Player-owned Tavern & store

[Sewerfish]

I  tried (am still trying I guess) to do the tavern thing .. but it kinda failed before it even got started.

This Thread is for Posting your ideas about how we can use the Gaping Wound.

I am keen to begin by making the top floor a place an alternative place for PCs to hang out (vs the Sanctuary or Lady's Rest) with ample dive bar and shady RP. Like that tavern in Star Wars, Mos Eisley Cantina, all sorts would mix there but we wouldn't have the bodies on Pikes that the Drain has. 
We won't pay people who work there. Instead they can make money by selling drinks, gambling, entertaining, holding events like knife fights, and what ever else creativity allows. Its not about making money, its about establishing an RP hub with a seedy vibe.

Possible positions include

Manager Finds people to do other jobs, unlocks doors. Works to craft the atmosphere of the bar. Makes money by skimming profits.
Bar Tender Stock up on booze from other establishments and sell them in ours. Stand behind bar
Serving Lass Wander around trying to sell drinks
Bard/Story Teller/Singer/dancers Amuse patrons with jokes, stories, other entertainment. Would really love to see a bard PC who can come up with amusing stories about and poking fun at other PCs in the game.
Black Market Sales Find poison, drugs, traps, guns, ect, buy and sell them.
Dealers Think up some games and play them

I'd like to post a thread in the rumors forums saying something like "Various nefarious individuals have been seen lingering around the old Vallaki Slum's dive bar, the Gaping Wound. If rumors be true, the natty lads and lasses are looking for serving wenches, bouncer brutes, dice men, and bards to make the dust rise and shadows dance in the old tavern."

My PC still has a key and usage rights so if someone has a lot of motivation to make this happen and an appropriate PC (new PCs fine) then let me know.

[EberronBruce]

Another idea which could be far more simple to implement. Is to have setable weapon racks, armor stands, and counters. So a merchant can have these and set them up and put his wares on them. Then at the end of the day, collapse them. You could set up a permanent stalls in different places much like the market place that will remain empty until a character use it. Like one in Degannwy in the far right corner from the entrance. One in the outskirts. Ect. They will be just like the stalls of the market place. Couple that with the setable stands, they can work nice for merchant pcs.

And yes, the vardos market is gone under. It used to be very stable. It can be hard to find smiths and gear for characters. Particularly to archers for arrows with punch.

[monsinyana]

Even getting beyond the IC considerations (Strahd owns everything in Barovia) and cliques, there's also the issue of devoting module resources for a personal project, and what to do if that person up and vanishes.

you loose it if you dont keep the rent up

ive seen this automated to good effect. on this server included

[Badelaire]

And yes, the vardos market is gone under. It used to be very stable.  

As I keep stating, the direction of the faction is being more geared to adventure and intrigue over supplying people with entitled beliefs that's all the faction should be doing. It's a device for story and plotting, not Ravenloft's very own e-bay. Plenty of independant players are already going the merchant route and are doing a good job of it. Add that to the fact both current RVT merchants are on military service and the desire to use services as the focal point of RVT dealings and you won't see reams of equip lying all over the place for sale in the outskirts.

[monsinyana]

i also dont like that the guards cant search our inventories like they can on arabel

you want players to live and be in fear of the guarda? regardless of level? give them the ability to take the phat l00t away

keeps power levels low too

the server is actually 'too nice'

As a former constant player of CoA (as you recall Monsinyana, I turned the ailing Iron Wings faction into a rather big noise at the time purely on player to player interactions), I found the power the gaurd players got ridiculous and constantly abused. One could come up to you see your entire inventory on a "routine search" then decide to confiscate that nice item you RP'd and quested your butt off for themselves on no pretext other than they wanted it and there was little you could do about it. Not to mention the horrid abuse of the capture wand system where they just use it on you and you appear in a cell without much hope of ever getting out, coupled with the fact the outcomes of trials tended to be largely decided beforehand which meant perma.

The server is moderate and fair. "Nice" keeps players coming back over and over.

CoA really did have a ravenloft-eque soul crushing atmosphere that turned all your dreams to dust

my personal theory was the city (before the civil war) was actually evil and they just portrayed it as good

i never heard of guards taking players special loot but there were some real crappy instances, especially since all your stuff dropped on player death

the worst i witnessed was when Dateel died fighting the demon in the market and all the other players turned from the fighting to loot 'the hero' and run off with all his special gear- which then resulted in the player perming his character since it was years of hard work gone in an instant


i never knew the trials were per-determined.. i thought the outcomes were based on the evidence and testimonials given at the actual trial
thats bogus


i thought they changed the wands to shackles that tugged you along on auto follow and you could make strength checks to break away?

(as you recall Monsinyana, I turned the ailing Iron Wings faction into a rather big noise at the time purely on player to player interactions)

i had no idea you were Ali! hi ali! [waves]

[Badelaire]

(as you recall Monsinyana, I turned the ailing Iron Wings faction into a rather big noise at the time purely on player to player interactions)

i had no idea you were Ali! hi ali! [waves]

Uh no, I took it off her hands when she got banned <.< I played Galm.

[monsinyana]

The server is moderate and fair. "Nice" keeps players coming back over and over.

it is .. this server is fun where coa pushes it too far into making you feel like everything you do is an episode of futility


i only suggested the stores and the player run tavern because those things always impressed me at how much rp was created with those two systems with no dm involvement whatsoever.


i wasnt aware we have such an opportunity with the Gaping Wound

i also miss the pit fights that used to be held at tegans

[monsinyana]

My PC still has a key and usage rights so if someone has a lot of motivation to make this happen and an appropriate PC (new PCs fine) then let me know.

who is your pc to find in game?

[Badelaire]

(as you recall Monsinyana, I turned the ailing Iron Wings faction into a rather big noise at the time purely on player to player interactions)

i had no idea you were Ali! hi ali! [waves]

Uh no, I took it off her hands when she got banned <.< I played Galm.

oh. i never heard of the Iron Wings doing anything after Ali was banned. i dont know who Galm is/was.

i'm not aware. sorry

Caden Mirneau Galm -_- Met Shade and her lover thingy the Maskarran Demarchess countless times there was that entire plotline where they kept-urgh I give up

There are always opportunities abound, quite often player notices can be missed on the forums due to the high traffic of posts. It's always a good idea to check the factions threads now and then to see what's current. The Gaping Wound thing was set up completely through player to player and would be pretty much entirely player-run if it can gain the interest.

[monsinyana]

removed and sent to Badelaire as a PM

(was off topic)

[Badelaire]

For those interested in the Canteena Gaping Wound idea, should send a polite PM to Sewerfish here on the forums and not me about the details, I've no import in the set up beyond renting the place out ICly. Strictly his show with some very, very nosey neighbours.

[LawfulJoe]

The Main thing I do not like about the Vending machine approach to merchants is the loss of interaction. This is not a server of convenience, this is an RP server, and Haggling for items is part of that RP. You put your coins in and push the silver steel sword botton just lacks the RP element.

Also, How does a garda shake down a vending machine selling items of obvious Varja. If it glows, sparkles or has fire on it, it should not be on display or garda will either confiscate it or ask you once politiely to put them away and fine you for disturbing the peace, as it is well known that weapons of Varja attract demons and that scares the locals, and the garda as well.

Thieves, stealing crap is what they do, how can a thief attempt to swipe a sword or potion if it is locked up in a convenient conversation script.

I have no problem with a market area for PCs to sell their wares,  such as I mentioned before in the basement of the Lady's Rest, but keep it personal.

[Mcskinns]

The Main thing I do not like about the Vending machine approach to merchants is the loss of interaction. This is not a server of convenience, this is an RP server, and Haggling for items is part of that RP. You put your coins in and push the silver steel sword botton just lacks the RP element.

Also, How does a garda shake down a vending machine selling items of obvious Varja. If it glows, sparkles or has fire on it, it should not be on display or garda will either confiscate it or ask you once politiely to put them away and fine you for disturbing the peace, as it is well known that weapons of Varja attract demons and that scares the locals, and the garda as well.

Thieves, stealing crap is what they do, how can a thief attempt to swipe a sword or potion if it is locked up in a convenient conversation script.

I have no problem with a market area for PCs to sell their wares,  such as I mentioned before in the basement of the Lady's Rest, but keep it personal.

We have standard NWN shops in game, which is no different than a PC controlled one via a "vending Machine"  you cannot simply walk into the vistani mist camp and walk off with items from the shop, nor can you bargain beyond the initial roll of appraise.  There is zero PC interaction yet everyone and their mother goes there to vendor trash so they can aquire more coins than other locations often permit.  I do prefer to make my sales and purchases from PC run shops when its viable, but there are times the same item can be bought elsewhere cheaper than the PC shop is asking for it.  Provided someone else has sold it there prior. 

I look forward to the day some high appraise PC sets up shop buying junk items in the outskirts for about what they can be sold for to the local merchants in the module, and then transports them and makes the sale for a little profit elsewhere.  It would take a lot of knowledge of what sells for what to vendors, and having a long list of things on hand to know what you should offer to pay for them.  I might one day do such myself, but to be honest, I don't imagine it will go very far if you don't already have a few tens-of-thousands of coin in the bank to be able to dole out the funds

*shrugs*  I guess I don't mind "vendor" set ups so much, because you can always hunt down a merchant somewhere if you want to haggle for a similar item.

[dutchy]

...does vallaki have indoor markets? (except the vardo) 

if so and if possible couldnt we make a building and just place such stalls in there? 
ingame we could let the guards record the vendors that use it and end of the month or somthing they collect (needs some fine tuning)
just some placeable stalls ive seen them.

that would make ppl have an actual player market (and a market feel)  instead of standing in the outskirts.

it shouldnt be hard right?  just an added building with enough room for a few set stalls that could be used by those that sell weapons,potions and god knows what else.

[monsinyana]

CoA had something like that. this one merchant sold things and you could as about his 'special merchandise'

there was a locked door to a backroom and in that room was a chest. anything the possessor the key put in that chest was sold by the npc out front under the 'special merchandise'


i do personally like that more then vending machines where no one is around

[Mcskinns]

...does vallaki have indoor markets? (except the vardo) 

if so and if possible couldnt we make a building and just place such stalls in there? 
ingame we could let the guards record the vendors that use it and end of the month or somthing they collect (needs some fine tuning)
just some placeable stalls ive seen them.

that would make ppl have an actual player market (and a market feel)  instead of standing in the outskirts.

it shouldnt be hard right?  just an added building with enough room for a few set stalls that could be used by those that sell weapons,potions and god knows what else.

the doing isn't hard if its a simple area to be made, but the deciding if it is too far from cannon for something to exist, if it'll provide the server with something meaningful or if it will just be another area that becomes stale and unused in the long haul.  I think we have brought up the idea, the DM's and Dev's can decide if it is a functional choice for the setting/server and if so, in what ways they want to include it and where.   As always I think these suggestions are helpful so long as we do not harp over and over trying to push for them to be included.  Lets let the team decide, and hopefully share with us the decision and reasons they have for such so we can move on without turning this into a 20 page thread of pros and cons.

[Badelaire]

I've been toying with the idea of making the RVT services building available as a trading closter. From an IC perspective it allows the faction some measure of unwitting control and profit (because trust me, the rent would be extortionate and price out independant merchants) from other groups seeking to turn coin from sales but also make what is a seldom used building more of a thriving merchant hub and really push the "merchant front" aspect of the RVT ahead. Naturally conditions would apply and the logistics and feasibility of the notion worked out both IC and OOC but I always did want to see more intrigue and plotting going on in services. That place would be perfect for round table discussions (yus, it has a big round table with a stocked bar next to it!) on matters of trade and commerce. May even give rise to a new economic block within Barovia to challenge more powerful canon groups throughout the core.......HINT!

[Amon-Si]

I've been toying with the idea of making the RVT services building available as a trading closter.

Eliza ran the vardo services building for a while... then she was strangled to death for being too dangerous lol ;D

[Badelaire]

I've been toying with the idea of making the RVT services building available as a trading closter.

Eliza ran the vardo services building for a while... then she was strangled to death for being too dangerous lol ;D

I actually recall her now! Never even knew that happened but then I was a lowly little member back then.

[herkles]

@badelaire: that is a great idea actually

One thing I thought is that there could be some spare merchant stalls in the market district for people to use. though this does remind me that the DMs have said in the past vallaki is too large, and for example it shouldn't have the sewers so perhaps a redo of vallaki should be in the future?

I am also in favor of PCs having jobs and power at the various institutes and places around town, weather in the port or in vallaki. Working at the Broken bell, the cafes in the port and so on could be fun for rp. So more opprotunity for that should be available

[dutchy]

rvt building could be expended from the inside a little then maybe i dunno maybe more counters?


as far my idea went  was just that  no clue if it was really cannon thats why i asked if it was dooable.


weird thing is the village has an actual area thats huge in size and excellent for markets but the problem is the distance and population.

[Dread]

Mesdames et messeurs,

Perhaps you should seek a rise in social mobility in a place that isn't xenophobic?

~ Sincérement,
      Dementlieu

[Kendric98]

Mesdames et messeurs,

Perhaps you should seek a rise in social mobility in a place that isn't xenophobic?

~ Sincérement,
      Dementlieu

Same problem as the village but even farther. Now if there was a permanent mistway from bald to port it would be doable.

[Merrien]

In a few market sites (some indoor, some outdoor) around Amia (just to give another server example, since it's a successful market scripty thing) there are stalls with clickable tables and/or chests and that opens up a convo/scripting system.

A merchant basically "places" his/her stuff in there, but it isn't the item in actuality, it's just a copy of it visually with its stats available on examine, as in any shop, so no one is actually able to steal it (if you wanted to RP that, most folks are up for some rolling to see if it is successfully done, but it can't be trolled OOCly is the point). 

You look over the inventory, ask the merchant, "hey how much is X?" --commence IC haggling, etc.-- and if agreed upon, you do a trade and the item which is still actually physically in the merchant's inventory, gets exchanged with gold or trade just like you'd do otherwise.  It keeps people from having to leave items all over the ground, which, unless I'm mistaken (possible), contributes to lag, and is just a cleaner way of doing it.  There's no vending machine for it.  You have to RP as a merchant or with the merchant to get the stuff.  It's just a mechanical way of accomplishing the goal.  It's not rented, although I'm sure a fee could be implemented (a higher fee for various ratings is even possible of course, or blocking certain ones/races, as might suit a specific market area).

Also the shops disappear when you log off or close the shop, reopening the stall for someone else's use, so it's not so much a matter of ownership.

As for the tavern stuff, I really enjoyed my barmaid in the Bell; if interested in working at the existing NPC run things, definitely PM a DM about it.  Definitely worth your trouble.  I may PM about the player run one-- I have limited play time, but that kind of stuff is fun and always tends to lend itself to good RP.

[Misted_Horror]

Here's the thing though, merchants seem to want half the perks without trouble, I haven't seen a single merchant that sells in the Outskirts, lugging along his 1k plus in weight of items around when he dumps it on the floor. The closest I have seen, would have been Griswold, carrying around his chest, with an actually banner for the company. That in my eyes is immersion and is what we need. IC opportunities pop up -everywhere- it's just many people don't try and act on it. Also, player owned Tavern and store.. there is one reason factions are good to join on this server, immersion and perks. Vardo has job security of a decent degree and as such, has done most of the groundwork needed. WK has their own building, people could approach the leader, see if the House could be used in the "Kitchen" room, as a random assortment of boxes and stock, there is also the Drain for those who want to do business, and the rules of thievery and fighting are surprisingly tight, meaning your wares are safe, until you step out of the Drain with them.

There's plenty of places to make a mark, there are abandoned houses, churches, etc all over the place that can be used as an aspiring player-factions shop, the only problem is that people don't seemingly go for it. Sorry if some of this doesn't make sense but I am typing it in a hurry, what I'm trying to get across is, scour the server for neat places you can use, talk with a DM or two, find out things about the place IC, raise substantial coin, or IC info in exchange for keeping it safe, etc.