Influence skill affecting OCR

[Seniies]

For a test I made a half orc from eberron with the skill he ended up with a OCR of 14.
He wasn't attacked by the natives. Is this intentional?
When noticed by a pc he quickly switched to his garda alt to fix this issue via faction his faction tool.

So why does it effect ocr?

[Ophie Kitty]

If your a big ugly orc, Its less likely influence is one of your skills.

And likewise, not everyone with higher OCR looks hideous.

[Seniies]

He was a paladin and the question stands.

[herkles]

Does not charisma also help with OCR?

[APorg]

Influence covers both Diplomacy and Bluff; in that context it would be useful both for convincing people you mean no harm, and deceiving people to think the same.

I guess the real issue is that caliban OCR is set too low perhaps?

[Jay]

It's a case of "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
While a significantly charismatic Caliban/Half-Orc could be ignored simply because he's simply *so* influential that people go "yes we hate Claiban, but that one doesn't look so bad." Having him walk down the street waving cheerily at NPC Garda is just showing disrespect to the setting, and eventually people will take offense to that.

[Dread]

In my eyes, a half-orc/caliban with OCR that is under the threshold that would lead to him or her being attacked (16) would seem like a leper to most people. They don't look as bad as a womb-freak would, but Iadul help you if you go near it, because you'll likely catch the pox.

[Seniies]

well its a good thing i never waved to a npc garda then isnt it?

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

"Caliban" isn't a certain genus but a general term for people deformed somehow to seem wicked. In terms of OCR, they are intentionally on the fence in the sense that some may be tolerated even if not liked. A high influence score helps there.

It's a case of "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
While a significantly charismatic Caliban/Half-Orc could be ignored simply because he's simply *so* influential that people go "yes we hate Claiban, but that one doesn't look so bad." Having him walk down the street waving cheerily at NPC Garda is just showing disrespect to the setting, and eventually people will take offense to that.

Indeed, and also why the guards have the special ability to flag people as outcasts which can be used in such cases.

[Vespertilio]

It's a case of "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
While a significantly charismatic Caliban/Half-Orc could be ignored simply because he's simply *so* influential that people go "yes we hate Claiban, but that one doesn't look so bad." Having him walk down the street waving cheerily at NPC Garda is just showing disrespect to the setting, and eventually people will take offense to that.

Perhaps this isn't just an issue for half-orc pc's OCR being too low but also subraces such as Tiefling, Drow and any other subraces such as assimir. Just because a character might have a high charisma (which doesn't necessarily translate to being attractive to npcs and pcs alike.) I've seen many examples of non caliban/half-orc subraces or pcs with OCR who put skill points in influence that resulted in npcs treating them friendly because this is how the skills influence OCR mechanically.  One could argue that a Drow sitting in the lady's rest, or a Tiefling in the blue water, is a case of mechanically can but icly shouldn't be able to?  Also is it intentional that focusing on certain skills/stats can lower OCR to the degree that outcast characters can wander freely in certain areas such as Vallaki?

 If it's good and appropriate to flag a pc as outcast to counter the mechanics, wouldn't it also be appropriate to flag all instances of such characters that enter Vallaki as unmolested outcasts as 'detrimental to the setting'?  If this is a good idea, why even have an OCR low enough to be affected by skill selection and stats such as charisma if to be able to do such is seen as detrimental overall to the setting? Why not just raise the OCR for all outcast subraces to a degree that influence won't affect it? 

[HellsPanda]

Because numbers need to be tweaked after the change that made it easier to get a low OCR?

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

If it's good and appropriate to flag a pc as outcast to counter the mechanics, wouldn't it also be appropriate to flag all instances of such characters that enter Vallaki as unmolested outcasts as 'detrimental to the setting'?

That is appropriate too. The ability of course somes with a responsibility, but I don't think anyone have abused it yet. I've never even heard a complaint about it.

If this is a good idea, why even have an OCR low enough to be affected by skill selection and stats such as charisma if to be able to do such is seen as detrimental overall to the setting? Why not just raise the OCR for all outcast subraces to a degree that influence won't affect it? 

Because most of the time, it should allow people with high influence to move through settlements without being attacked, although still treated as an outsider. It's just because the systems are unable to take everything into account that DMs and guard PCs can apply modifiers based on the actual behaviour.

[Sewerfish]

Since OCR is not fixed but subject to change based on IG actions and events, I am not so sure the starting OCR is so important. OCR is representative of both physical traits and behavior (or reputation). Therefore why an OCR is what it is may be different for different PCs.

Similarly, influence and charisma are representative of physical traits and social skills.

Considering we are talking about the interaction of at least 4 traits with loose definitions, there is a good degree of flexibility for how each player may interpret how these character statistics (Race, OCR, CHA, and Influence) interact to create the concept of their PC. It is up to the player to make this interpretation come to life through RP.

I think the system in place does a good job of melding these factors and creating consequences for being an outcast while allowing players to be creative. While I think most of the non-standard races and Calibans should generally be outcasts, I also think there should be a way for exceptions to be made and mechanically this is through influence and Cha. I'm not sure that a little tweaking in any direction would really change the game. These mechanics shouldn't be over emphasized.  Much more can be done to create an appropriate atmosphere through RPing these traits and reacting to them than through mechanics.

Suggestions
Slow the OCR reduction rate for Caliban and freak races to reflect their outcast disposition and increased difficulty being forgotten/earning tolerance.

Entering places like the sewers cause OCR to increase in a temporary way to reflect lingering odors.. perhaps for a 8-12 hour period.

DMs give PCs OCR points for talking in public about undead, crypts, magic, sewers, having glowing weapons, eyes, wings, being outside at night, ect.

In Barovia.. entering a crypt or even the forest might rouse the suspicion of the locals... who besides the insane enter a crypt, or the forests with all those freakish elves and other worse things. Yeah! And way too few caster PCs are being identified as witches! While Caliban's are freaks, when compared to most of the other PCs, they are really not so odd.

I don't post often so I allow myself to ramble a bit off topic

[Norture]

In my eyes, a half-orc/caliban with OCR that is under the threshold that would lead to him or her being attacked (16) would seem like a leper to most people. They don't look as bad as a womb-freak would, but Iadul help you if you go near it, because you'll likely catch the pox.

I put tons of points into Ratty's influence so he could try and work his way up to go into town, maybe pass as a really ugly human and not a caliban. It's one of his character goals. "I want everything normal people have. I want to go into houses. I want something more than just a sewer."

[Blackthorn51]

Also, since most Caliban are Half Orc and often have their entire body covered in armor, is it not also possible that they might be mistaken for a large human?  Like a body builder or something?  It always kinda irks me when I see people yelling at helmet wearing Caliban because of the "Orc" body type... 

[Jay]

Also, since most Caliban are Half Orc and often have their entire body covered in armor, is it not also possible that they might be mistaken for a large human?  Like a body builder or something?  It always kinda irks me when I see people yelling at helmet wearing Caliban because of the "Orc" body type... 

Any Human with the "orc" bodytype is a freak-o-nature. Seriously. (and i have reacted to Humans who have been given that body-type by GM's with the same way i would a caliban).
I've also recated poorly to Humans who are over seven foot tall (in their character descriptions) because they too are freaks-o-nature.
A Garda (and almost all Barovians) won't look at somebody of those proportions and think "Oh i guess it's humanly possible," they'll think "Oh my god! a Monster! Where are my children!"

[Vespertilio]

Doesn't Radu have the half-orc body type?

[Mayvind]

Ok i dont want to do this but here we go....


Drow... DRIZZT, he have high reputation and even some part of the realm even respect. So i don't see why a Caliban or Orc or what ever that beat game mechanic with using influence skill combine with CHA should not be treat as " Special Case" as DRIZZT.  You might have suspicious of his motivation and his looks but rumor has it he is OK.

Would it ruin the setting ? I don't think so.. you can still call him names, scowl or throw few insult but not enough to attack the Caliban but avoiding him.

[Jay]

Doesn't Radu have the half-orc body type?

Nope he has the "fat human" type that very few people actually use.

[Vespertilio]

That maul is even more impressive than I recall then, it adds height to his presence heheh!

[HellsPanda]

A big hammer makes everyone look taller. Khidron is almost human heigh when armed

[Nurlithion]

Ok i dont want to do this but here we go....


Drow... DRIZZT, he have high reputation and even some part of the realm even respect. So i don't see why a Caliban or Orc or what ever that beat game mechanic with using influence skill combine with CHA should not be treat as " Special Case" as DRIZZT.  You might have suspicious of his motivation and his looks but rumor has it he is OK.

Would it ruin the setting ? I don't think so.. you can still call him names, scowl or throw few insult but not enough to attack the Caliban but avoiding him.

It's totally not like that, Driz'zt can barely go anywhere: even Silverymoon, whose queen Alustriel is a personal friend of his, has to use magic to hide his coming and going from the city when he goes there. Outside of maybe Mithral Hall and the high wilderness areas, Driz'zt isn't at all free from persecution.

[Winter83]

OMG can someone copy here the description of the Bracers of the Caliban ranger (or what's the name)?

Because that little story is a nice example what happens to Caliban with a good reputation! 

[m1ka]

It's a case of "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
While a significantly charismatic Caliban/Half-Orc could be ignored simply because he's simply *so* influential that people go "yes we hate Claiban, but that one doesn't look so bad." Having him walk down the street waving cheerily at NPC Garda is just showing disrespect to the setting, and eventually people will take offense to that.

Totally agree.  My tiefling toon has skill points in influence, but there is no way you would catch her wandering around seen anywhere near the outskirts or town, even if npcs (guards, beggars, etc.) are not mechanically hostile towards her.