Radu

[Thoraion]

I recently noticed that Radu seems to cause influence checks.
I suspect this may be due to a new system that i missed - i guess that a certain range of OCR gives a chance to prevent Radu to attack by succeeding with an influence check.
Basically, that is a nice idea.

But...
i did not check the DC for the check, but i assume that it follows the same route than anything related to Radu: unbeatable for the range of levels Vallaki is intended to be the place for. Besides "influence-builds".

Much more important is this... why influence? Yes, Radu is a very intimidating guy and influence is intended to be a way to calm him down so he does not introduce you to Mr. Hammer. But why ALWAYS influence? To give influence a broader utilization? Good! But as it is now, the reaction to Radu is forced upon the players. We have no choice besides trying to calm him down - though there are other ways to handle it. What Radu can do, also a few other characters can do - the intimidating look is not exclusive to Radu - and Radu surely is not immune to being intimidated himself.

Give it a thought please. Some choice or a more differentiated system would be welcome, so either an influence or intimidate roll depending on what has the higher ranks (and so would maybe be the more likely way of handling the situation for individual players) or - which would be more annoying, but would also be more of a warning - an auto dialogue in which one can choose which skill to use.

[HellsPanda]

Its based on your own OCR, not anything to do with Radu.
Its also all NPCs in Barovia, and its been in existance for ages

[Purist]

Honestly, let's say if you roll a successful intimidating antagonize at Radu. He then is at least "wary" of your presence, so that means he does have to let a caliban or odd looking outlander into the building? I think he'd act in self defense, frightened, threatened, but not horrified to the point of not acting. Besides, there's something that I don't like about influence is that it combines "disguise" and "the power to convince other by sweet words". Then again, you're not calming him down, you're rolling for a disguise, you're rolling to trick him. And I agree with you, the roll is too high. And there's a flaw with the influence system IMO. It just keeps rolling influence over and over, each time the DC is higher so you can never stay more than a few seconds within a NPC.

[LackofCertainty]

Honestly, let's say if you roll a successful intimidating antagonize at Radu. He then is at least "wary" of your presence, so that means he does have to let a caliban or odd looking outlander into the building? I think he'd act in self defense, frightened, threatened, but not horrified to the point of not acting. Besides, there's something that I don't like about influence is that it combines "disguise" and "the power to convince other by sweet words". Then again, you're not calming him down, you're rolling for a disguise, you're rolling to trick him. And I agree with you, the roll is too high. And there's a flaw with the influence system IMO. It just keeps rolling influence over and over, each time the DC is higher so you can never stay more than a few seconds within a NPC.

I don't feel like that's a flaw, I feel like that is the system working as intended. 

If you're a caliban with the proportions and complexion of the Incredible Hulk, then you can maybe (-maybe-) brush past someone without them noticing something is amiss.  If you stand next to them and try to have a discussion about gamma radiation, then the person will start to notice holes in your disguise.  This use of the skill is the "Oh crap, I just want to slip past this guy before he notices that I'm a green giant" version.

If you want to have a "Perfect disguise" then you need to get enough influence to where your OCR drops below the insta-agro levels. (devs have said that it's about 4 influence = -1 to your ocr)

[Thoraion]

Ah, there is another basic problem with OCR.
High OCR does not necessarily mean that you are a big, glowing, green giant. A violent reputation leads to similar high OCR, but i would expect Radu to react differently. Anyway - a high OCR always makes (barovian) NPCs suspect witchcraft. Not exactly something which furthers the RP-experience.

As for the results of intimidating Radu... he would only attack if a developer wants him to attack then. Same for intiidating PCs... they only get agressive instead of intimidated if the player can not accept that their character backs away. It could be so simple... "Shut the hell up, Radu - i just want to drink a beer and am in no mood to ruin the furniture... but if you raise that toy you call a hammer in my direction, i will shove it up your ass all the way up to your teeth, got that?"
Trouble with that? Just imagine Kayne telling that to Radu.
So not everybody is Kayne? Well, neither is anyone with a high (relatively high) OCR a big, green, glowing giant.

Disguise is another alternative to influence, though maybe harder to simulate.

Bluff?
"Oh, look, over there - an Evil-Doer!"
"Witch? Me? Surely not, you are clearly confusing me with someone else!"

Anything else?

[HellsPanda]

Its a flawed system, but its better than the complete Planescape setting we would have had without it

[Dread]

I don't like this idea all that much. The barbarian example makes sense, but what about a tiefling blackguard with an intimidate score out the wazoo? No one's going to toss him or her out if Radu doesn't. Instead they'll be overwhelmingly accepting of them, and decry anyone who isn't as being a bully. I've seen this happen time after time after time again.

The influence system isn't perfect, as HellsPanda says, but it's better than having nothing.

[LackofCertainty]

*grandpa rocking chair*

There was a time, believe it or not, when the man you know as "Radu" didn't exist in the outskirts.  It was a dark time, when monsters and roamed the lady's rest, and calibans laughed as Cezar... oh, but you youngins wouldn't know Cezar.  Have a look at the headstones behind the inn once in a while.   Anyway, there was a time when calibans would roam inside the lady's rest, and laugh and mock the barkeep as he pissed himself and ran in circles.  Repeating canned dialogue about monsters and womb-freaks. The Devs didn't like that, so they added Radu.  The next day when a Caliban tried the same trick on our poor innkeeper, he had his head turned into a reddish paste, and so a new age was born.

It is not a perfect system, but the server actually does have a perfect system in place for what you want to do with Radu.  It is called "/DM could a dm come and possess radu for me, for a bit?  I'd like to rp out a scene with him in the lady's rest."



(I probably got the order of events all mixed up, but that's what old people do.  Memory's failing and all that)

[Thani]

My OCR is 106, I'm happy enough to be able to walk around in Barovia at all.

Is there a way to decrease the distance that Radu will chase a pc though?
I know the man has balls of diamond, but come on. He kinda has a job to do. 

[Thoraion]

Yes, right - the system IS better than it was before. Which does not mean that pointing out certain things is useless, right?

The OCR, its height and why it is that high is a very different topic (in my case, it was raised from 2 to 28 due to a supposed bug - and then only lowered to 15. ... altogether different issue and OT)

[LackofCertainty]

Yes, right - the system IS better than it was before. Which does not mean that pointing out certain things is useless, right?

The OCR, its height and why it is that high is a very different topic (in my case, it was raised from 2 to 28 due to a supposed bug - and then only lowered to 15. ... altogether different issue and OT)

It is a flaw, but there is no way of designing a perfectly intelligent npc system that responds properly in every situation.  We don't have access to that sort of AI. (in fact that sort of AI doesn't exist)

What we do have, is a system that functions as a "Do not ignore these npc's or you will get your head caved in."  It generalizes all of the reasons an npc guard would want to cave your skull in, into a handy-dandy stat called OCR.  If you want to rp out a specific scenario with an npc that goes beyond that, then you ask a DM to possess them.   The devs could make a system of 10,000 variables that stored every possible way that people can piss off the natives enough to cause them to want to kill you, but that's not practical, in my opinion.  I feel like that system we have works pretty well.  It's not 100% perfect, but it gets the job done without actively setting the server on fire, so I give it a thumbs up.


The only way to get perfect NPC behavior, would be to completely remove the npc's from the server and have a player stand in for them 24 hours a day.  Clearly that's not doable, so we make do with what we have.

Pointing out flaws in a system isn't useless, but I think that everyone is pretty well acquainted with the shortcomings of the system.  If all you're doing is pointing out flaws without offering up any realistic solutions, then its not really useful feedback anymore, is it?



Back to the OP, the reason why I don't see antagonize working, is that the lady's rest is within shouting distance of vallaki.  If you try to intimidate Radu that you'll grind his bones to make your bread, then he would probably just shout for the guards and get ready to fend you off till they arrived. (or more likely he'd step inside and bar the door till the guards got there)   If you want to do something like that, you're perfectly welcome to, just get a DM to possess radu for you so that he can respond properly to the situation.  That is one of the server rules.  If you want to browbeat Radu, you can, just get a DM.  If you want to run through vallaki during the day eating every barovian child you can catch while the guards track you down, you can, just get a DM first.

[primaloath]

The devs could make a system of 10,000 variables that stored every possible way that people can piss off the natives enough to cause them to want to kill you, but that's not practical, in my opinion.

* Violent crime (e.g. assault, murder)
* Non-violent crime (e.g. trespassing, theft, burglary)
* Witchcraft
* Disobedience (e.g. refusing to cooperate with the garda, supporting lawbreakers)
* Being a certain race

These are only five variables and they seem to cover everything. Am I missing anything?

[Jeebs]

The problem is, however, the more things the server has to cross-check every time it triggers something like this is that it will cause more lag. I do like the idea, though. Not sure about using antagonize without a DM though, as all the counterpoints to it are very valid.

[Purist]

The whole influence check system has something that bugs me. It rolls a few times in a row, so if you first succeed a roll, 2 seconds later you may fail one. Maybe the rolls should be turn or even rounds based. The dices always raise, which is natural, but the pace of the checks is just too randomly fast.

[Jeebs]

The whole influence check system has something that bugs me. It rolls a few times in a row, so if you first succeed a roll, 2 seconds later you may fail one. Maybe the rolls should be turn or even rounds based. The dices always raise, which is natural, but the pace of the checks is just too randomly fast.

It's probably linked to the On-Heartbeat function... which fires every 6 seconds.

[Purist]

Definitively not 6 seconds of interval. Less for certain.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

The multiple rolls is likely because you run into several NPCs and they each get a roll. Every 6 seconds is perhaps a bit too much though, it might be more fitting having it 1 roll per turn (minute). I don't think it's a bad thing if outcasts move about the city as long as they do what they can to conceal their identity and it remains somewhat risky. I imagine it being likely to generate more roleplay that way.

[Ercvadasz]

The multiple rolls is likely because you run into several NPCs and they each get a roll. Every 6 seconds is perhaps a bit too much though, it might be more fitting having it 1 roll per turn (minute). I don't think it's a bad thing if outcasts move about the city as long as they do what they can to conceal their identity and it remains somewhat risky. I imagine it being likely to generate more roleplay that way.

Actally not, it is not linked towards how many NPC-s see you. You advance Radu, you roll likely at least 2-3-4 etc. rolls.
I think it is the distance that matters, and may be an issue with lagg.
As i experienced, i walk towards radu, first i roll one  with a dc, than another one which is allways higher, if i am closer to him.
The same has happened inside the village as well.
If you walk towards NPC-s they will start rolling, first when they catch a glimpse of you, second when you step 3 ahead or so, because you are going towards them:)

[EberronBruce]

Should have a walk around the village like you do around Vallaki. Issue is that the guards spawn right on transition points so you cant avoid them.