Elite Vampiresses and Mechanics

[Purist]

I don't know if it was a script in place or if that was a DM controlled Elite Vampiress, but she kept disappearing very quickly, like she was using HIPS (even though my character carries a sword that glows and a ring that has a 15m radius white light), thus merchanically forcing my character to lose targeting. That was unsatisfing in terms of fairness, because it exploits a mechanical flaw. My character was using improve expertise and since targeting was broken... he would get off that mode, become flat footed and then receive two or three attacks until I could finally target the "beach" again and return to improved expertise mode. It's acceptable that an elite vampiress maybe have some sort of attack that makes her "dance with the shadows", even through the lighting was strong, she could get her attacks, but my character shouldn't leave improve expertise mode at all IMO... It really is a mechanical exploit, something broken. Can this sort of scripting/attitude be reviewed in the name of fairness and gameplay?

[HellsPanda]

Well elite vampiresses have HiPS, so they use it. And its a flaw in how Modes work in NWN, they always stop after combat, its quite annoying to have to turn on Power attack, expertise and rapid shot all the time

[Vaku]

Ha! Try a Matriarch. If you live long enough, you will L O L.

[Badelaire]

There is no actual rule stated that a light source prevents HiPS since light will always cast a shadow. Whack your settings to full and see how your character casts multiple shadows because of the proximity of their ligh tsource. One thing to mention though is if a player were to endlessly spam hips in combat like that, they'd have a warning and even possible removal of their shadow dancer template.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Elite vampires are monk/shadowdancers, so they have HiPS.

[dutchy]

Elite vampires are monk/shadowdancers, so they have HiPS.

awww thats mean allowing mosnters to have builds we cant have   *cries*

[HellsPanda]

Players can have monk/shadowdancers.... you can multiclass monk and paladin with PRCs, you need to know this stuff if your going CC

[Badelaire]

(You gotta be one to be CC)

[dutchy]

Players can have monk/shadowdancers.... you can multiclass monk and paladin with PRCs, you need to know this stuff if your going CC

am gonna say this once panda, and i hope you'l respect it.

just stop ok?  i know i am the last person you want to see on the CC team but if i am voted in i am voted in and i will do my best, you might not have any faith in my abilities but i do and so do others.

that i do not know everything, doesn't mean i can't learn, there is plenty to read up on and i will do that when it comes that far.

so it would be apreciated if you stopped the little punches below the belt and the statements i would make a bad CC. 


back on topic:

things that use hips ingame monster wise will use it allot  it is like the shadows and their casting darkness these are just  how the mechanics work asfar i know it cannot be fixed or adapted without adapting every monster in the game. (as its ia related)

[Crimson Shuriken]

Lol Dutchy I do not honestly think Panda actually has any issues with your potential in a CC role.. I think you read a different tone than was given. It seemed informative, not derisive.

[The Prophet of Misinformation]

That was unsatisfing in terms of fairness, because it exploits a mechanical flaw. My character was using improve expertise and since targeting was broken... he would get off that mode, become flat footed and then receive two or three attacks until I could finally target the "beach" again and return to improved expertise mode.

You are going to hate Sithicus.

[Ryltar/ Robert Archer]

beating hips aint too hard smack on true seeing (maybe even see invis works not sure) and have a defcent spot/listen my old ranger calson adams never have probs against these undead when he was buffed by friendly ezra clerics

[HellsPanda]

When did you loose your sense of humour, Dutchy?

[dutchy]

recently

[Purist]

have a defcent spot/listen my old ranger calson adams never have probs against these undead when he was buffed by friendly ezra clerics

I think I had true seeing/see invs on the time, but not all characters have ranks in spot/listen.... It's not about winning, but it's mechanically broken, it's not fair.

I'd appreciate if we could remain in topic here.

[BalorVale]

I agree, I think it's spammed too much, it's absolute abuse, If we can abuse this why not the Casting 20 times at once counterspell bug? When does it become O.K to abuse a mechanic? It's not even like they RP it or move through shadows, they stand in the same place but it pulls you from combat mode, which is purely mechanical and very obnoxious.

[airengale]

The thing about HIPS is that they can't do it within 10ft of light, I believe. And purist was bright. I assumed the elite vampiress was just becoming mist and reappearing or some-such. But if it's Hide in plane sight due to shadow dancing, then that was just abuse. She needed shadows, and she wasn't near any. I haven't had any problem like that on my other characters also, so. . .

It doesn't bother me.

Added:

As long as they are within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, shadowdancers can hide themselves from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind.

Purist may or may not have been bright, he'd have to confirm it, but regardless, the ability was being spammed. It may not be an official rule, but it certainly has a guide stated in the Prestige class resource and lore. This is why I also want daylight as a spell

[Badelaire]

Guys, I refer to my previous point that there is nothing stated in SD lore that says they can't HIPS in light. But bingo bango bongo I think BalorVale said enough there about the subject generically.

[CuddleGutz]

A few people are referring to abuse, but it's the built in AI here. If you know of a player abusing these abilities, however, we always encourage you to report it to a DM or the CC. And in no way, Balorvale, does this annoying situation with the game's AI or the HIPS system make using exploits acceptable. Ever. Two wrongs, and all that.

The dev team tries to adjust the AI and other systems where we can, but crying abuse or getting angry about it won't help us get to solutions any faster. If there's a way to make the experience better, we'll work at it. In some cases there are limits to what we can do and in no way do we intend to abuse systems or to hurt your experiences when playing.

[BalorVale]

A few people are referring to abuse, but it's the built in AI here. If you know of a player abusing these abilities, however, we always encourage you to report it to a DM or the CC. And in no way, Balorvale, does this annoying situation with the game's AI or the HIPS system make using exploits acceptable. Ever. Two wrongs, and all that.

The dev team tries to adjust the AI and other systems where we can, but crying abuse or getting angry about it won't help us get to solutions any faster. If there's a way to make the experience better, we'll work at it. In some cases there are limits to what we can do and in no way do we intend to abuse systems or to hurt your experiences when playing.

I was using this an an example to stop players who have acess to this feat from abusing it, there is nothing I can do about the AI, but the point is, is that the AI should have a cooldown for this ability, perhaps a ten second window before they can HiPS again. It was very frusterating watching Purist and our entire group get trolled by one Vampire elite fading out and back out and back, switching targets and for us no to be able to react at all because she is spamming the non-target ability of HiPS, which is causing the frustration.

I bring up the counterspell thing as another example of a mechanic that is not allowed to be used, this HiPS thing, although not as severe as the counterspell bug, is still a large concern in that it makes normal fights incorridgable for the people taking point, not only does it pull you out of your defense, but woe to you if you clicked to open your inventory to check something while they vanished, (I usually find my closest Health potion just in case), as they vanish and then punish you with tons of damage, it doesn't contribute to anything other then making the enemy obnoxious, and I highly HIGHLY discourage all players from EVER spamming this ability, you WILL get in trouble, don't do it.

I suggest a cooldown, that's my two-cents, I'm not sure if it can be done, but if it can I believe it should for just plain common sense.

[HellsPanda]

Well I have yet to see a Player actually abuse HiPs in the same way that monsters use it, most of them use it to fade away, then run, and come at you from another direction, this is actually how SDers are supposed to fight in PnP

[Purist]

Why can't the AI do something similar? I know it's a script, but seems more resonable to set a cooldown or program it so the AI can do that kind of "shadow dance".

[HellsPanda]

Because the AI is very limited, and it requires a fairly complex script to work properly that way.

[EberronBruce]

My suggestion which would be an easy fix to this situation.

Remove all shadowdancer levels from an NPC that is not controlled by a DM. Simple and effective. No more spamming in and out. Or disable hips from such NPCs.

[LackofCertainty]

My suggestion which would be an easy fix to this situation.

Remove all shadowdancer levels from an NPC that is not controlled by a DM. Simple and effective. No more spamming in and out. Or disable hips from such NPCs.

Part of the difficulty of the monster is that is has hips though.  I admit it can be annoying to fight hips monsters, but it does make fights with them play out different then the standard "watch character wail on it till it dies."

Also, hips monsters make dodge/dex ac less powerful.

Also hips monsters make detection skill more valuable. (at least in theory)

Also, I don't know if any of the ideas I suggest make up for how freaking annoying hips monster are.