Opium and pre-1650CR attitudes

[Norture]

If sex and some degree of torture is against the rules. So should drugs. EDIT: It do happen to be pretty bad, worse then having sex as far as I know and not good for minors either and is a way of self torture in the end so it covers up both of these.

The only people pro drug is those who often smoke it or in another way consume it.

lol what kind of logic is this. Hey let's stop the murder while we're at it too.

[KBlackwell]

If sex and some degree of torture is against the rules. So should drugs. EDIT: It do happen to be pretty bad, worse then having sex as far as I know and not good for minors either and is a way of self torture in the end so it covers up both of these.

The only people pro drug is those who often smoke it or in another way consume it.

lol what kind of logic is this. Hey let's stop the murder while we're at it too.

My thoughts exactly.. Just looking for a more tactful way to put it.

[EberronBruce]

Depends how drugs are used.
The native Americans had peace pipes and other rituals that involved narcotics.
The native people of Peru chew on the coca leaf.
Some religions still have other practices where drugs are involved.

As far as the sex thing goes. I think it is to prevent cybering. So as far sex and romance is concerned its a black screen effect. It happens, but it is not shown or described.

Certain aspects of torture maybe more than minor could handle, and the real thing is probably more than an adult can handle. It is not what the movies portray it as.

As far as drugs. As long as it doesn't glorify drug use and it remains tactful. You don't want to glorify a meth addict's behavior of murdering people to get his fix or a woman selling herself to get her fix. Drug abuse can have a real world darkside, which you don't want a youth to get attracted to.

As far as drug abuse goes, I think it should be handle much in the same way sex is. It happens, but it is not shown in detail or really described.
A character struggling from an addiction can make a character more deep, just like someone struggling from alcoholism.

As far as a cultural and religious issue, I think it is not a problem. I have experienced a part of island pacific group of people's particular culture where they partake in some water mix with a type of root that eventually intoxicates a person. It was an interesting cultural experience.

[Ophie Kitty]

As far as drug abuse goes, I think it should be handle much in the same way sex is. It happens, but it is not shown in detail or really described.
A character struggling from an addiction can make a character more deep, just like someone struggling from alcoholism.

I agree with this statement.

[KBlackwell]

While we are voicing our opinions here, I have to say that I do not agree.  The ban on sex is currently so the server doesn't have legal trouble over exposing youth to things of a sexual nature, and so the server didn't turn into a cyber sex haven. 

The use of drugs has neither of these problems.  The server hasn't been a drug user haven, dispite years of open use, and it is not illegal for minors to see use like this.

If we start 'trimming the immorality' then the server will be no different to a faerun server.  If were going to make one damaging act 'fade to black' then we might as well make the murder and torture and violence 'fade to black' as well.

[dark_majico]

The only way it could be "less authentic" is if you're expecting it to be like the real world. So I stand by my comment. Historical accuracy is only worth a damn when it involves characters from the Gothic Earth. In any other scenario, it's not very important.

As for why it's illegal in Barovia? That has a simple, canon-friendly explanation. Hazlan grows poppies and people in Hazlan do smoke opium. The effects of smoking opium would be known to some of the more knowledgeable people in Barovia, specifically Strahd. Peasants doped up on opium don't do any work, and thus no taxes make their way to Strahd's coffers. Strahd, being a gigantic miser, does not want this under any circumstances. Thus, opium is illegal in Barovia.

But we have taken other RL Scenario and use them to make IG...Fatigue for one example we change from the Original Game. To make it more RL. I would think Strahd would rather Sell a license to Doctors for use , Tax them for the use and possible grow them as a cash crop for other Domains. Makes Gold for Barovia, Tax is involved in such and if a Doctor abuses such you can take away the license.
Besides the Server takes on a life on its own and Canon might be a good guide to go by but we have Surpassed that a while back. I would rather see it as a RP Aid then just make it Illegal.

This make more sense to me and fits better in my opinion.

No, it doesn't. Strahd is a brutal tyrant. He wouldn't want his subjects doping up for any reason, medical or otherwise. Besides, medicine is pretty primitive and backwards in Barovia anyway. They don't have physicians.

I have a hard time beleiving that Strahd actualy cares enough about the locals enough to give a damn if they dope themselves up or not, I also dont think any character would have the mentality that they must get every single gold piece they can from every subject literaly speaking, or have the inclination or mathmatical capacity, or patience, to actually try to add up the numbers and then check to make sure that they are getting the right taxes. Thats like saying Strahd has the sort of modern viewpoint that the IRS has, aswell as a computing power to attempt the task. Strahd's way of thinking would be more like...

"I made twelve thousand gold pieces this year, EXCELLENT! I must make more!! How can I do that?"...

[after 5 minutes dismisses the idea]

...."baah I will think about that tomorrow."

Of course there is allways another tomorrow for Strahd, so he never gets around to inventing the computer, because there isnt any need for him too. I agree with aprogressivist.

[Bluebomber4evr]

The only way it could be "less authentic" is if you're expecting it to be like the real world. So I stand by my comment. Historical accuracy is only worth a damn when it involves characters from the Gothic Earth. In any other scenario, it's not very important.

As for why it's illegal in Barovia? That has a simple, canon-friendly explanation. Hazlan grows poppies and people in Hazlan do smoke opium. The effects of smoking opium would be known to some of the more knowledgeable people in Barovia, specifically Strahd. Peasants doped up on opium don't do any work, and thus no taxes make their way to Strahd's coffers. Strahd, being a gigantic miser, does not want this under any circumstances. Thus, opium is illegal in Barovia.

But we have taken other RL Scenario and use them to make IG...Fatigue for one example we change from the Original Game. To make it more RL. I would think Strahd would rather Sell a license to Doctors for use , Tax them for the use and possible grow them as a cash crop for other Domains. Makes Gold for Barovia, Tax is involved in such and if a Doctor abuses such you can take away the license.
Besides the Server takes on a life on its own and Canon might be a good guide to go by but we have Surpassed that a while back. I would rather see it as a RP Aid then just make it Illegal.

This make more sense to me and fits better in my opinion.

No, it doesn't. Strahd is a brutal tyrant. He wouldn't want his subjects doping up for any reason, medical or otherwise. Besides, medicine is pretty primitive and backwards in Barovia anyway. They don't have physicians.

I have a hard time beleiving that Strahd actualy cares enough about the locals enough to give a damn if they dope themselves up or not, I also dont think any character would have the mentality that they must get every single gold piece they can from every subject literaly speaking, or have the inclination or mathmatical capacity, or patience, to actually try to add up the numbers and then check to make sure that they are getting the right taxes. Thats like saying Strahd has the sort of modern viewpoint that the IRS has, aswell as a computing power to attempt the task. Strahd's way of thinking would be more like...

"I made twelve thousand gold pieces this year, EXCELLENT! I must make more!! How can I do that?"...

[after 5 minutes dismisses the idea]

...."baah I will think about that tomorrow."

Of course there is allways another tomorrow for Strahd, so he never gets around to inventing the computer, because there isnt any need for him too. I agree with aprogressivist.

Yeah well you're wrong. Check out the first I, Strahd novel. The guy is a penny-pincher of the highest degree and always knows how much he's owed.

[EberronBruce]

While we are voicing our opinions here, I have to say that I do not agree.  The ban on sex is currently so the server doesn't have legal trouble over exposing youth to things of a sexual nature, and so the server didn't turn into a cyber sex haven. 

The use of drugs has neither of these problems.  The server hasn't been a drug user haven, dispite years of open use, and it is not illegal for minors to see use like this.

If we start 'trimming the immorality' then the server will be no different to a faerun server.  If were going to make one damaging act 'fade to black' then we might as well make the murder and torture and violence 'fade to black' as well.

Never underestimate a stupid person with a lawyer. Especially in these times. This is one of those things of cover you own butt. Unfortunately there is no way to bar children from entering the server and all you need is one parent that has a lawyer to give you enough grief. It is a problem that this community doesn't need.

I agree with you that details in drug abuse can add to a more deeper horror immersion and I can imagine a majority of the server as well; however, with that stated all you need is that one person and this entire project can go under.

I can see a good DM event where PCs have to solve a drug addiction and trafficking problem. But still need to have some what of a tread carefully approach. It is best to say X character [uses this drug] instead of the details that portray in using the drug like the preparation, needles, ect.

The reason for this is that drug addiction is very common everyday real world problem that many people face and some parents or relatives are afraid that their love ones will fall into that trap. Where as murder and torturing, even though they do exists, are not as apparent. This is a horror setting so there will be things that question and challenge morality and the meaning of sanity. Stuff that you can do at home with your buddies in the way of details may not apply to this server, I can imagine the staff is walking a thin line with some things be cause they want to immersion of the suspense and horror, but they don't want the whiplash of the nut and his lawyer. 

Just have to be careful of that one lunatic parent that wants to blame their kid's problems on someone. It is best not to be us.

[Jalthex]

While we are voicing our opinions here, I have to say that I do not agree.  The ban on sex is currently so the server doesn't have legal trouble over exposing youth to things of a sexual nature, and so the server didn't turn into a cyber sex haven. 

The use of drugs has neither of these problems.  The server hasn't been a drug user haven, dispite years of open use, and it is not illegal for minors to see use like this.

If we start 'trimming the immorality' then the server will be no different to a faerun server.  If were going to make one damaging act 'fade to black' then we might as well make the murder and torture and violence 'fade to black' as well.

Never underestimate a stupid person with a lawyer. Especially in these times. This is one of those things of cover you own butt. Unfortunately there is no way to bar children from entering the server and all you need is one parent that has a lawyer to give you enough grief. It is a problem that this community doesn't need.

I agree with you that details in drug abuse can add to a more deeper horror immersion and I can imagine a majority of the server as well; however, with that stated all you need is that one person and this entire project can go under.

I can see a good DM event where PCs have to solve a drug addiction and trafficking problem. But still need to have some what of a tread carefully approach. It is best to say X character [uses this drug] instead of the details that portray in using the drug like the preparation, needles, ect.

The reason for this is that drug addiction is very common everyday real world problem that many people face and some parents or relatives are afraid that their love ones will fall into that trap. Where as murder and torturing, even though they do exists, are not as apparent. This is a horror setting so there will be things that question and challenge morality and the meaning of sanity. Stuff that you can do at home with your buddies in the way of details may not apply to this server, I can imagine the staff is walking a thin line with some things be cause they want to immersion of the suspense and horror, but they don't want the whiplash of the nut and his lawyer. 

Just have to be careful of that one lunatic parent that wants to blame their kid's problems on someone. It is best not to be us.

"News Tonight! Mother sues online gaming server Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist, claiming 'The Dark Powers of the Demiplane of Dread got my son addicted to drugs!' Story after the break!" 

[dark_majico]

The only way it could be "less authentic" is if you're expecting it to be like the real world. So I stand by my comment. Historical accuracy is only worth a damn when it involves characters from the Gothic Earth. In any other scenario, it's not very important.

As for why it's illegal in Barovia? That has a simple, canon-friendly explanation. Hazlan grows poppies and people in Hazlan do smoke opium. The effects of smoking opium would be known to some of the more knowledgeable people in Barovia, specifically Strahd. Peasants doped up on opium don't do any work, and thus no taxes make their way to Strahd's coffers. Strahd, being a gigantic miser, does not want this under any circumstances. Thus, opium is illegal in Barovia.

But we have taken other RL Scenario and use them to make IG...Fatigue for one example we change from the Original Game. To make it more RL. I would think Strahd would rather Sell a license to Doctors for use , Tax them for the use and possible grow them as a cash crop for other Domains. Makes Gold for Barovia, Tax is involved in such and if a Doctor abuses such you can take away the license.
Besides the Server takes on a life on its own and Canon might be a good guide to go by but we have Surpassed that a while back. I would rather see it as a RP Aid then just make it Illegal.

This make more sense to me and fits better in my opinion.

No, it doesn't. Strahd is a brutal tyrant. He wouldn't want his subjects doping up for any reason, medical or otherwise. Besides, medicine is pretty primitive and backwards in Barovia anyway. They don't have physicians.

I have a hard time beleiving that Strahd actualy cares enough about the locals enough to give a damn if they dope themselves up or not, I also dont think any character would have the mentality that they must get every single gold piece they can from every subject literaly speaking, or have the inclination or mathmatical capacity, or patience, to actually try to add up the numbers and then check to make sure that they are getting the right taxes. Thats like saying Strahd has the sort of modern viewpoint that the IRS has, aswell as a computing power to attempt the task. Strahd's way of thinking would be more like...

"I made twelve thousand gold pieces this year, EXCELLENT! I must make more!! How can I do that?"...

[after 5 minutes dismisses the idea]

...."baah I will think about that tomorrow."

Of course there is allways another tomorrow for Strahd, so he never gets around to inventing the computer, because there isnt any need for him too. I agree with aprogressivist.

Yeah well you're wrong. Check out the first I, Strahd novel. The guy is a penny-pincher of the highest degree and always knows how much he's owed.

Is that I, Strahd: The Memoirs of a Vampire?

[EberronBruce]

Spoiler: show

While we are voicing our opinions here, I have to say that I do not agree.  The ban on sex is currently so the server doesn't have legal trouble over exposing youth to things of a sexual nature, and so the server didn't turn into a cyber sex haven. 

The use of drugs has neither of these problems.  The server hasn't been a drug user haven, dispite years of open use, and it is not illegal for minors to see use like this.

If we start 'trimming the immorality' then the server will be no different to a faerun server.  If were going to make one damaging act 'fade to black' then we might as well make the murder and torture and violence 'fade to black' as well.

Never underestimate a stupid person with a lawyer. Especially in these times. This is one of those things of cover you own butt. Unfortunately there is no way to bar children from entering the server and all you need is one parent that has a lawyer to give you enough grief. It is a problem that this community doesn't need.

I agree with you that details in drug abuse can add to a more deeper horror immersion and I can imagine a majority of the server as well; however, with that stated all you need is that one person and this entire project can go under.

I can see a good DM event where PCs have to solve a drug addiction and trafficking problem. But still need to have some what of a tread carefully approach. It is best to say X character [uses this drug] instead of the details that portray in using the drug like the preparation, needles, ect.

The reason for this is that drug addiction is very common everyday real world problem that many people face and some parents or relatives are afraid that their love ones will fall into that trap. Where as murder and torturing, even though they do exists, are not as apparent. This is a horror setting so there will be things that question and challenge morality and the meaning of sanity. Stuff that you can do at home with your buddies in the way of details may not apply to this server, I can imagine the staff is walking a thin line with some things be cause they want to immersion of the suspense and horror, but they don't want the whiplash of the nut and his lawyer. 

Just have to be careful of that one lunatic parent that wants to blame their kid's problems on someone. It is best not to be us.

"News Tonight! Mother sues online gaming server Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist, claiming 'The Dark Powers of the Demiplane of Dread got my son addicted to drugs!' Story after the break!" 
[/quote]

I know it sounds crazy and strange, but all you need is a nut job or two with ambition (like a new graduate law student trying to get some work). You can imagine all the stupid frivolous lawsuits that go to court, that imo, should be thrown out. Courts are expensive even if you win.   

The chances of someone going to court over it is really small, like 0.001%<-- However, there is a possibility even small.

[Budly]

If sex and some degree of torture is against the rules. So should drugs. EDIT: It do happen to be pretty bad, worse then having sex as far as I know and not good for minors either and is a way of self torture in the end so it covers up both of these.

The only people pro drug is those who often smoke it or in another way consume it.

lol what kind of logic is this. Hey let's stop the murder while we're at it too.

My thoughts exactly.. Just looking for a more tactful way to put it.

Is this not what is used as an arguement against other banned things? "Minors".

[KBlackwell]

If sex and some degree of torture is against the rules. So should drugs. EDIT: It do happen to be pretty bad, worse then having sex as far as I know and not good for minors either and is a way of self torture in the end so it covers up both of these.

The only people pro drug is those who often smoke it or in another way consume it.

lol what kind of logic is this. Hey let's stop the murder while we're at it too.

My thoughts exactly.. Just looking for a more tactful way to put it.

Is this not what is used as an arguement against other banned things? "Minors".

I think it's more of a legal problem with other things.  Drug use is not 18+ but sexual content is.

[Bluebomber4evr]

The only way it could be "less authentic" is if you're expecting it to be like the real world. So I stand by my comment. Historical accuracy is only worth a damn when it involves characters from the Gothic Earth. In any other scenario, it's not very important.

As for why it's illegal in Barovia? That has a simple, canon-friendly explanation. Hazlan grows poppies and people in Hazlan do smoke opium. The effects of smoking opium would be known to some of the more knowledgeable people in Barovia, specifically Strahd. Peasants doped up on opium don't do any work, and thus no taxes make their way to Strahd's coffers. Strahd, being a gigantic miser, does not want this under any circumstances. Thus, opium is illegal in Barovia.

But we have taken other RL Scenario and use them to make IG...Fatigue for one example we change from the Original Game. To make it more RL. I would think Strahd would rather Sell a license to Doctors for use , Tax them for the use and possible grow them as a cash crop for other Domains. Makes Gold for Barovia, Tax is involved in such and if a Doctor abuses such you can take away the license.
Besides the Server takes on a life on its own and Canon might be a good guide to go by but we have Surpassed that a while back. I would rather see it as a RP Aid then just make it Illegal.

This make more sense to me and fits better in my opinion.

No, it doesn't. Strahd is a brutal tyrant. He wouldn't want his subjects doping up for any reason, medical or otherwise. Besides, medicine is pretty primitive and backwards in Barovia anyway. They don't have physicians.

I have a hard time beleiving that Strahd actualy cares enough about the locals enough to give a damn if they dope themselves up or not, I also dont think any character would have the mentality that they must get every single gold piece they can from every subject literaly speaking, or have the inclination or mathmatical capacity, or patience, to actually try to add up the numbers and then check to make sure that they are getting the right taxes. Thats like saying Strahd has the sort of modern viewpoint that the IRS has, aswell as a computing power to attempt the task. Strahd's way of thinking would be more like...

"I made twelve thousand gold pieces this year, EXCELLENT! I must make more!! How can I do that?"...

[after 5 minutes dismisses the idea]

...."baah I will think about that tomorrow."

Of course there is allways another tomorrow for Strahd, so he never gets around to inventing the computer, because there isnt any need for him too. I agree with aprogressivist.

Yeah well you're wrong. Check out the first I, Strahd novel. The guy is a penny-pincher of the highest degree and always knows how much he's owed.

Is that I, Strahd: The Memoirs of a Vampire?

Yes. In particular chapter 2. He brutally executes a burgomaster for coming short on his taxes--and that was before he became a vampire.

[Bluebomber4evr]

If sex and some degree of torture is against the rules. So should drugs. EDIT: It do happen to be pretty bad, worse then having sex as far as I know and not good for minors either and is a way of self torture in the end so it covers up both of these.

The only people pro drug is those who often smoke it or in another way consume it.

lol what kind of logic is this. Hey let's stop the murder while we're at it too.

My thoughts exactly.. Just looking for a more tactful way to put it.

Is this not what is used as an arguement against other banned things? "Minors".

Don't be fatuous, Budly.

The reasons behind the "no cybersex" rule have been stated many times over by now. The legal reasons for it do not apply to simulated drug use.

[Corsair6500]

What if Strahd could make more money by selling the opium? He restricts all trade of it except through the Barovian government, then makes it cheaply available for a limited time. Once he's got a solid base of addicts, he ramps the prices up, basically making them work even harder to get the money for that next hit of opium, and the money they make goes right back into Strahd's pockets, a double exploitation whammy.

There's probably downsides to that plan that I'm not seeing, though.

[Norture]

What if Strahd could make more money by selling the opium? He restricts all trade of it except through the Barovian government, then makes it cheaply available for a limited time. Once he's got a solid base of addicts, he ramps the prices up, basically making them work even harder to get the money for that next hit of opium, and the money they make goes right back into Strahd's pockets, a double exploitation whammy.

There's probably downsides to that plan that I'm not seeing, though.

Yes like the productivity of the nation dropping like a rock because all of these miserable people are now opium addicts. That is the sort of thing you do to someone else's nation, not your own!

[Bluebomber4evr]

What if Strahd could make more money by selling the opium? He restricts all trade of it except through the Barovian government, then makes it cheaply available for a limited time. Once he's got a solid base of addicts, he ramps the prices up, basically making them work even harder to get the money for that next hit of opium, and the money they make goes right back into Strahd's pockets, a double exploitation whammy.

There's probably downsides to that plan that I'm not seeing, though.

Yes like the productivity of the nation dropping like a rock because all of these miserable people are now opium addicts. That is the sort of thing you do to someone else's nation, not your own!

Bingo

Norture gets +1 internets!

[Corsair6500]

Point, probably should've thought that through.

[Norture]

Bingo

Norture gets +1 internets!

Oh boy! I loved my last internet too much and it died. 

Speaking of Borca, if someone really wants to get people hooked on opium in such a manner, there is precedence for Borcans taking advantage of Barovians for financial gain. Profiteering is a Borcan passtime. The only problem is... There's not any profit in drug smuggling with how the server is set up.

[DM Erebus]

At this juncture i'd like to comment on Norture's signature and point out that the Van Richten Society doesn't have assassins.

We're the good guys right?

Right?

[Norture]

I never replied to the tell, I just sort of gaped at it going WTF. I mean, how do you reply to something like that?

[Elfric]

I never replied to the tell, I just sort of gaped at it going WTF. I mean, how do you reply to something like that?

....The Van Richten Society doesn't have assassins, do they?

[Blackthorn51]

They sure as hell do!  They sent them after Victor on ... multiple occasions.  They most certainly have employed assassins lol.

[Amon-Si]

They sure as hell do!  They sent them after Victor on ... multiple occasions.  They most certainly have employed assassins lol.

The Kinship are the good guys, and Liz was most certainly assassinating Blue Rose members! lol
Good and Evil are exactly the same in method, just with different final goals and maybe a few restrictions.
The Van Richten society are monster hunters after all and evil witches fall safely into that category.