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Author Topic: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...  (Read 4124 times)

Blackthorn51

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Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« on: May 05, 2012, 04:28:39 AM »
Okay so this is something thats been bothering me for a while now...  Figured it worth posting...

What is with "Monsters" (Ones without Regen) being able to magically heal to 100% HP from Near Death?

It seems that when fighting a monster...  If you have to disengage combat for more than 60 Seconds the monster regains full health...

Nothing is more frustrating than having a Near Death bad guy go back to full health -right- as your about to gank him...

The request:  Can we please extend the time frame with which monsters regain all of their HP?  Or at the very least...  Make it "realistic" in that...  Make those buggers actually drink healing potions or consume healing items of some nature rather than just "Boom full health"

Please and thanks.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 05:19:34 AM by Blackthorn51 »

HellsPanda

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Re: Frustration. Monsters Instant Healing.
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 04:29:42 AM »
it actually takes awhile, like about how long it takes for a player to run off and rest up.

Blackthorn51

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Re: Frustration. Monsters Instant Healing.
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2012, 05:10:22 AM »
Nope.  Just happened with a spawn of Ghosts in monastery.  I got knocked out.  Counted to twenty five.  They all went from near death to max health.  The Healing Rate of monsters seems to have increased to ridiculous and obscene.  Seriously.  25-30 seconds post combat every single spawn regains full health even if they dont have regen.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 05:16:10 AM by Blackthorn51 »

Misted_Horror

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2012, 05:41:16 AM »
Quote
like about how long it takes for a player to run off and rest up.

As he said, it only takes about 20-25 seconds to use a heal kit on yourself, drop a bed-roll, eat a ration, and sleep.

dark_majico

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2012, 09:27:26 AM »
Okay so this is something thats been bothering me for a while now...  Figured it worth posting...

What is with "Monsters" (Ones without Regen) being able to magically heal to 100% HP from Near Death?

It seems that when fighting a monster...  If you have to disengage combat for more than 60 Seconds the monster regains full health...

Nothing is more frustrating than having a Near Death bad guy go back to full health -right- as your about to gank him...

The request:  Can we please extend the time frame with which monsters regain all of their HP?  Or at the very least...  Make it "realistic" in that...  Make those buggers actually drink healing potions or consume healing items of some nature rather than just "Boom full health"

Please and thanks.

Yeah this is sort of thing is lame, I tend too encounter this while barely surviving worg attacks, the near death worg runs away, I drink a potion, chase after it and its magically back to normal health and I get pwned. Its totally lame, its one of these situations where perfectly legitimate actions result in honest players being ganked because of a small risk that the occasional player will something that might raise an eyebrow or two. Does the entire player base have to be tarred with this lame arse brush so much?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 09:30:35 AM by dark_majico »

Misted_Horror

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2012, 10:00:50 AM »
You could just not worry about getting that phat xp, be glad you stabilised or were healed and leg it away to safety?

dark_majico

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2012, 10:06:51 AM »
You could just not worry about getting that phat xp, be glad you stabilised or were healed and leg it away to safety?

Worgs dont give phat XP, so rethink that post.

Misted_Horror

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2012, 10:27:02 AM »
Why bother chasing them down, when you're at deaths door then? Makes little IC sense. It's like being shot, going back, fixing up and then charging headlong in to a gattling gun, no intelligence involved in that what so ever.

herkles

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2012, 10:30:49 AM »
Why bother chasing them down, when you're at deaths door then? Makes little IC sense. It's like being shot, going back, fixing up and then charging headlong in to a gattling gun, no intelligence involved in that what so ever.

*casts heal on myself* so I am not at door's death anymore :P my issue with this is the opposite, when you fall down and they heal up, more often then not they are right next to you. so you can't really escape to go and leave because they will beat you to death again.


Misted_Horror

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2012, 10:38:06 AM »
:P Good point, that's where it needs fixing though where they retreat away from you/resume their normal places. Would make it so people can run away to come back and fight another day, with another member and be a little more prepared.

Aduial

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2012, 11:02:10 AM »
Honestly i never experienced such a problem. but perhaps some lag caused it?

Blackthorn51

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2012, 11:31:33 AM »
Nah its not lag.  Its just a pain in the arse.  Here, I'll paint a picture...

Quote
Picture One:
Vincent and Jocelyn enter monastery.  Its on high spawn so instead of a romper stomper run, we actually have to be careful and take it slow.  During the fight, Vincent gets knocked unconscious.  He's bleeding to death and without immediate attention will die.  The spawn standing on top of him are all near death or badly wounded.  In this situation, Jocelyn needs to withdraw -just- long enough to heal herself, then immediately return to heal Vincent.  In order to heal Vincent without him just getting insta-ganked by the ghosts...  She must first clear them away.  She has been gone less than thirty seconds and returns only to find that every single ghost is back to full health and still floating over top of Vincents bleeding body.  Where she could have cast a single Hammer of the Gods to finish off all those near death monsters to save Vincent, she must instead fight the spawn (that just romped us both at max power) at about 30% of her capacity vs their 100% capacity.  End Result?  Total PK.


Quote
Picture Number Two:
Vincent, Jocelyn and Sebastian enter Terg Ruins.  They engage in a fight against a Blaspheme with all 3 PCs at 100% potential.  After a grueling fight, all 3 PCs are knocked to unconscious and are bleeding to death.  Naturally, the Blaspheme is blocking the only exit from the scene.  He has no intentions of returning to his post and instead is on guard duty of the bleeding corpses.  The Blaspheme is at near death and everyone knows that one or two more hits will kill it thus allowing the party to be rescued.  Escape is impossible.  Stopping to heal will result in AoO and death.  Turning Invisible will also result in death.  Vincent stabilizes knowing he has one chance to save the party and avoid TPK.  He stands and sprints far enough away to fire 1 (maybe 2) arrows before the Blaspheme is close enough to kill him.  He fires a solid arrow that surely would have killed the Blaspheme but instead see's the Blaspheme is back to 100% HP.  A blink of an eye later, Vincent is dead.  End Result?  TPK.

In both of these situations it wasnt about XP.  It was about survival of the party after a near defeat, where the only hope for survival of the party is for that 1 player who recovered to finish off the -Near Death- monsters before they kill off everyone in the group.  I can understand monsters healing if a PC area transitions away from the scene, rests and returns...  But often times that's not the case.  Hopefully both examples help give an idea as to why its so bloody frustrating when monsters recover to 100% in a matter of -SECONDS-  More so when said monsters dont even have Regen (Or at least no where near enough regen to go from near death to uninjured in the blink of an eye.)

This happens -very- frequently.  Not just to me either.  I've encountered it several times with various groups that have been TPKed as a result of a Monster insta-healing in the few seconds following the initial stages of combat.

PC's do not Auto Regen HP over -any- period of time.  Only through rest or healing.  I request that Monsters be treated the same in that...  They must -actually- rest or utilize healing supplies to restore their HP.  Otherwise its entirely cheesy and very far from fair to the Players.  Make the monsters more believable in this regard please and hopefully balance out what they can do vs what the players can do (within reason of course).

As it currently is... Its nonsencial, frustrating and has resulted in SEVERAL tpk's that could have otherwise been avoided had the monsters not gone from "Danger Will Robinson!" to "Time to kick ass and chew gum" in the blink of an eye.



:P Good point, that's where it needs fixing though where they retreat away from you/resume their normal places. Would make it so people can run away to come back and fight another day, with another member and be a little more prepared.

Why on earth would they leave though?  It makes sense to me that they stand over the corpse to make sure their most recent victim does not escape.  What doesnt make sense however is how they can instantly heal up so quickly.  Situations like the above mentioned ones make any kind of recovery/escape impossible.  Even more so if you have team mates on the ground that are also bleeding to death or already corpsed.

I'd just like to see them actually have to perform an action to heal themselves be it rest or consumables or abilities.  This way, it might leave them vulnerable for the split second it takes to finish them off to save your party or perhaps provide that AoO that would give you a chance to save the day instead of recovering to find the entire spawn you just sliced and diced fully recovered...

I figure...  if a full party gets pwned and 1 survives....  That 1 will often times have a .0000001% chance of saving the party.  Particularly if the monster is blocking the only escape thus -forcing- you to try and finish him off before he finishes you off...
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 11:51:19 AM by Blackthorn51 »

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2012, 12:15:14 PM »
In both of these situations, I think its a courtesy that this mindless, undead creature didn't just drain you / eat you / destroy you. PCs can shut a door and run and rest a screen length away when normally that intelligent vampire would of followed and attacked you while you were weak. I don't see any issue if someone in your party has time to run back and heal, that the monsters have that chance too. I can tell you as an MPC, I've had players who were subdued, rest -right- after because I wasn't in line of sight. I've had players log out, relog back in to reset me to hostile, so that they could rest and run away right in front of my while I was dealing with someone else.

And in both of these situations, it sounds like your trying to attempt something with too few people.

I'm getting horridly off topic.

armybrat69

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2012, 12:25:37 PM »
What I have noticed is the monsters (non shapechanger) will not heal up if they remain in combat mode. But if they do not detect an enemy (us the players) they will basically "reset" and be back at full health. I dont think its a game flaw, but i will say nothing is more frustrating then when that damned monster is drooling over my unconscious body while I -hope- to roll a 90 and stabilize .
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Blackthorn51

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2012, 02:44:57 PM »
If you flee, they will chase you non stop.  I've had Gilos chase me as far as the Southern Forest.  Had his health not returned in the time that I went from 0 to 1 hp, I could have easily hit him that one last time it would have taken to kill him.  Instead however, he chased me down 6 Areas away to kill me lol.  Every time I'd get a healing parcel off, he'd score another hit and take me to even lower hp.   In many situations, the monsters do indeed keep attacking until your dead.  Other times they leave you alone once your out cold (perhaps they assume your already dead?) until you stand up and try to run away.  Then I guess they notice your not dead after all and pwn you.

I think monsters should definitely be able to rest and heal just like players do.  I just wish they -actually- had to REST or Use Healing to regain HP (if they dont have regen) the way players do.  Or at the very least...  Increase the timer.  In the example 2 for instance, running away was not an option.  The party of 3 would have survived if the Blaspheme had not recovered the moment combat ended.  In Example 2, the blaspheme was actually taken to Near Death and recovered to full HP 2 times before TPK.  Both times, he recovered within seconds of combat being disengaged.

I've actually seen -some- monsters Insta heal to full WHILE chasing me too lol.

As for difficulty of the dungeons from examples 1 and 2...  Honestly just a run of bad luck. Normally I mob those places.  They were just examples to illustrate the speed with which monsters will recover from 1 hp to Max hp.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 02:47:18 PM by Blackthorn51 »

Mcskinns

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2012, 04:14:27 PM »
might be possible to apply a regen effect to monsters after they leave combat, and reset their spells after a certain time as well, rather than insta-healing them



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Blackthorn51

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2012, 04:28:07 PM »
See that would make sense too.  I'd be way cool with Monsters retaining the ability to heal.  I just think the current rate with which they reset themselves is a bit too quick.

dark_majico

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2012, 04:36:23 PM »
might be possible to apply a regen effect to monsters after they leave combat, and reset their spells after a certain time as well, rather than insta-healing them

See that would make sense too.  I'd be way cool with Monsters retaining the ability to heal.  I just think the current rate with which they reset themselves is a bit too quick.

Oh please no don't give them any more crackpot ideas. We have NPC's that instantly regain HP after they flee, don't make them get some cookey idea that monsters who don't naturally regenerate should you know...regenerate.

Dhark

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2012, 04:40:24 PM »
I like the suggestion of applying monsterous regeneration instead of a full heal. :thumbup:

dark_majico

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2012, 05:07:32 PM »
Actually better yet ive had a brain wave, since this happens to monsters seemingly to stop the community exploiting the rest feature, we just need to mirror the idea and apply it to player characters. I propose that when ever an NPC tries to exploit the game engine by fleeing combat and regaining its HP, player characters get 'reset' instead. We must prevent this seriouse all be it rather minute possibility, as we must do all remote and minute possibilitys of exploitation in the community. I have seen a lot of instances of NPC's fleeing combat leading me to believe the NPC's are trying to exploit and regain full HP!! So sadly due to a few "bad apples" I think its only right that player characters have there own health reset after an NPC flees combat to ensure this dosent happen in the future. Its the only fair and correct thing to do.

Jeebs

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2012, 06:47:59 PM »
Actually better yet ive had a brain wave, since this happens to monsters seemingly to stop the community exploiting the rest feature, we just need to mirror the idea and apply it to player characters. I propose that when ever an NPC tries to exploit the game engine by fleeing combat and regaining its HP, player characters get 'reset' instead. We must prevent this seriouse all be it rather minute possibility, as we must do all remote and minute possibilitys of exploitation in the community. I have seen a lot of instances of NPC's fleeing combat leading me to believe the NPC's are trying to exploit and regain full HP!! So sadly due to a few "bad apples" I think its only right that player characters have there own health reset after an NPC flees combat to ensure this dosent happen in the future. Its the only fair and correct thing to do.

 :lol: In all seriousness though, I understand the concerns of the OP.  I've had it happen several times myself. I like the idea that they would have to rest, since that would require them to be away from enemies (I assume it works the same way for NPCs as it does for PCs) even if they don't require potions or healing supplies to get back to full health, if they at least had to stop and find a safe place to rest a bit, then regain full health, it would seem a bit more sensible than what currently happens.

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2012, 12:35:39 PM »
it annoys me when a player goes down  and has to roll to get back on his feet during those rolls the monsters around him are suddenly at full health again  it creates more problems then it should in my eyes.

would like to see it removed or the trigger prolonged.
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Ercvadasz

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Re: Regen Rate of Monsters Without Regen...
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2012, 06:51:16 PM »
worse is when you fight a battle which you can win fully buffed, than near death all 4 monsters run away, you chase one, fight it to the death, but since the four ran four ways, the other three comes back to you cuz of the listen script with full hp and tries the ganking again. In worst case scenario you have to fight them with full hp individually each time aka: slowly devouring your hp, b running out of buffs and die, c forcing you to flee if possible.
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