Helm of the Bat

[dark_majico]

It seems obsured, and OOC that you can take a helm of the bat and turn it into a shadowed hood, I think just like certain robes the Bat Helm should be none craftable.

[Jay]

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=23926.msg289231#msg289231

[Bluebomber4evr]

That makes sense. It's hard to keep track of what's in the loot tables since that stuff's not on the palette and you have to dig through placeable inventories to find them. Feel free to list any similar items here.

[Jay]

Personally i think it's absurd that people should be forced to wear mismatched clownsuit, and there are much more immersion breaking things to be worried about then someone crafting an item of headgear to match their characters "Flavour".

[Vespertilio]

Personally i think it's absurd that people should be forced to wear mismatched clownsuit, and there are much more immersion breaking things to be worried about then someone crafting an item of headgear to match their characters "Flavour".

Comparing PotM to other servers which don't allow customization I have to agree.  A setting where every fighter is wearing the same suit of armor and the same helm*, and they all look like soldiers in the same army due to an inability to change look or even color is far worse than the possibility that some one might modify a helm to look like a hood imo.  I played one of those servers and frankly every fighter in a golden circlet wearing red dragon armor was visually boring, silly and made it incredibly easy to know who was using what items, and thus their strengths and possible weaknesses.  While hardly meta, I'd actually prefer to spend the time ic paying attention, rp'ing and learning what a character wears or favors rather than looking at their pc and immediately knowing what the armor, helm or weapon used was.


*Because no matter how many items are available it usually ends up various classes wear similar items, the 'best' full plate armor in any setting tends to be used by 90% of full plate wearers simply because it's the logical choice.

[Purist]

I do agree that certain things can be done, like getting a robe over a suit of full plate, or make a helmet of the bat, which has large "wings", hidden by a hood. Though, visually wise, there is not the real fact of seeing the hood being mishappen by the helm below, nor the robe having the shape of the armor under. I'm in favor of customizing things to actually look like what they are supposed to look. That's why my character looks like he's using a full plate, it's honest to the others, any hostile target will know that I'm ready to fight, because I'm in a damn heavy armor, what if I'd craft it to look like a fancy coat? People would feel that I'm vulnerable and would perhaps come and assault me, if they wanted of course, but hey, that coat grants me 9AC. And the leather looking boots I have actually are made of plated steel and weight 5 times more than a regular leather boot, and also grants me bonus to my balance vs knockdown.(discipline)

[Bluebomber4evr]

Personally i think it's absurd that people should be forced to wear mismatched clownsuit, and there are much more immersion breaking things to be worried about then someone crafting an item of headgear to match their characters "Flavour".

Oh please, nobody's holding a gun to your head to make your character use certain magic items.

[Jay]

Personally i think it's absurd that people should be forced to wear mismatched clownsuit, and there are much more immersion breaking things to be worried about then someone crafting an item of headgear to match their characters "Flavour".

Oh please, nobody's holding a gun to your head to make your character use certain magic items.

True, you could always use sub-par gear and die all the time.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Personally i think it's absurd that people should be forced to wear mismatched clownsuit, and there are much more immersion breaking things to be worried about then someone crafting an item of headgear to match their characters "Flavour".

Oh please, nobody's holding a gun to your head to make your character use certain magic items.

True, you could always use sub-par gear and die all the time.

Or you could buy non-magical stuff, craft it to your heart's content, then use varnishes and/or the enchantment system to make it much more powerful than anything you find in the loot system.

[Vespertilio]

Or you could buy non-magical stuff, craft it to your heart's content, then use varnishes and/or the enchantment system to make it much more powerful than anything you find in the loot system.

I would love to see the ability to enchant robes/cloth added.  Surely an option my pcs would take if they had it.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Or you could buy non-magical stuff, craft it to your heart's content, then use varnishes and/or the enchantment system to make it much more powerful than anything you find in the loot system.

I would love to see the ability to enchant robes/cloth added.  Surely an option my pcs would take if they had it.

It's going to be added in the future. It just depends on how much free time Soren has.

[Jeebs]

All of this being said, why not just add in your character's description that you're wearing a robe over your armor, or a cloak with the hood drawn up over your helm?  I've seen people emote such, and I have no issues with having it in the PCs description. The game is dated and the graphics don't support what we're doing a fair bit of the time so some concessions have to be made. I like being able to customize my stuff and have my character look unique.... however I do understand that SOME items should be made to be non-modifiable and I have no issues with that either.

[dutchy]

blue i disagree, your defence and solution is usually it will get changed/added  in the future.

we arnt playing then we are playing now, with the hopes of more of the good stuff later.

ive seen the same thing as vespertllo has    once more things or the strong/best things get locked from alteration you will see a shitload of people wearing the same thing, it sort of kills a + the server has to offer we can alter allot of stuff we can actually walk around within our own styles if we please to do so.

cause lets be honest here the one who created the item does not have the same taste as the ones using it, so why does the creator get a say on how it looks and not us?

[Amon-Si]

I think the helm of the bat provides the bonuses it does because of the way it looks, to physically change the shape of the helm wouldn't you have to damage/destropy/weaken the ability bonus it grants? In the item description i'm pretty sure it mentions the bat-like bits being the functional aspect of the helm. To remove of cover them up could reduce or destroy its functionality. This is specific to that helm, from its description.

[Purist]

I think customization is a must, and there's no other option. I just disagree on certain aspects of it, as mentioned, turning a helmet into a hood-like thing? Seriously, what person in the middle ages would ever, ever, wear a hood over a metal bucket? Is it not enough impairment? I'd go as far as suggesting that besides the heavy metal case in your head and the added cloth (with it's possible restraints it can give), get a big studded silver gilded steel leather hat.

[dutchy]

well i do admid theres a flaw from metal to hood is a strange thing but it is a game with these limitations we cant have the real deal beside theres magic and the likes.

as for discriptions a shitload of items have those stating they look like this and that and can all be alterd and im glad they can else i would know everyones gear by just looking at them.

[Purist]

It's not just about being more faithful to a medieval world, it's also common sense. And again, I insist, customization is a must, there was not mass production with assembling lines in the past, not until great advances in mechanisms like replaceable parts and the like, and it was all possible thanks to steam and electricity. (all those countless hours in Civilization games were not in vain after all lol)

[Bluebomber4evr]

blue i disagree, your defence and solution is usually it will get changed/added  in the future.

we arnt playing then we are playing now, with the hopes of more of the good stuff later.

ive seen the same thing as vespertllo has    once more things or the strong/best things get locked from alteration you will see a shitload of people wearing the same thing, it sort of kills a + the server has to offer we can alter allot of stuff we can actually walk around within our own styles if we please to do so.

cause lets be honest here the one who created the item does not have the same taste as the ones using it, so why does the creator get a say on how it looks and not us?

Wow, sense of entitlement much?

We work on a volunteer basis, and we have have free time.

With that sort of attitude, I don't see why we should continue to do either.

[Amon-Si]

Alright.... so.... this is awkward.

To sum up my own position;
I am in favour of customisation of any and all items/gear/etc
However, I wouldn't complain if some items that require a certain shape to function were locked into their appearances.

[dutchy]

no such thing stop the boo hoo  you know damn well that i and others apreciate what the devs do.

my question is simple.
why would items not be able to be altered?
cause a dev made them up in his/her imaging of how it should look.

we as players might/do not share the same taste of how an item was created in this instance a helmet.

so why does it have to look as the creator made it and not as a player made it?



this less gruff? or hostile???

[Jeebs]

this less gruff? or hostile???

If you ignore the first sentence, yes....

[dutchy]

i see it like this.

if a cop gives you a ticket
a: you think hes awesome and your jumping for joy to pay it.
b: you dont apreciate that encounter or the ticket or the cop but you apreciate the work they do catching bad guys.

i pick b

thus i dont apreciate less items to alter    but i do apreciate we have so many items and a world to play in

[Bluebomber4evr]

no such thing stop the boo hoo  you know damn well that i and others apreciate what the devs do.

How about you stop being inconsiderate and acting like you're owed something?

When you say stuff like this:

blue i disagree, your defence and solution is usually it will get changed/added  in the future.

we arnt playing then we are playing now, with the hopes of more of the good stuff later.

...you come across as petulant and impatient. Soren is the one who writes the scripts for the crafting system, he's also trying to get a degree from University. Guess which is more important?

I said it was planned and will be implemented as soon as possible, But no, you need everything exactly the way you want it RIGHT NOW

my question is simple.
why would items not be able to be altered?
cause a dev made them up in his/her imaging of how it should look.

That's not the reason why. I've explained it before, but the way NWN does item appearances combined with some of the funky appearances added by the CEP leads to weird combinations that we feel are silly, such as adding metal arm/leg parts to AC0 clothes, all the various S&M cheesecake outfits, and being able to turn a torch into a baby.

Furthermore, if you enchant a metal helmet, it shouldn't be able to retain its enchantment if you replace the metal entirely with cloth. It doesn't make sense. Or if the enchantments are placed on a silk gown, it wouldn't retain the enchantment if you replaced all the silk with leather.

EDIT: also, some items are intentionally designed for only one gender (eg Akiri sorceress gown, holy virgin robe), but the easiest way to enforce that is to limit crafting on them--the other method involves running a script to check genders every time the item is equipped which can cause performance issues

The tradeoff being that once the all of the various crafting scripts are made, people can enchant whatever item appearances they want, minus the S&M cheesecake stuff. So if you want customized magical gear, you would to make it yourself; but if you're just going to use castoffs you found in a dungeon, you're more limited because the enchantments are already in place.

[EberronBruce]

First off I think the Dev team and DM team deserves a round of applause and cookies.
It can be seen the amount of work they put into this project. The animal AI is some of the best I seen. They have a crafting system that is unique and not based of off level or too complicated like the UIAbigail system.    They put in a lot of work to create an atmosphere and environment for us to enjoy. Look at the work they put in first before you go bickering. This is not an easy project and these are volunteers.

First off there is already a lot of customization, customization is good but I think there should be some limits.

Here is an example. Someone that is walking around in a skirt. That is what you see, but they just modify a full plate to look like that skirt. I have seen things like this. First off I think there should be limits to avoid this. Skirt =/= Tin Can. I think it becomes a poor representation of the weight and AC the plate provides while the person is not an illusionist. I think plate should look like plate.

Also people can customize weapons armor and other things without any character know how or tools. I think for customizing weapon and armor there should be a fix place like a smithry and the character should have to roll a smithing check for success and pay some coin. This is to represent know how, tools, and costs.

Also many things are customizable. I customize my cloak to match the elven cloaks in Degannwy as well as a sand mask to a hood. This makes it look my character has been living among the elves for some time and adopted some of their ways and clothing. Nothing wrong with some customization especially if it can help make your character to add to the environment.

As most of you know, my character I play is a smith. As a player I don't like the generic Bioware graphics for armor and weapons. To me they look horrible. This is one thing. The other thing is I am trying to play my character as the artist type of smith. So, as a player I can spend a lot of time customizing templates before I smith them. Making them look a certain way. With armors I spend a lot of time customizing templates and dying them. However, I recognize that most people don't do that. Kashia is the other character that I know that modifies her leather armors. Sometimes with the effort, I don't feel reward RP wise in putting in my time to fix the customization to make something look the best I can.

Also there is limitations on customizations. You can only get so many variations of looks.

Also the creators of the magical gear have a say on how it looks. If you pull a helm out of a chest, did your character make it. No. So how is it that your character can decide to change the way it looks without destroying it or its enchantments. Same goes with weapons and other things. Point is if the devs want to lock the customization on certain items they can. They know which character created and what it looks like.

If you think something looks cheesy or off and you don't think it fits the atmosphere, then it would be best to send the dev team a forum pm with some suggestions. It is a lot nicer than complaining about it.

[Norture]

So it will be possible to put specific skills on items in the future? Not that I mind if the helm of the bat becomes uncraftable, I'm geared out and I'd be perfectly happy with nobody using a listen piece because it's ugly.