faction banking

[herkles]

Hello,

One thing I was wondering is it is posible to have a faction banking? basically a bank that everyone in a faction, or perhaps of a certain rank could use. I know for the ezrites, it could be helpful in giving money for church projects and what not that everyone can donate towards and I am sure that other factions like the ML, vardo and garda could find other ways to use a faction bank as well.

curious what others think and if this is even possible.

-herkles

[HellsPanda]

It would require a complete rewriting of how the bank account is stored, currently it is stored in your skin.

[Elfric]

your skin.
your skin.
your skin.
your skin.

0_0 I didn't know that. I assumed it was the character ID it registered itself with.

[Ophie Kitty]

It would require a complete rewriting of how the bank account is stored, currently it is stored in your skin.

Actually! Since the update with the polymorph bugs, the IDs are stored to the character item in your inventory!

I found out this bug; When it was duplicating and removing what I had stored in my bank.

[APorg]

It would require a complete rewriting of how the bank account is stored, currently it is stored in your skin.

I don't think the hard part is having the extra bank account(s) for factions. The hard part is the responsible accounting and signing off on disbursements.

[Ovidiu_Lacusta]

It would require a complete rewriting of how the bank account is stored, currently it is stored in your skin.

I don't think the hard part is having the extra bank account(s) for factions. The hard part is the responsible accounting and signing off on disbursements.

This is where a wealth of RP is possible for "treasurer" PCs, who have to report to leadership on a monthly basis on the status of accounts, set goals for gain, prioritize spending, and so on.  The existing bank system could be used and it could be placed on a player to document all the activity with it. A wealth of possibilities

[HellsPanda]

oh right, that change. Well it still leads to the same problem with storing, which is basically the char needs to be online.

The way storing coins has been done in the past, is by the promotion of treasurers its how the Militia set up a payment and emergency fund system.

[Avatar6666]

Could you not set that up by faction key? If your a certain level of factoin, you can access the bank.

[Ophie Kitty]

Could you not set that up by faction key? If your a certain level of factoin, you can access the bank.

The bank has to be stored somewhere that 'everyone' can have access to. Currently banks are stored personally on an item in your inventory.

[Avatar6666]

Thats why i thought faction items for factions would work. ONly a certain level of each faction would be allowed to see the account. Just a thought.

[herkles]

What I think he is saying is if you have an item that was given to people of a certain rank. could it not be scripted so that this item gives access to the faction bank?

[Ophie Kitty]

What I think he is saying is if you have an item that was given to people of a certain rank. could it not be scripted so that this item gives access to the faction bank?

Alright. Lets explain this a bit easier.


If you (player A) have a bank, it is stored as a variable on an item in your possession (In this case, the OOC Character Token). If player B tries to access that same bank thats shared between you, how do you check the funds, if player A isn't online? The item does not exist on the server thus, the current funds aren't able to be seen.  You cant have an item on each player, because then they wouldn't get updated.

[Vespertilio]

The way storing coins has been done in the past, is by the promotion of treasurers its how the Militia set up a payment and emergency fund system.

This worked very well in Militia and in RvT from my personal experiences.  An added precaution to prevent losing an entire faction's access to funds should a player become inactive/disappear was giving more than one 'officer' level pc a portion of the faction's funds and a record kept of it on the faction forums.  This also meant the faction as a whole had more than one character which could hand out funds/payments/reimburse expenses which is always good with time zone considerations.  The additional rp possibilities/opportunities make this a fairly workable and rp inspiring solution.

[CuddleGutz]

If you (player A) have a bank, it is stored as a variable on an item in your possession (In this case, the OOC Character Token). If player B tries to access that same bank thats shared between you, how do you check the funds, if player A isn't online? The item does not exist on the server thus, the current funds aren't able to be seen.  You cant have an item on each player, because then they wouldn't get updated.

Precisely this. It would require a variable for each faction and it's not clear where that variable should be stored. It can't be stored on a character or item because that character would have to be online. Multiple items can't share the same variable/value pair and constantly stay in sync, because they're distinct entities.

[Mcskinns]

It could be done in one fashion or another...

For example....

Lets assume the Red Vardo Traders set up a personal guild account.  Implement a NPC to the Offices for people to make deposits, and for certain ranked officers to be able to make withdraws.  Anytime there is a change to the bank, two variables are saved to every PC's inventory item currently online as well as a placeable in whatever place the DM's have set up for such.  The first variable (RVT_timestamp) marks the day/time in game, the second (RVT_bank)  denotes the amount in the account.  Modifications to the OnEnter scripts for the module would allow every player who logs in to be checked for the value of the RVT_timestamp and if it is an older day/time than the one presently saved to the placeable, then it updates the PC object to have the current values.

In this fashion, as PC's log back in after a reset, the variable could be read from the PC's and saved to the placeable once more.  In the event the first players to log in do not have the most recent variable saved, the OnEnter scripts could overwrite older variables and update the PC objects when a more recent saved variable does log in.  Since more often than not during a server crash or reset a fair number of the playerbase logs right back in when it comes up, the chance of a "loss" is unlikely.



Sad thing is, I know how it could work, but don't know enough scripting to write it myself. 

[CuddleGutz]

In this fashion, as PC's log back in after a reset, the variable could be read from the PC's and saved to the placeable once more.  In the event the first players to log in do not have the most recent variable saved, the OnEnter scripts could overwrite older variables and update the PC objects when a more recent saved variable does log in.  Since more often than not during a server crash or reset a fair number of the playerbase logs right back in when it comes up, the chance of a "loss" is unlikely.

Programmatically, it's a great solution. In terms of efficiency, it's generally a bad idea to ever search all players or add more to what's done when a player logs in than absolutely necessary. As for storing on an NPC or object, it's an interesting idea, but would usually be lost in every reset. And without the NPC, your design requires a member of the faction to be on when a new one logs in, or one person might be able to deposit/withdraw and get a _new_ timestamp that's actually based off an outdated one. Basically, we know how to do it. We just don't know how to do it easily or efficiently. I'll add it to my after-finals-week todo list!

[Mcskinns]

well CuddleGutz, you would know much better than I what system resources it would take and how much lag it might cause, I merely understand the logic behind how the scripts fire.  I'm sure any time you decide to put into trying to make a workable solution to the system idea would be much appreciated by the factions who would benefit. 

You are correct in the fact that if none of the PC's who were online before a reset were to log back in the account would be updated with the wrong number.  Which alone is reason enough not to go that route unless some means of ensuring the proper variables can be recalled before someone makes any adjustments to the existing ones.  Sadly, this is something I don't know how to accomplish without some sort of server side variable storage database.  Which is something I know we have avoided resorting to for good reasons. 

[Dobian]

This was the short-term solution I proposed on the Ezra faction thread.  Essentially, have a faction DM character (not an NPC) that a DM logs in and plays so you can make deposits.

Thanks, I skimmed through that thread.  So obviously some coding issues to make that work especially if it is an application that works across factions.  But we need a short-term solution.  What I would suggest is for a DM-created character that simply acts as a bank and never leaves the church or rectory.  So the DM character, which would just be some generic anchorite, would log in for people to hand over the money, then log out.  The character could have a short IC background of being a clerk or accountant from Levkarest assigned to the Vallaki church.  The PCs, knowing how much each project costs and how much in gold their banker has (by asking the character IC or in a forum post), can request a withdrawal to complete a particular project when enough has been saved.  The DM would then reduce the banker character's funds by this amount and start work on the project.  I think this would solve the problem pretty elegantly.

[Mcskinns]

This was the short-term solution I proposed on the Ezra faction thread.  Essentially, have a faction DM character (not an NPC) that a DM logs in and plays so you can make deposits.

Thanks, I skimmed through that thread.  So obviously some coding issues to make that work especially if it is an application that works across factions.  But we need a short-term solution.  What I would suggest is for a DM-created character that simply acts as a bank and never leaves the church or rectory.  So the DM character, which would just be some generic anchorite, would log in for people to hand over the money, then log out.  The character could have a short IC background of being a clerk or accountant from Levkarest assigned to the Vallaki church.  The PCs, knowing how much each project costs and how much in gold their banker has (by asking the character IC or in a forum post), can request a withdrawal to complete a particular project when enough has been saved.  The DM would then reduce the banker character's funds by this amount and start work on the project.  I think this would solve the problem pretty elegantly.

And then the day comes that life steals a DM from us.  For a week, or a month... or they end up stepping down.  Or are simply not online during the hours that some players need them.  Yes it is a temporary fix, but honestly... so is picking a PC and having them bank the coin for the faction.  Your still relying on one persons availability.

[Nemien Callishan]

Problem is that GM characters don't save on log off like players do. In fact the players don't by default either. That had to be done server side. GM@s need to save manualy before logging out or they'll lose everything and revert back to the way they were when they last logged on.

And it saves copies instead of overwriting wich makes it a pain to keep track of wich save file has what and wich is the most up to date.

[Dobian]

Then make it a player character.  I suggested a separate character because personaly I would not want the hassle of having to keep track of what is mine and what is the faction's.  As for sudden leaving of the server, that is why the person doing it would post the balance regularly, so if they left, someone else could pick up.  They can just contact a DM after a time and request the balance be transferred over to another character to fill the role.

[Ovidiu_Lacusta]

I wouldn't want it to be an alt, since that's a player that's mysteriously insulated from faction dynamics, so as has been stated, no matter what it comes down to, it's in the hands of a PC.

And that's a good thing! We can explore the moral dilemna of, abusing church funds, we keep trying to avoid this roleplay that presents possibilities!

[Dobian]

An alt character acting as the bank can be brought in for RP.  I would give such a character a background and a reason for being there.  I wouldn't be inclined to RP such a character much, they would simply be "the bank".  But if other characters wanted to do some RP with him/her, that is a possibility.  I would never instigate RP on such a character, though, like deliberately absconding with funds.  That would create conflict of interest.

[monsinyana]

if you persistent storage on something can you store gold in there?

[CuddleGutz]

I wouldn't want it to be an alt, since that's a player that's mysteriously insulated from faction dynamics, so as has been stated, no matter what it comes down to, it's in the hands of a PC.

And that's a good thing! We can explore the moral dilemna of, abusing church funds, we keep trying to avoid this roleplay that presents possibilities!

One can still embezzle from a faction bank account. And it avoids OOC complications like loss of internet or player burnout.