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Author Topic: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)  (Read 2674 times)

Geiger

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Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« on: January 29, 2012, 02:40:27 PM »
Hello there everyone!

I was exploring Vallaki today and stumbled upon Houlgraves, someplace I don't often go to. (Though it is a nice little nugget.) But this time I actually decided to really look through his inventory as I'm playing a character who doesn't know much of the land's history - so naturally he went to the book store. However, I found some odd things. Considering that most of the books in there are by the this prolific author (and elf) Zecht D'Selvarine - as well as several odd books (of which I shall address each separately - I wonder exactly their purpose and their value to Barovia.

Barovia seems to very much dislike erudition - with only a privileged minority being truly educated (it's easier to suppress serfs who don't understand the value of their labor, lol). The other aspect is the general xenophobia of Barovians. (I know Houlgrave is an 'outlander' himself, but he seems like the kind of guy who'd obey the law - at least on face) It seems odd that there would be an offering of books by an actual admitted elf. Though I suppose it wouldn't be much of a bookstore if there weren't any in there - so I suppose that could be something to just give his area a point. (Unless there are books from around the core that are legal and non critical of Strahd or his boyars and burgomeisters.) I just bring this up on a general air of atmosphere and local culture - maybe making it seem more appealing for the Barovians who can/do read (and maybe making it something that if you want an odd book, you might have to meet Houlgrave after hours to pick up some of his.. 'rarities'.)

The other books that I find weird for him to have though contain gobs of info that seem copy-pasted right out of the Gazetteers or seem to be... well, kind of illegal. These are the following books I would suggest to remove/replace with something more fitting:

The Great Upheaval - This book seems to be big concept/leap to push around in Barovia. It is talking about the events that basically 'rebooted' the Ravenloft campaign setting during the transition from what I believe 2ED to 3ED. It has a lot of lore about specific people, specific events. Talks about Azalin and the Dukkar and what have you. I don't think it is appropriate for Barovia because it seems like a book that should be an actual rare find in a dungeon or in possession of some top University. It also is fairly meta, in my opinion and seems to open. It'd be great if was made more speculative and objective, rather than.. "Stuff happened and here is how it did exactly."

Marilena Cristescu's Theological Essays, Vol. I - This book is interesting and seems to criticize in game happenings between Morninglordians and Banites. Banites declaring the Morninglord faith is yet another incompatible heresy and this Cristescu woman appears to be rebuking them in theological fashion. However - my only big criticism of this book - is that it has some open criticism about Strahd and his government. It declares in a sense the Church being opposed to the Banites ideas of oppressive rule, whilst also poking at Strahd. I think it's a bit too 'enlightened' to be distributed so openly.

My last suggestion would be that maybe other sorts of things be added to his inventory to represent his collections of 'Rarities'. All he has are gemstones, which in my opinion seem a little out of place. It would be interesting for him to have some sort of collections of antiques or maybe supposed relics of heroes/historical figures. Also ink.

So to sum it up for all the people who don't want to read (and I don't blame you, this may seem nit-picky) - I feel that Houlgraves doesn't support the feel of the setting and should have his inventory fixed up to a degree. His books should be things from around the core (books about the myths and histories of other lands, that might be considered fictional/interesting to Barovians who are of a richer background). The other thing is that they should be Kosher for Barovia and not at all critical of the rule of Strahd or his government, that stuff doesn't seem like it'd fly.

Also in general I'd like to see books cost more. For some reason they all cost like 1 to 2 gp. In Barovia books may not be valued by the peasantry, but in this kind of setting and era (and a land where there is no moveable type) books would cost a lot. Hundreds, not teens of gold. (Also instituting some sort of system where you actually need to buy the books, before you can read them would be awesome - so it isn't just me -reading- their inventories, not buying them. How else is Houlgrave/any book store going to stay in business? Knowledge is meant for those who are rich enough to afford it!)

(Also I'd say that this isn't like a priority thing, I'm not crying for this to be done because it is absolutely necessary - just think if someone gets free time on the dev team...)
What are you thoughts/statements/criticisms of the above?

Vespertilio

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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2012, 03:00:56 PM »


I was exploring Vallaki today and stumbled upon Houlgraves, someplace I don't often go to. (Though it is a nice little nugget.) But this time I actually decided to really look through his inventory as I'm playing a character who doesn't know much of the land's history - so naturally he went to the book store. However, I found some odd things. Considering that most of the books in there are by the this prolific author (and elf) Zecht D'Selvarine

These books were all penned by the character of a player who has since left the server  (  http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=567  ). IC I never did understand why that one character would have so many books sold not only at Houlgraves but in the port as well. 



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Meriana

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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2012, 03:34:51 PM »
I find it a bit sad that there are few other books available for sale other than Zecht's and bawdy things in Port... Cough.
I know there are interesting rare books available, I have seen one on undead... From some undead gnome's perspective. I loved that one.

I find that, not only is the book availability a bit skewed, it also seems to be too few books IG. In the grand library in Port... Most actual readable coded books were by Zecht.

Of course, making such books might take time. I would gladly volunteer mine if found desirable. OOC, that is. I have no author characters IG.

Vespertilio

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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2012, 03:43:51 PM »
There is a faction in the port for scholars, and an artistic faction receiving some support.  While it might make sense ic for members of those organizations, who author books and write plays and so on, to have some of their works sold or part of the library, suggesting such a thingcould be seen as asking more of already plate full DMs and Devs.  Some of the Erudite authors/members have had books added to the Erudite library such as Bernard DuBourg and Dacinia Varzu I'm not sure how it is determined which members have their papers published in game.

Zook Firestarter's book is there also, though he wasn't a Erudite, his book is in their library.  It's a great book but I'm not aware of it being sold anywhere in game that pcs could actually get their hands on a copy.





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Mayvind

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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2012, 04:04:03 PM »
I find Zecht books to be nothing but clog in book system, but that just me. Dev might feel differently since it so widely spread through out domains.

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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2012, 04:12:09 PM »
We'll work on this.

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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2012, 04:12:52 PM »
From what I understand, and I might be wrong since I don't understand or know much about development aspects of the game, I've been told the books take up a lot of information and are currently saved player side? So adding more would likely not be a feasible option, unless some were taken out, and again that's probably a lot of work.



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Geiger

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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2012, 04:36:28 PM »
We'll work on this.

Now that's.. just.. Prime.

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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2012, 06:19:50 PM »
Books do take up a lot of memory when in many player's inventories, unless their text is included in the .tlk file. This was a major project we undertook about a year and a half ago, so the old books, even Zecht's, shouldn't be a problem in that regard. Adding new books is welcome, but it will have to be done when we update our hak/tlk for this very reason.

The reason there's so many Zecht books is because the player wrote a lot of them. There are other player-written books out there, but the other players were not as prolific writers.

As for the Ravenloft-specific books, such as The Great Upheaval, they're staying put. The snippets copy and pasted fall under fair use (and if someone wanted to bother us over copyright issues, there are bigger things they could go after), and the books are very informative about the history of the setting from an IC point-of-view, and they represent things almost everyone in the world would know, even backwards Barovians.

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Geiger

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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2012, 06:59:41 PM »
I didn't mean that they're illegal, as in real life - but some of those books contain information that is like.. seriously, weird to know - or in the case of Barovia, seriously, the book by Marilena calls Strahd a tyrant and criticizes his government.. The Great Upheaval almost goes the path of just going: "Dude, life is meaningless you're in a game being played by people on the internet." It just seems less an academic view of the cataclysm. (Which people actually do know about, the event shook the world and changed a lot of stuff - even backwards Barovians.) But the events that occurred just don't seem like something everyday people would know.

Some of the stuff in the abridged histories is like this as well.

I'm not saying they need to be removed, I'm just saying things like that you might want to consider editing so that there is still mystery out there, rather than something someone can just look up - without even buying the book. The books are also extremely cheap. Books should be expensive and they are not common in middle age societies for just common perusal. I suspect also that Houlgraves books would not be things he'd just let you stand in there and read and not purchase.

I'm not being a realism stickler, just some stuff out there is lame. I also am not calling out the person who made all those stories, I just think in some respects there should be only certain places they spawn, or can only be purchased in regional places. Probably like Dementlieu as it seems like that guy had a focus out that way. (Also the stories seem to reference a few other servers and their lore, Arelith/Amia and what have you. Just some weird connects.) It's really weird to find his stuff spawning under the ML crypts in the Village of Barovia, along with Barovian Times Vol. I-X, and then in the next book case you find a crippling and terrible account of Azalin Rex. It's just so.. weird.

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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2012, 07:09:47 PM »
Well we only have so many books. Like I said, we'd welcome more.

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Geiger

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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2012, 07:13:55 PM »
Well I'll try and do my part to help.

Would it be okay for me to do a few edits of those books and send them to you developer types?

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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2012, 08:57:18 PM »
We won't be changing any existing books. Feel free to write new ones, however.

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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2012, 01:23:20 AM »
The Society of Erudites is looking for non-fictional books dealing with science, history, or anything which can be practical and approached from an IC-perspective. It is also a faction. And I normally run things for them too. The University classes I'm running, where literally a lot of "What everybody knows" about the Core is told, discussed and debated, are meant to find new possible members of the Society. Feel free to contact me for that. For the physical writing of the book, the press in Dementlieu covers most of average length texts, while for very long books it's needed some DM available to work with toolset.
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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2012, 06:49:41 AM »
I love the DePenible books.
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Re: Houlgraves Books & Rarities (and spoilers!)
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2012, 12:07:59 PM »
Francois de Penible is the best NPC in Dementlieu, objectively.