Author Topic: Lycanthropy: infection?  (Read 9029 times)

Isu

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2006, 01:23:15 PM »
I would leave it uncontrolled for first. Some rare players with approval from the dm can still play their lycantrophs. But it if you leave it uncontrolled for first, everyone will really try to avoid wercreatures. It is absolute horror knowing that every second your character can turn into a (2min) uncontrolled beast. Not just for the others. The uncontrolled beast is quite like in fear-mode. And everyone knows how it is seeing his char in fear mode getting slaughtered by the monsters and not beeing able to do anything.

I would appriciate a script like this very much. It would make the wercreatures much more fearfull.

PS: Your feat idea sounds good and could be added later. E.g. in the standard feat you get a bonus to your control saving throw or you get a time amount of control (e.g. 30sec) to warn your buddies etc. :)

Isu Sethotep - Word of Set
Eric Leroux - phantom of the sewers
Taran - the good old student
Jeanne Marienne - faith in honor

Ravenous

  • Devourer
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3435
  • Hunger is eternal...
Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2006, 02:00:17 PM »
It all has to be in the RP, since you most people who are cursed dont realize it at first. But when they do they tend to try to get cured or learn to control it. So it would be nice to have a chance to control it after a few lvls.
But I love the idea of ones character going berserk and killing everyone. Though it would probably just happen in combat or other stressing situations.

Werewolves are the scariest "movie" monsters, at least I thought so when I was a kid.. They are still scary :wink: ... Love em...

PS: I´m utterly signing up for any chance at playing a true lycanthrope and doing nasty things to people, like cursing them :twisted:  
Always wanted to play one some time...

Sig by Garison

Isu

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2006, 02:32:04 PM »
You can control it indirectly by spending points to your CON or fortitude saves when you level. :)

Isu Sethotep - Word of Set
Eric Leroux - phantom of the sewers
Taran - the good old student
Jeanne Marienne - faith in honor

Ravenous

  • Devourer
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3435
  • Hunger is eternal...
Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2006, 03:04:22 PM »
That wont help much... It´s way to slow to reflect any learned control :wink:
It should be slow, but not that slow. Most classes dont have that many skill points to spare anyway..
I´m sure the Devs figure something nice and balanced out.

Sig by Garison

Hypatia

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2021, 04:05:35 AM »
I really like this idea. One way it could be implemented somewhat easily is that if the disease isn’t cured, you die and go to the near ethreal, meanwhile a werewolf spawns with your corpse in its inventory... a bit like how raising can go wrong and turn you to a zombie. It would be very cool if you didn’t know you were diseases a “examine object” could be used by someone with enough heal skill to notice your’e sick. (Infact all diseases should work that way).

Kiyosa

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
  • Tainted Dove
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2021, 05:12:22 AM »
Speaking of zombies, I was so confused to see this thread being raised from the dead 15 years later...

PrimetheGrime

  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2021, 06:04:47 AM »
I really like this idea. One way it could be implemented somewhat easily is that if the disease isn’t cured, you die and go to the near ethreal, meanwhile a werewolf spawns with your corpse in its inventory... a bit like how raising can go wrong and turn you to a zombie. It would be very cool if you didn’t know you were diseases a “examine object” could be used by someone with enough heal skill to notice your’e sick. (Infact all diseases should work that way).

So the main issue with this is that lycanthropy, if not cured is closure territory either from a 6 month period of a MPC, or a near certain closure. It's why I imagine this was never implemented. It wouldn't make much sense to have a werewolf spawn on you, have your allies kill it then raise you, y'know?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 06:06:44 AM by PrimetheGrime »

Profezzor_Darke

  • Theatre de la Cathedrale
  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • It's ya boi: Xel! [applause]
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2021, 08:59:31 AM »
As per D&D Rules will Lycanthropy only transmitted with a bite attack. This is there that the DM can keep control of who will be in infected in the party and for the werebeasts to control themselves who will be infected. The lycanthropes of Barovia for example are usually under Strahd's control (who, in most iterations likes to toy with adventurers in his free time), so one could see that they have got the order not to spread their infection.

A good example for how Lycanthropes deliberately hold back on their bites (they even must be in their hybrid form, so knowing of their infection and willing to spread it) is how wereravens will go to great extent to never use their bite in battle as they are controlling very tightly who may become a wereraven.

So we could say that Lycanthropes usually avoid adding randos to their pack and that if a PC becomes a Lycanthrope the infection was deliberate and no accident.

"[...] being cool is never a waste"

Famous Seamus

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2021, 10:54:01 PM »
Just thinking on this and taking a shot in the dark here:

Instead of making it possible for PCs to actually become lycanthropes via fighting lycanthrope mobs (which would definitely up the mobs' threat level but also be incredibly inconvenient), would it be possible to give lycanthropes a chance of transmitting a disease effect, like some mobs do, when they strike their target? It might be a sort of "middle ground" that's a nod to lycanthropy without the full mechanical inconvenience of representing it, and it would increase lycanthropes' threat/nuisance level. It also may give characters more pause before they dive headlong into a pack, even at higher levels, and it could make the lycanthropes in Vallaki and the outskirts a more tangible menace.

EDIT: Updated the first line in the main paragraph to clarify that I was speaking about lycanthrope mobs and not (A)MPCs. I never intended to make it sound as though I don't support were-(A)MPCs. They're great and should totally continue.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 12:55:33 AM by Famous Seamus »


Maverick

  • The Underworld
  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • The Hanged Man
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2021, 10:57:45 PM »
Just thinking on this and taking a shot in the dark here:

Instead of making it possible for PCs to actually become lycanthropes via fighting lycanthrope mobs (which would definitely up the mobs' threat level but also be incredibly inconvenient), would it be possible to give lycanthropes a chance of transmitting a disease effect, like some mobs do, when they strike their target? It might be a sort of "middle ground" that's a nod to lycanthropy without the full mechanical inconvenience of representing it, and it would increase lycanthropes' threat/nuisance level. It also may give characters more pause before they dive headlong into a pack, even at higher levels, and it could make the lycanthropes in Vallaki and the outskirts a more tangible menace.

EDIT: Updated the first line in the main paragraph to clarify that I was speaking about lycanthrope mobs and not (A)MPCs. I never intended to make it sound as though I don't support were-(A)MPCs. They're great and should totally continue.

It would be nice to see a curse-like effect added to a player. It ould give the Remove Curse spell more use.

EDIT: Wow this post got necromanced
« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 10:59:42 PM by Maverick »
Active Characters: Lambert Garnier, Andrei Pavelescu
Inactive Characters: Anton Dimski, Conrad Burkhart

hugolino

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 550
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2021, 01:03:06 AM »
If the goal is to put fear into facing lycanthropes, simply have lycanthropes have a tiny chance of transmitting the half-Vistani feat Moon Madness on a victim. Fortitude save. No cure if the victim fails the save.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 01:07:18 AM by hugolino »

Maverick

  • The Underworld
  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • The Hanged Man
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2021, 10:16:55 AM »
If the goal is to put fear into facing lycanthropes, simply have lycanthropes have a tiny chance of transmitting the half-Vistani feat Moon Madness on a victim. Fortitude save. No cure if the victim fails the save.

I feel that's a little extreme. The ideas nice but it should still have a save of somekind. Maybe an alchemical mixture of rare herbs and wolvesbane? Or a high their restoration spell.
Active Characters: Lambert Garnier, Andrei Pavelescu
Inactive Characters: Anton Dimski, Conrad Burkhart

Hypatia

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2021, 01:14:16 AM »
All we have to do is draw a distinction between freewilled lycan MPCs and the mindless spawn that would appear if the disease progressed far enough to kill you and spawn a werewolf with your badly impaired corpse in its inventory. While MPCs can’t be raised, you would be able too if you die from this “lesser” form. I’d submit “wights” and “vampire spawn” should also have this function.

even if it’s not source persay, it would still make this more fun and create danger. Even better is if you don’t know your diseased.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 01:15:54 AM by Hypatia »

Alan Hunter

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 588
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2021, 11:01:49 AM »
As per D&D Rules will Lycanthropy only transmitted with a bite attack. This is there that the DM can keep control of who will be in infected in the party and for the werebeasts to control themselves who will be infected. The lycanthropes of Barovia for example are usually under Strahd's control (who, in most iterations likes to toy with adventurers in his free time), so one could see that they have got the order not to spread their infection.

A good example for how Lycanthropes deliberately hold back on their bites (they even must be in their hybrid form, so knowing of their infection and willing to spread it) is how wereravens will go to great extent to never use their bite in battle as they are controlling very tightly who may become a wereraven.

So we could say that Lycanthropes usually avoid adding randos to their pack and that if a PC becomes a Lycanthrope the infection was deliberate and no accident.

Given Whitewolfs addition consider their theology as Garo do not intentionally spread the infection and generally those feral do. Those that fall to the madness are nothing more than Evil Garou in almost lost control or have fallen to the Beast amd there fore no control. 

Regardless it can be well story driven.  And I see the views of both sides.  One you have people who would purposefully try to become infected to have a chance to be a MPC rather lwtting it bw request or chance. And the other you have a legit roleplay potential that offers a narrative development if taken responsibly.

Sadly we seen how some these auggestions and debates go. So I don't habe confidence we'll handle this well. As a former DM from servers such a feat can be rather difficult to maintain. I know th3 same story od not putting more on Dms but management and quality control is not an easy task.

So I offer this as a medium and suggestion.  We do not possess Taint scores in this Ravenloft game. But, we do permit Dark Power Checks. First example would be to augment the transmissible race to have a low % on contact with a viable target to drop a plot token (Curse) upon success of transmit. X amount of Curse causes minor Symptom IE lunatio madness. (Non-remove as per feats.) At tgis early stage a player should be reponsible to roleplay this out in game and on forum. Dm checks or finds roleplay, checks play inventory for X amount of (Curse) Tokens., makes player perform dark power check. Succeds tokens are removed but Lunatio remains as side effect. And/or Remove Curse is scripted to remove token or by Dm viewing. If failed the target player aquires a Dark Power fail and resumes Curse Rp. If like most CC requests this would give premise to consider a MPC request which then falls on the CC to advise leaving Dm involvement minimal less target player resumes rp recieving DP Checks.

This is just a make shift example. I never experience what happens after so many DP Checks but this would fit along our system. Even with out the token mechanic this can still be roleplayed with a CC request/suggestion.  The token Curse system would make it so those things transmissable would apply a further sense of concern some players may or may not enjoy.  Just bare in mind with some resources and addition to D&D and Whitewolf inclusion most of these creatures are free willed and are aware od their curse and would not spread it out of a shred of humanity, responaibility, or simply do not want the burden of another in their midst. For those with no control I feel it is more story driven by a DM or Storyteller as a High Risk event. Given the rules we cannot rp or control the actions of NPCs, Monsties included, it would be a potential rule break as well. Though I don't totally agree it would l. On the grounds of the rules in place and the mechanics viable still be best to consider the ask CC/DM option.

Then again a player could pull a Voracious and build a story to LYCAN Curse via Lunatio. It be up to the player to provide solid rp with a party, get CC involved and a Dms interest which isnt most likely but a possibility.

Right hope this helps in some way.

Toodles.
"For Evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

PrimetheGrime

  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2021, 08:42:21 PM »

So I offer this as a medium and suggestion.  We do not possess Taint scores in this Ravenloft game. But, we do permit Dark Power Checks. First example would be to augment the transmissible race to have a low % on contact with a viable target to drop a plot token (Curse) upon success of transmit. X amount of Curse causes minor Symptom IE lunatio madness. (Non-remove as per feats.) At tgis early stage a player should be reponsible to roleplay this out in game and on forum. Dm checks or finds roleplay, checks play inventory for X amount of (Curse) Tokens., makes player perform dark power check. Succeds tokens are removed but Lunatio remains as side effect. And/or Remove Curse is scripted to remove token or by Dm viewing. If failed the target player aquires a Dark Power fail and resumes Curse Rp. If like most CC requests this would give premise to consider a MPC request which then falls on the CC to advise leaving Dm involvement minimal less target player resumes rp recieving DP Checks.

This is just a make shift example. I never experience what happens after so many DP Checks but this would fit along our system. Even with out the token mechanic this can still be roleplayed with a CC request/suggestion.  The token Curse system would make it so those things transmissable would apply a further sense of concern some players may or may not enjoy.  Just bare in mind with some resources and addition to D&D and Whitewolf inclusion most of these creatures are free willed and are aware od their curse and would not spread it out of a shred of humanity, responaibility, or simply do not want the burden of another in their midst. For those with no control I feel it is more story driven by a DM or Storyteller as a High Risk event. Given the rules we cannot rp or control the actions of NPCs, Monsties included, it would be a potential rule break as well. Though I don't totally agree it would l. On the grounds of the rules in place and the mechanics viable still be best to consider the ask CC/DM option.

Then again a player could pull a Voracious and build a story to LYCAN Curse via Lunatio. It be up to the player to provide solid rp with a party, get CC involved and a Dms interest which isnt most likely but a possibility.

Right hope this helps in some way.

Toodles.

I'm certain any DP checks would need to be done by DMs and reason being is that the checks are synonymous with recieving a stat increase/decrease in the form of a 'gift'. Furthermore, the more DPs you have the closer you are to closure. It would make management of DP's even more of a hassle than I imagine it already is. If there was to be any change, I suppose a curse wouldn't be too hard to add, but then you have the issue of it making all of the current dungeons/areas with werewolves that much more of a slog for people to get into. I think overrall it would hinder the experience rather than increase it.

Alan Hunter

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 588
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2021, 12:17:30 PM »

So I offer this as a medium and suggestion.  We do not possess Taint scores in this Ravenloft game. But, we do permit Dark Power Checks. First example would be to augment the transmissible race to have a low % on contact with a viable target to drop a plot token (Curse) upon success of transmit. X amount of Curse causes minor Symptom IE lunatio madness. (Non-remove as per feats.) At tgis early stage a player should be reponsible to roleplay this out in game and on forum. Dm checks or finds roleplay, checks play inventory for X amount of (Curse) Tokens., makes player perform dark power check. Succeds tokens are removed but Lunatio remains as side effect. And/or Remove Curse is scripted to remove token or by Dm viewing. If failed the target player aquires a Dark Power fail and resumes Curse Rp. If like most CC requests this would give premise to consider a MPC request which then falls on the CC to advise leaving Dm involvement minimal less target player resumes rp recieving DP Checks.

This is just a make shift example. I never experience what happens after so many DP Checks but this would fit along our system. Even with out the token mechanic this can still be roleplayed with a CC request/suggestion.  The token Curse system would make it so those things transmissable would apply a further sense of concern some players may or may not enjoy.  Just bare in mind with some resources and addition to D&D and Whitewolf inclusion most of these creatures are free willed and are aware od their curse and would not spread it out of a shred of humanity, responaibility, or simply do not want the burden of another in their midst. For those with no control I feel it is more story driven by a DM or Storyteller as a High Risk event. Given the rules we cannot rp or control the actions of NPCs, Monsties included, it would be a potential rule break as well. Though I don't totally agree it would l. On the grounds of the rules in place and the mechanics viable still be best to consider the ask CC/DM option.

Then again a player could pull a Voracious and build a story to LYCAN Curse via Lunatio. It be up to the player to provide solid rp with a party, get CC involved and a Dms interest which isnt most likely but a possibility.

Right hope this helps in some way.

Toodles.

I'm certain any DP checks would need to be done by DMs and reason being is that the checks are synonymous with recieving a stat increase/decrease in the form of a 'gift'. Furthermore, the more DPs you have the closer you are to closure. It would make management of DP's even more of a hassle than I imagine it already is. If there was to be any change, I suppose a curse wouldn't be too hard to add, but then you have the issue of it making all of the current dungeons/areas with werewolves that much more of a slog for people to get into. I think overrall it would hinder the experience rather than increase it.

As expected. Dm are in control of such events amd checks. In my time of DP checks with out reveal I dont believe I ever recieved a gift  or attribute change but thats my experience. And yes the more DP thr closer you are to closure some have even gone to closure with great goals or lesser results hence the risk of aquiring DP or doing something to draw DP checks.

I don't see where it would be a hassle if the affliction is at such a low % that it be rare for so many unless purposefully going for the affliction or roleplaing themself into the conatant danger of it all.
How are you certain it would make managment more difficult if we barely know how DPs are handled Dm side? Its not like we are aware of DP checks let alone the rarity of Dm involvement for some folks. So I can't really agree of it being a hinderance as it requires changing a script to a few models and a party just taking more preperation such as making the Spell Protection from Curse far bit more useful and Remove Curse as well. But, its just my opinion a suggestion for the topic.
"For Evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

Zyemeth

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2021, 06:34:15 AM »
If fear of lycans is the issue it can easily be fixed by removing the Large Humanoid Wolf varieties entirely that a level 4 can kill. Have only the Brutish, Garou, and Monstrous exist. In the actual Wolf-den make them all lowlands and mountain garou since raiding a wolfden should be more threatening that running into stragglers. No matter what the variety though it doesn't get the level 15+ chars standing outside in Vallaki at night go away and that's generally the biggest issue. You shouldn't fear a standard lycanthrope at that level anyway. You should be dealing with much bigger DnD threats.

The garou varieties should make you feel in danger till about level 9 or 10 if you don't have any wards active and that's generally about the time you should be moving on from the Vallaki area.

PrimetheGrime

  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2021, 05:08:10 AM »
If fear of lycans is the issue it can easily be fixed by removing the Large Humanoid Wolf varieties entirely that a level 4 can kill. Have only the Brutish, Garou, and Monstrous exist. In the actual Wolf-den make them all lowlands and mountain garou since raiding a wolfden should be more threatening that running into stragglers. No matter what the variety though it doesn't get the level 15+ chars standing outside in Vallaki at night go away and that's generally the biggest issue. You shouldn't fear a standard lycanthrope at that level anyway. You should be dealing with much bigger DnD threats.

The garou varieties should make you feel in danger till about level 9 or 10 if you don't have any wards active and that's generally about the time you should be moving on from the Vallaki area.

The spawns within the wolf cave and around Vallaki aren't meant to be overly strong. Vallaki is still very much a low level, 1-12 zone. Worgs are already pesky to new players and low levels when they wander onto the roads and you come across plenty of downed or corpsed individuals this way. What needs to occur is that the players as a whole need to respect the servers theme/setting and head inside when old night comes a knocking. The dms and devs can add any number of increased cr enemies, but unless player mindset changes, it will just be seen as another tough npc that will drop great xp or that killing a freshly spawned pack of tough enemies can lead to a dm plot. Changing your viewpoint on the lycanthropes will do wonders for server overall vibe, trust me.

SardineTheAncestor

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1149
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2021, 04:43:23 PM »
It's important to note that no matter how strong an enemy is, people will want to fight it, or even just stand around waiting for that enemy to appear if the potential is there to see it attack someone else. It can give no loot, no experience, people will still be seen throwing themselves at it no matter how many resurrections it takes. They won't stop doing it without a particular incentive otherwise.

Death

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: Lycanthropy: infection?
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2021, 09:09:30 AM »
Hold on... *Checks date of the OP*  :shock: