RP raising you back up, as that PC has a great interesting in the undead. It may take DM involvement to do it, but I would welcome the Rp.

Sinful_Wishes

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2012, 01:07:38 AM »
You chose to enter, and, you also chose to stay there. You could have logged, and asked for a DM to let you out. I know for a fact you had plenty of time to do that. I do get that the killing of a MPC can be rather un-exciting, especially if the Rp is not what you had hoped. However, your MPC took the same risk that my Characters take entering any dungeon on this server. that being, there may be something in there that will kill it. When the server is full like it was tonight with 50+ on, and events going on, and people crafting, lag can kill you too. Its part of playing here, we all except it, or we log out. I will also assume that MPCs fall under the same anti-farming scripts that the PCs do, that being if you log out, for a bit, and log back in you get ported back to your happy safe place.

Since it is my nature to fix things, here is a little suggestion for our server, that being MPCs can't be permed unless a DM is involved, And only after said Dm concludes that the Rp has been good enough to warrant the permanent killing of a MPC. That to me seems fair, when taken into account that a application had to be approved to get to make the MPC to begin with. Had this been in effect, a dm could have let you escape, or spawned enough undead to make the PC's retreat. or a host of other outcomes.

However, since such a change in rules will take CC and probably weeks of meetings, I, as a player with a evil cleric, would be happy to try and RP raising you back up, as that PC has a great interesting in the undead. It may take DM involvement to do it, but I would welcome the Rp.


Some clarifications:
When I logged in, I was not left alone long enough to admit me the ability to log out without cheesing an escape. I had actually logged out for dinner earlier, and logged back in to find myself in the middle of PCs, which I had to react accordingly. I tried to leave after this first group, but the doors were locked and I was stuck, while checking, I ran into more players and thus everything else unfolded.

MPCs do not teleport out of dungeons upon being logged out.

Again, I have absolutely no care about dying. This issue at hand is people switching characters, or forcing themselves into a situation because they just want to end someone elses character without worrying about story, but rather, winning and being the hero. The only reason the MPC -did- come back, was because someone took the time to roleplay doing it.
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Ophelia: I got Osvald's bag of traps, now I'm forever encumberedt.

Juice

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2012, 01:30:08 AM »
Pretty sure alot has changed since the beta days and i certainly know alot has changed in my time on the server, I remember the good ol days where a caliban was shot on sight and witchcraft was a lynching or burning at the stake no matter who you were. But if i continue ill head of topic, in relation to DM Strife and the events he witnessed I agree with everything and i have also witnessed this sort of thing going on along with a number of other Meta-game related incidents. To put it bluntly (as i always do, and im sure this is in the rules somewhere) your characters have no idea what any of your other characters see, Nor do they have the sixth sense to tell when danger is afoot. We had an incident where we were killing an AMPC vampire with a DM watching and then out of no where a high level PC Fully buffed ran in killed everyone and washed the holy water off the only door out of charnel house and let the AMPC go free. I personaly think standards have dropped but this is not the time or place to discuss that.

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Strigoi

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2012, 03:03:21 AM »
it takes allot of work helping maintain the setting. people who play authentic natives and MPCs, do it to help orchestrate the setting. to make it feel more immersive and enjoyable for everyone. its why when i came here originally, i played nothing but Natives and MPCs. i fell in love with the setting and wanted to support it however i could.

playing a MPC is a thankless job from my own experience. ive actually caught a player who sent a OOC tell to me accidentally (was meant for her friend). she gave away my location, my characters classes, and my level so her friend could come save her. was very upsetting and i wish that was the worst of it but it isnt. those who intentionally try to ruin the setting for self gratification need to stop.

MPCs in my opinion have it harder than any DM or player. they have to go through the pain staking application process for each MPC/ampc character they make. then they have to put up with people that show disrespect to them and the setting (whether its "red your dead", or yelling at them in OOC). and unlike a DM, they have to take constant criticism and judgements on every single play style/horror event they orchestrate (lets be honest, no one would do that to a DM, least not in a negative approach). im not a MPC anymore, and i still get criticized about it on the forums sometimes indirectly. all in all it often is a frustrating role to play, all for the benefit of the setting, and your enjoyment.

sorry if i come off strong, but people should be told when they are wrong. i think the players in question should man up and apologize to the MPC player and take some responsibility for themselves.

BalorVale

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2012, 03:11:30 AM »
This is a sad look into the Outskirts RP that has evolved. Honestly, any character looking to kill an MPC who takes the time and effort to write the application; and develop the character for the sake of bragging rights should be ashamed. This may sound harsh, but we are trying to tell a group story, with depth, take your missile storms and kill skeletons, Role Play with MPC's they work hard and spend alot of time in solitude to enrich the setting that exists, if you want to slay them, work something out. This kind of behavior disgustes me to absolutely no end. Not only is this Trust breaking on the part of the MPC but what story was created? None.

When an AMPC retreats, you know they have a shelf-life, they will die within the month, they aren't there to destroy your play time; They are approved because the DM's trust them to add to the setting; I make it my personal policy and I will freely tell you, I will NEVER corpse a person as an AMPC/MPC not ever. Because RP finds a way to die when players get angry, Imagine if the MPC logged on his alternate account with three of his friends and ganked every person who killed his MPC? No. That doesn't happen, so it shouldn't happen the other way around.

I am whole-heartedly dissapointed in the lack of story-building displayed here. And it really shows how far some will go to win.

If I'd like to go back to a bunch of PvP hungry "Winners" I'd go play world of warcraft, in fact I reccomend it to all who participate in this same 'winning' mentality. Have fun with your lack of community written story. Please, don't corrupt the story for those of us who wish to see the gothic horror shine.

Continue with your "Lol my spleens" in the outskirts, or joking about peeing on a tree as a druid. Just please, take it somewhere else, This is PoTM the RP Elite. We are the best at what we do, Ravenloft as a setting deserves more respect then to be demoted to a chat room with a setting.

I challenge every single person to instead of clicking on the red figure; think about the player behind that screen, the story THEY want, how you can make THIER time better, empathise, a Good villain is Antagonistic IC and friendly OOC talk to them, most likely you will get a reasonable person whom shares your views that their character needs to die. A man/woman who charges into the fray without knowing even a single bit about their opponent just because they are red? Is not there to tell a story. Once more I shall challenge, that each one of you will take this event; learn from it, and make a story. Promise yourselves and the community you are not here to win; but to create a story.

These are my two cents; Two cents I happen to be very passionate about.

Balorvale.

Mayvind

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2012, 03:56:52 AM »
about peeing on a tree as a druid. Just please, take it somewhere else, This is PoTM the RP Elite.


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tzaeru

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2012, 04:05:54 AM »
 :?

I don't really think there is an excuse in that it had always been like this, at all. I generally feel it's more tied to greater player count; Harder to maintain a sense of community, harder to know the other players, so it's not always obvious why they do what they do, and how the server works as a whole, especially to newcomers who have even less of the benefit of knowing others.

But like Strife says above, it is extremely bad sport and in fact, I am fully sure it is against the rules and the whole foundation of the server and I find it really sorry that such behaviour has been on a raise.

This is a sad look into the Outskirts RP that has evolved. Honestly, any character looking to kill an MPC who takes the time and effort to write the application; and develop the character for the sake of bragging rights should be ashamed. This may sound harsh, but we are trying to tell a group story, with depth, take your missile storms and kill skeletons, Role Play with MPC's they work hard and spend alot of time in solitude to enrich the setting that exists, if you want to slay them, work something out. This kind of behavior disgustes me to absolutely no end. Not only is this Trust breaking on the part of the MPC but what story was created? None.

When an AMPC retreats, you know they have a shelf-life, they will die within the month, they aren't there to destroy your play time; They are approved because the DM's trust them to add to the setting; I make it my personal policy and I will freely tell you, I will NEVER corpse a person as an AMPC/MPC not ever. Because RP finds a way to die when players get angry, Imagine if the MPC logged on his alternate account with three of his friends and ganked every person who killed his MPC? No. That doesn't happen, so it shouldn't happen the other way around.

But isn't the most fitting end for a MPC or AMPC being slain my the more protagonist PCs? Furthermore, whilst I do as well try to keep game mechanical combat as the last resort, in particular with characters who would be much lower level, there's only so far you can go with avoiding combat or offering chances of escape while keeping things plausible.

And after all, I don't think the point is in another player, MPC or not, unraveling a ready story before your eyes, but that the story is lively and always influenced by all sides. Stories get concluded, sometimes by death, and particularly in the case of AMPC I do think that their point kind of is in meeting their end before their maximum time is up.

Though it is certainly true that bragging right or getting another notch in your belt is not the right motivation for the choices made by your character and you as a player. But it's equally true that a villain's death is not a poor conclusion to a story and that the stories of the heroes are at least equally important as the stories of the villains. I'm not meaning to target this on you BalorVale, but I've wanted to quote something out of Ravenloft player's handbook for quite some time about the nature of good vs. evil:
Quote from: Ravenloft Player's Handbook
In Gothic stories, people tend to get what they deserve when all is said and done. In the end, evil is destroyed and good prevails. Innocents may suffer or even die along the way, but we can be more or less certain that they receive the rewards they deserve in the next life.
One important thing of note in Gothic tales is that justice delayed is far from being justice denied. Evil may thrive for long period of time, but it gets what it deserves eventually. It may take years, decades or even generations.

In a way, I've long felt that the position and status of heroes is largely undermined - but simultaneously, they are a huge part the cornerstone of Ravenloft. Yes, on one hand, we've great many of high level players seeking to annihilate MPCs at sight, but at the same time, how often are there long plots for the pure and heroic that get resolved without turning to evil? And why is the role of the MPC so privileged and praised, when a well-played hero is equally important?

EDIT: I just realized how horribly off-topic that went for me. :oops: Maybe might split it to some more generic topic.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 04:08:54 AM by tzaeru »

BalorVale

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2012, 04:25:13 AM »
In a way, I've long felt that the position and status of heroes is largely undermined - but simultaneously, they are a huge part the cornerstone of Ravenloft. Yes, on one hand, we've great many of high level players seeking to annihilate MPCs at sight, but at the same time, how often are there long plots for the pure and heroic that get resolved without turning to evil? And why is the role of the MPC so privileged and praised, when a well-played hero is equally important?

EDIT: I just realized how horribly off-topic that went for me. :oops: Maybe might split it to some more generic topic.

It is not the fact that heroes are not important cornerstone pieces required for constructing a good story, but they are characters to be played, when it all resorts to mechanics, nobody wins. Situations like these show more and more how we need to step back a moment and empathize as not only Heroes, but villains as well, if everyone is a hero, then nobody is a hero. Darkest Darks makes Brights Brighter!

A villains death is not a improper closure, I am not saying I'm here to ban death or consequences from the server; but it should only be done in the spirt of furthering the story, not the attainment of some form of reknown contest it seems to have become.

MPC's are there to further the setting, they take very real elements of the setting and allow heroes to shine, but if all your doing is clicking on them, your not shining, your just killing. I love when the cleric pulls out his Holy Symbol; recites to me the prayer of his God forcing the symbol at me, I love it when I am tricked in my insane antics and slain but a steak through the heart, or when a silver arrow is shot through my chest as I howl one last time. I am one of those wierd people who enjoys beautiful deaths, where stories are told not only about:
"Hey Didja hear bout that there were-wolf  killed?" but instead;

 "Did you hear about the Were-wolf who used to haunt the northern graveyard? The one with the scar on his chest? . .  Nobody goes up there anymore. .  it could be haunted, sometimes you hear the howls in the dark of night when the moon is full, could be a spirit. .  could be it's not as dead as we think. ."

Heroes shine with RP. Villains shine with RP. I'll even use a bit of your quote.

"In Gothic stories, people tend to get what they deserve when all is said and done. In the end, evil is destroyed and good prevails." By placing this quote on material I am very familiar with you are agreeing this is a story, not an unfair assumtion I presume. Stories happen when you stop using your left click button on the red guy and start using the keyboard.

Heroes have their place; but it isn't clicking, it's typing. Just like villains.

HellsPanda

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2012, 04:29:54 AM »
All chars are there to strengthen and enforce the setting.

shadymerchant

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2012, 06:41:48 AM »
Pretty sure alot has changed since the beta days and i certainly know alot has changed in my time on the server, I remember the good ol days where a caliban was shot on sight and witchcraft was a lynching or burning at the stake no matter who you were. But if i continue ill head of topic, in relation to DM Strife and the events he witnessed I agree with everything and i have also witnessed this sort of thing going on along with a number of other Meta-game related incidents. To put it bluntly (as i always do, and im sure this is in the rules somewhere) your characters have no idea what any of your other characters see, Nor do they have the sixth sense to tell when danger is afoot. We had an incident where we were killing an AMPC vampire with a DM watching and then out of no where a high level PC Fully buffed ran in killed everyone and washed the holy water off the only door out of charnel house and let the AMPC go free. I personaly think standards have dropped but this is not the time or place to discuss that.

Funny that you would mention character limitations, and then disregard that when it comes to your character. A DM was even there, watching, as you said. Yet you still seem to be missing that part where maybe all the pieces of the puzzle don't belong to you. Even better, you are the only PC I left alive.

It was a problematic scenario, but part of the problem these days, the root of it all actually, is a lack of player respect for MPC's. It's too bad you don't remember the days older than "we killed monsters," back to the time when monsters killed players and they did not explode into raging tantrums because they didn't win the day. To give credit where credit was due though, I talked with most of the people involved that scene that died and we resolved the issue between ourselves.

Sorry you had to stand in a doorway and vaguely participate in a scene that wasn't about you.

Mayvind

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2012, 08:32:34 AM »
Old days is not better, infact there even a player using OOC tell to ask set up a meeting to RP, so that he can  kill my MPC Yves Zun! (he did not include that info in tell though ! )  Luckily i survived his barage of searing light attack spells (did not RP more then So you Yves Zun DIE "shoot ray of light" )  :bow:

Strangely enough i think, RP attitude vs MPC is better nowadays then the old day. Base on more players ratio. But then what do i know i have not been playing my MPC for loooooong looooooong time.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 08:34:57 AM by Mayvind »

EberronBruce

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2012, 10:51:40 AM »
First things first. The title is Jumping Alts. Which I can contest this. I seen players jump to different characters particularly with certain conflicts. I seen it happen with more player run groups then I seen it with DM supported groups. This in itself, I believe, is problematic. It would be like having a Gundar Rebel and a Garda character that you jump between. Of course this doesn't happen because they are DM supported faction, but the same can apply with factions that are not DM controlled or in the case of a AMPC or MPC as Strife pointed out.

I also recall one instance that a DM had a particular NPC vampire in the Morninglord crypts. I just barely started in the ML faction at the time so this was like a year ago. Flyers were put out at the time looking for experience Vampire hunters to handle the NPC. Only one person step forward. Hmmm..

There are factions out there that focus on hunting monsters and undead. Unfortunately, MPCs and AMPCs fall under this category. I say unfortunately is because it seems everyone and their mother has a set beef with them and is hunting them. It  just seems like everyone wants to be a vampire hunter or hunter of creatures other than minks. This can be seen by how frequent the Terg crypts is visited, but I am not sure how much research they put in to learn about set foe. You end up seeing some paladin or cleric soloing the place while most others cannot.

As far as AMPCs or MPCs go and such factions that hunt them, I have yet to see such faction immediately kill them. What ends up happening is the players of the faction does research and gathers information. I will not drop what kind of information here though. The players can spend a very long time and work in teams to investigate them. The file on Mark Johnson's MPC Father was huge. As a faction, we try to rp out and gather up things. It becomes frustrating for a team who spends time studying a MPC or AMPC for it to be taken out by one person who happened to be in the area. This is why I prefer going after DM NPC monsters, because at least your team's efforts don't get wiped out but instead the team can blossom in their experience.

I think the AMPC that was killed was a ghoul. I only heard about it last night my time when I was on. For me the time was so short before I could get any information on it other than a Falkovian ghoul that might have spells. Bah....

I can see why AMPC or MPC haunt the outskirts. If they go else where, then they will be bored out of their skulls. You can't add to the environment if there is no one around to share it with.  But they again it is the same with everyone so the outskirts has every level range possible so thus it is not a good place for set environment.

eyeofpestilence

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2012, 01:35:07 PM »
Old days is not better, infact there even a player using OOC tell to ask set up a meeting to RP, so that he can  kill my MPC Yves Zun! (he did not include that info in tell though ! )  Luckily i survived his barage of searing light attack spells (did not RP more then So you Yves Zun DIE "shoot ray of light" )  :bow:

Strangely enough i think, RP attitude vs MPC is better nowadays then the old day. Base on more players ratio. But then what do i know i have not been playing my MPC for loooooong looooooong time.

The old days were when mpc's ruled the outskirts in a pack. The good PC's were killed with high lvl of frequency with some purposely left alive to clean up the blood bath left. The nights were something to be feared.

Were they the good old days? Dependant upon how each player felt about their pc's involvement in what occurred. These scenes back then were less about rp more about pvp. MPC's and AMPC's have evolved towards a very rp driven story environment. I personally believe the server has become better with age.

Regardless playing either side, it's about story. Ending a pc, mpc or ampc means you are finishing a story. Great pc's, be they PC, MPC, or AMPC's, develop significant story which can touch most every PC on the server in some form or fashion. In short ending stories should be done with respect for the other player involved.

Thanks DW!

ManticoreRO

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2012, 02:26:37 PM »
  This reminded me about a specific scene that happened just after NCW. We cleared the crypts down to the lowest level then two calibans AMPCs appear. They were already red. We rped for some time then all my party attacked them, just like that. They weren't even buffed or anything. One died, thus perma. I didn't even have time to say anything. As they didn't have time to actually respond. One of them, the one who died, was a sorceror. He stood no chance.
  I think we owe them more than this. Just think how much time is put into such character concept. Then the application and all the fuss. They deserve more than this.
Elena Vasilovici - "Better die for something than live for naught"

Juice

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Re: Jumping Alts
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2012, 03:32:53 PM »
Pretty sure alot has changed since the beta days and i certainly know alot has changed in my time on the server, I remember the good ol days where a caliban was shot on sight and witchcraft was a lynching or burning at the stake no matter who you were. But if i continue ill head of topic, in relation to DM Strife and the events he witnessed I agree with everything and i have also witnessed this sort of thing going on along with a number of other Meta-game related incidents. To put it bluntly (as i always do, and im sure this is in the rules somewhere) your characters have no idea what any of your other characters see, Nor do they have the sixth sense to tell when danger is afoot. We had an incident where we were killing an AMPC vampire with a DM watching and then out of no where a high level PC Fully buffed ran in killed everyone and washed the holy water off the only door out of charnel house and let the AMPC go free. I personaly think standards have dropped but this is not the time or place to discuss that.

Funny that you would mention character limitations, and then disregard that when it comes to your character. A DM was even there, watching, as you said. Yet you still seem to be missing that part where maybe all the pieces of the puzzle don't belong to you. Even better, you are the only PC I left alive.

It was a problematic scenario, but part of the problem these days, the root of it all actually, is a lack of player respect for MPC's. It's too bad you don't remember the days older than "we killed monsters," back to the time when monsters killed players and they did not explode into raging tantrums because they didn't win the day. To give credit where credit was due though, I talked with most of the people involved that scene that died and we resolved the issue between ourselves.

Sorry you had to stand in a doorway and vaguely participate in a scene that wasn't about you.

Excuse me. Im going to ignore the comment about the older days because ive had my fair share of MPC's, AMPC'S and especially PC's Killing off my character's. To start you wernt the only character to burst into the door and try to make the story their own (so im sure many a tell was sent to friends in the area), But as for pieces of the puzzle that dont belong to me? We were a little group in charnel house trying to disperse of a vampire, someone came and got me "ICly" to help. If this was apart of some big story you had going on and such then great but my involvement was to disperse of the vampire in any way my character knew how.

Ill make a note here and now i rage about a character death when some behind the scene's BS seems to have gone on. And on that note i dont think ive ever raged at a AMPC or MPC for killing any of my character's, If im wrong about that and someone can correct me i take it back. But It seems in my inbox the only messages ive gotten from DM's about rage are for when a PC or DM has offedor harrased one of my character's.

Pobodies Nerfect and i accept my mistakes from the past.

Credit Where credit is due. Heres your credit  :twocents:

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Straven Crowe -  Hes somewhere around here.....