Mining, ingots and commerce.

[Badelaire]

Just a simple idea but perhaps a good one for fledgling smiths and PC's starting out. The ability to redeem whole ingots of metal of varying value for money to an artificer, such as one in Krofburg or Dvergheim much like the delivery and bounties that earns you a small sum of gold and experience.

[Nemien Callishan]

Or perhaps some instructions so fledgling smiths would learn the correct ammounts to mix to make bronze and steel because there really is no information available unless a generous player tells you.

[respawnaholic]

Or perhaps some instructions so fledgling smiths would learn the correct ammounts to mix to make bronze and steel because there really is no information available unless a generous player tells you.

Thats true of leatherworking too. I eventually found out by searching on the forums and found an old topic about something else where the ammounts were mentioned in passing.

For that matter Vallaki has a bookstore. It would be nice to actually have some useful "how to" books in the bookstore for budding masons, alchemists, herbalists, ammounts needed, variations of recipes, etc.

[herkles]

@respawnaholic: I think having books on how to do the various crafts would be quite helpful, but I dissagree with it being in vallaki or anywhere else in Barovia. Barovia is known for being a place where reading and writing is rare, the avarage person can not read in barovia and are illiterate. On the other hand places like Hazlan and Dementlieu prize learning and being able to read and write so having the books in those locals would probaly be better.

[respawnaholic]

@respawnaholic: I think having books on how to do the various crafts would be quite helpful, but I dissagree with it being in vallaki or anywhere else in Barovia. Barovia is known for being a place where reading and writing is rare, the avarage person can not read in barovia and are illiterate. On the other hand places like Hazlan and Dementlieu prize learning and being able to read and write so having the books in those locals would probaly be better.

Not disagreeing about the rarity of literacy in Barovia, but Vallaki DOES have a bookstore so presumably someone in Vallaki can read. As for what places should have access to said books I could rationalise said books being in Vallaki for the reason that most people in Vallaki, like you pointed out, would be illiterate, and tend to be hard working peasant types. The types of books a city like Vallaki would have would tend towards concrete trades and how to books rather than books on history or poetry which would serve less of a concrete function.

[Springer]

I d say leatherwork and smithing books are fine to be in Vallaki, while herbalism, alchemy, enchanting, gilding and whatnot should not be there.
After all, some people in Vallaki can read (heh even most of the guard PCs can read and write I assume).

[Aahz]

@respawnaholic: I think having books on how to do the various crafts would be quite helpful, but I dissagree with it being in vallaki or anywhere else in Barovia. Barovia is known for being a place where reading and writing is rare, the avarage person can not read in barovia and are illiterate. On the other hand places like Hazlan and Dementlieu prize learning and being able to read and write so having the books in those locals would probaly be better.

Yet Vallaki does have a rather large and fancy bookstore.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Nobles can read, but you'd never get them to smelt ore, let alone enter a smithy

[herkles]

Nobles can read, but you'd never get them to smelt ore, let alone enter a smithy

However, the poor people in Dementlieu can read, this includes craftsmen, artisans, and so forth. The noblity of course would have a better grasp of the language and writing, and be more literate then the poor but literacy is something most have in dementlieu.

I do not know enough about Hazlan, but I figure that the mulani would be literate and they would be wlling to do enchantment, alchemy and herbalism I imagine.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Yet, the concept of reading a book to learn a handicraft is historically quite new. It'll probably be more fitting to learn through an NPC if you don't feel like seeking out another PC.

[MadMage99]

Or PC master craftsmen can make use of the paper, quil, and printing press in Demu and write their own guides. We have the tools. use 'em.

[herkles]

Or PC master craftsmen can make use of the paper, quil, and printing press in Demu and write their own guides. We have the tools. use 'em.

the problem here madmage, is the word limitation. It is quite small, so you would need say lots and lots of pages, that might not be conductive. There does exist writeable books that are a bit longer, that could work for this sort of thing. Or one could ask the DMs.

Yet, the concept of reading a book to learn a handicraft is historically quite new. It'll probably be more fitting to learn through an NPC if you don't feel like seeking out another PC.

That is quite true, though I still think that finding books, including some incomplete ones in dementlieu would make sense for that domain as it is an enlightment age domain. However for Barovians and Barovia you are totally right. I think some NPC that teaches the first few basics would be good. Nothing major but still something to get started at.

[Badelaire]

So yeah, back on my original idea...

[HellsPanda]

I like the idea of finding alternative ways for Natives to earn money ICly, without having to go dungeon happy.

As for the books, I think Master PCs should do this, but instead of writing a whole book, what of writing recipies?

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

So yeah, back on my original idea...

You are right, sorry.

It should be fairly easy to expand the supply system with this, but have to look at it more. Got it noted

[APorg]

What would be really cool would be a way to facilitate a proper market. A way to encourage the separation of tasks. I've always found it odd that a smith has to also become a miner if he wants to learn his craft, largely because they're the only ones who are motivated to go get the stuff.

Other PCs won't become miners in any kind of reliable way, because the value of ore and ingots is intangible and transient, measured speculatively by Crafting XP gains and the resellability of Crafted items, rather than having a "hard" market value. This is not very realistic: such items as ore and ingots should have a "hard" market value.

I think the idea of having a smith NPC give a PC gold (but perhaps not XP... I think this should be a purely mercantile bonus)  for delivering ore or ingots is a great idea, but why not expand that logic one step further up the supply chain? Why not have the smith NPCs then resell those ingots, with presumably a significant resale cost attached (middlemen have to make a living too!)?

In that sense, it would be a matter of turning all Smith NPCs into merchants that buy and resell ore and ingots, then adjusting the value of ore and ingots carefully to balance the incentives correctly.

Such a NPC-supported market would do two things:

* It would put an actual Gold value on ore and ingots, thus proving to PCs that a potential market is viable, as is a potential mining career..

* If a PC-driven market collapses (due to player attrition or whatever), it provides a back-up and a substitute.

As long as the NPCs make the resold ingots expensive enough, this will not dissuade PCs from networking: it's still in their interests to come together to "cut out the middleman" and get their ingots cheaper.

[Nemien Callishan]

Yet, the concept of reading a book to learn a handicraft is historically quite new.

It is indeed.

It'll probably be more fitting to learn through an NPC if you don't feel like seeking out another PC.

And that, unfortunately, could involve trawling through reams of conversation again and again to remind yourself of something from months ago whereas a book with the simple scrolbar on the side of the description would be so much easier. My dwarf, Durak, has actualy considered writing a book on the art of the forge but because the exact mixes for some metals kept changing recently he hasn't bothered. That, and the fact that he doesn't know any native languages.

[LackofCertainty]

Obviously what we need is a stolen journal from a respected smith. 

A "reporter" ended up "finding" the journal "out on the road" and decided that the best way to "locate the owner" was to make duplicates of it and sell them off to the highest bidder. 

[NightShadow]

Now, I'm new and have only a faint grasp on the crafting systems, so some of what I say may be wrong, but..

I think it would be nice if we could go to any crafting NPC (such as those in the Warehouse District) with a crafted item, and have them tell us how it was made, for a price, which goes from what it was mined/harvested from, how it was smelted, refined, etc., and just goes through the whole process of making it. The problem being that you have to pay for the service and have the item on hand. This would be possible for just about all basic weapons (steel swords and the such) at these craftsmen. For more advanced weapons, one would either have to go to a master craftsman PC, or find an NPC somewhere on the server who excels at his craft.

Perhaps adding a recipe shop to some craftsmen, which when bought, will negate the -5 penalty to trying new recipes (at least, I think that's what the -5 is for...), and perhaps grant some crafting experience.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Toward the original idea, I'm going to implement more things into the supply system already in place at the cargo masters office (bronze swords, daggers, ingots). It's really the easiest way to get about it, and it makes good sense too.

Paying NPCs for mentoring isn't a bad idea, but it takes a bit more work to set up. Got it noted.

[andrew_novak]

cool.  very cool.  may i ask that just for rp two of those items be healing potions and arrows.  the guards would get their supplies from the cargo master after all and they would need refills each shift.