Author Topic: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP  (Read 6107 times)

APorg

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Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« on: January 11, 2012, 11:54:29 AM »
As a follow on from this topic:

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=26628.msg327338#msg327338

I'll state my own preferences up front.

I re-bought NWN specifically to play here on POTM. I did not buy it to play NWN (although that is a nice bonus). I bought it to play Ravenloft in a DnD setting.

Therefore, from my point of view, every change that brings the NWN game closer to the DnD rules is good as long as it is done in an aesthetic and smoothly-designed manner.

That is why I agree with and like most of the changes made by the Devs; not because I'm a mindless sycophant who's parroting approval, but because their design philosophy is what attracted me to this server in the first place.

The argument that they couldn't and therefore shouldn't even try to mod NWN closer to PnP is entirely hollow, as witnessed by the fact that many of us are happy with the changes even if some people are not. I do not claim to know the limits of design that would allow an elegant PnP platform to be made of NWN, but then I trust most of the devs to listen to criticism when it accepts the premise of their design objective.

And this is it in a nutshell: some posters, like Aahz, don't accept the premise of this design objective, and then are angry or disappointed because they feel their criticism falls on deaf ears. Dudes, this is pretty simple. If I hold a party at my house on the theme of Hawaiian Pizza Night, anyone bitching at the party about how ham and pineapple were never meant to be together in the same dish is kinda missing the point of the gathering.

Nobody is forcing anyone to like what's on offer... but if it's clear that the purpose of this site is to serve one particular flavour of DnD and that many people like it, but you don't, then why are you here?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 11:58:42 AM by aprogressivist »
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Heretic

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2012, 11:57:56 AM »
 :thumbup:

Little Lotte

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2012, 11:59:35 AM »
+1

Avatar6666

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2012, 01:29:46 PM »
Nobody is forcing anyone to like what's on offer... but if it's clear that the purpose of this site is to serve one particular flavour of DnD and that many people like it, but you don't, then why are you here?

This is the Reason i left. I was not having fun and its suppose to be a game where you have fun. I went somewhere else and i am having fun. Enough said.


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No evil shall escape my sight
Let those who worship evil’s might,
Beware my power… Green Lantern’s light!â€Â

DM Erebus

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2012, 01:50:45 PM »
HAVE FUN BYE

HellsPanda

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2012, 01:58:30 PM »
I wish you all the fun in the world, mister Ivar

Avatar6666

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2012, 02:33:05 PM »
Thanks Guys and Galls!!  :D :D


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VeeTpl

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2012, 02:37:18 PM »
I have to say... I have played on quite a number of servers - mostly Polish ones - but Ravenloft is the one finally putting emphasis on immersion and RolePlay.

Other big servers names I won't mention, although holding a deserved seal of quality to them, felt too much as a playground for both major types - powerplayers and roleplayers.
Ravenloft mainly addresses the latter, while creating an environment in which the first group might test itself against the horrors of this setting.


And this is purely the reason why I shall stay here for longer. As OP, I don't longer play NWN for the sake of playing the game. It became a natural connection with Persistent Worlds, RolePlaying my characters with others and in generally, also a way to express your creativity. To the point, I actually prefer RPing way more in NWN than classic gamesessions (I both played played and DM'd; Warhammer Fantasy 2nd edition mostly).

I'd just like to say THANK YOU once again, creators of this fine server. You achieved something that I never experienced on any other server. And I hope I won't. Because I feel happy here. =)
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Kagetora

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2012, 11:36:58 PM »
Should NWN in ganeral, and PotM in particular, be modified to make it more like PnP?  The answer to that is...it depends.  Remember one thing...no matter how much coding you do, no matter how much time you invest in modifying the rules, NWN will NEVER be PnP, for one simple reason...its a computer game with dozens of players and no DM.

Yes.  I know there are DM's.  They do an EXCELLENT job running adventures and plots and such.  But there is no "DM."  PnP works because one person is making decisions that affect a small group of players.  He or she knows the players' classes, levels, skills, abilities, items, etc. etc. etc.  He or she tailors adventures to these players and all of those things I mentioned.  The pace of the game is dictated by the interaction between player and DM.  If the DM screws something up and realizes "whoa...this thing will wipe the party out," or "meh...this won't even be a challenge," they can alter it on the fly with no consequences but better fun.  A good DM does not simply roll some dice and have a random encounter kill the group.

Yet...that is EXACTLY what happens in a computer game.  The "DM" is an unthinking, unfeeling bit of code programmed to do very specific things with no regards to scaling, consequences, etc.  It simply generates a pre-coded area, spawns in pre-coded monsters with pre-coded treasure, and kills whatever wanders by.  Nothing gets altered because you are too low level, exhausted, out of spells, too powerful, have too good of equipment, or for any other factor.  Because of this, and because the action is LIVE, with no chance to pause, think, rewind, fast-forward, or anything else, NWN will NEVER be like PnP.  If you think it will, you are fooling yourself.

Because of this, there is a limited amount of room to make NWN like PnP.  And, in fact, many, many things about NWN are NOTHING like PnP, because it is only BASED on the PnP rules.  It is still a computer game.  As another point of fact, a lot of changes have been made moving NWN and PotM AWAY from PnP (such as spell durations, damage, extra Feats, etc.).  Moving towards PnP rules is not always a good idea, especially not for the sake of simply doing so.

Personally, I would like to see a lot more transparency in the whole process.  I would like to see changes, and reasons behind them, spelled out a bit more explicitly.  Why?  Because it helps me make an informed decision as to whether or not I find a change acceptable, and whether or not I wish to continue playing, or if perhaps I am simply not having fun like I used to.

Tell us the reasons behind the changes...even if its not a good reason.  If you TELL me you are changing something to make the game harder/more challenging, so be it.  If the change is to encourage RP, so be it.  Explain why.  If the change is simply for the sake of bringing something more in line with PnP, so be it.  But have the decency and the balls to TELL us.  If we don't like it, be prepared for complaints.  Perhaps even people leaving.  But you might also have people appreciate the very fact that they are treated at least partially like adults, and who might be more accepting of such changes.

It really isn't all that much to ask.

Amon-Si

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2012, 12:05:35 AM »
A good DM does not simply roll some dice and have a random encounter kill the group.
Yet...that is EXACTLY what happens in a computer game.

There are no random encounters on the server that aren't DM run :)

Now, I feel like I've been doing a lot of naysaying and shooting down of critics lately, but I'm really a devils advocate kinda guy lol, so i will say that putting in a little note for the reasons behind changes would really help a lot of people and is a great idea, it would also reduce the instance of complaint and query threads.

Now usually
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I'm a mindless sycophant who's parroting approval
and will probably continue to be so because my love and loyalty to the server can reach creepy extremes sometimes, but I do try to be as objective as possible :)

Personally, I don't mind wether we are NWN or PnP, as long as I get to make a persona and see how they act and react with other personas created by other people.

Kagetora

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2012, 12:41:58 AM »
A good DM does not simply roll some dice and have a random encounter kill the group.
Yet...that is EXACTLY what happens in a computer game.

There are no random encounters on the server that aren't DM run :)

Splitting hairs.  You know what I mean, I am sure...nothing is human supervised, its all computer automated.  The encounters themselves are not "random," in that you will always find the same basic monsters in the same area...although their power level can vary dramatically over time.

OTOH, the "random" number generator here isn't random either.   :P

Bato

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2012, 01:49:24 AM »
Rolling four fives in a row is random!
I knows, I's seen it!

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2012, 04:10:37 AM »
Kagetora, what change have we ever refused to explain why we did? In fact, isn't the topic here to discuss the design philosophy that is the reasoning behind most changes?

The point that we've changed spells in ways that made it less like DnD is a straw man argument, which I already pointed out last time you brought it up. Changes to summoning spell durations, raising dead requiring diamonds, greater magic weapon scaling etc. etc. is, if you bothered to read the 3.5 rules, only bringing it closer to DnD.

It isn't DnD that is the important though, but the roleplay. We want to build a world that naturally invites to, fosters, and serves as the perfect stage for roleplay. Whether this attempt has been, and continues to be, futile and a failure is up to the individual to assess. It will always be a matter of the various subjective opinions - how people experience it.

Some may not find it working for them. But it's immensely tiring to have people to proclaim it utopian simply because it doesn't work for them. The argument that some things just cannot be done in a computer game is in that regard pointless. This topic, the statements from the majority of the community and the continued activity on the server is a testament to the fact that it works for quite many people.
 
I'm sorry if doesn't work for some of you, but you just can't please everyone. We made this server with a clear vision of what we wanted it to be and we've remained true to that through the years. It defines the server. Even if you cannot agree to that definition, please at least respect it. No one is forcing anyone to stay - it's entirely your choice if you want to play here. But if you do, you have to accept it for what it is. That is the terms.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 05:06:17 AM by Zarathustra217 »

HellsPanda

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2012, 04:30:54 AM »
I will now say some words that where immortalised by our very own H:


   This server isn't for everyone, and if you don't like it you can move along.



And even if thats true, I doubt you will find a server out there who does more to accomodate as many playstyles and personalities as Soren and the staff do here.
If they truly did not like people who disagreed with them at all, I highly doubt I would be welcome here at all considering parts of my history on the server, and I believe many other players would have been banned ages ago. Our staff is very forgiving, very very forgiving, annoyingly so sometimes

Emomina

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2012, 04:46:06 AM »
The server has worked wonders for my personal experiences here,  and in times it gave me less than desirable, it was always my own failures.
I might have a bone to pick every now and then, but in years of playing here I have only 3-4 times spoken against something.  All in all, I consider that to be an amazing ratio.
And the very last thing I would ever have negative to say about PotM is the staff's vision for what it should be. Its probably my very favorite thing about the server.

And like the OP, I found this very forum years ago, which after reading a bit about prompted me to buy NWN, and I have only ever used it to play PotM.
Sometimes, not having the idea of what is vanilla in NWN makes one easier to adapt to something different. There is no baseline for comparison.
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Kagetora

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2012, 09:36:05 AM »
The point that we've changed spells in ways that made it less like DnD is a straw man argument, which I already pointed out last time you brought it up. Changes to summoning spell durations, raising dead requiring diamonds, greater magic weapon scaling etc. etc. is, if you bothered to read the 3.5 rules, only bringing it closer to DnD.

I appreciate the response, and will address it in its entireity when I get home from work.  But before I go to work, I would like to address the above statement.

Such an assertion on my part is NOT a "straw man argument," as you say.  I did not make an informal/intentional fallacy to misrepresent your position.  I pointed out the VERY pertinent fact that, when it suits your purposes, you make changes to diverge from PnP as opposed to converge with it.  As this topic is about just that, this is in no way an invalid point.  Quite the opposite, actually.  It reinforces the point that, in the medium of computer gaming, converging as closely as possible with PnP is not the "Holy Grail," or always the best or most appropriate direction.  Again, reinforcing the point that they are entirely different from one another, and should be treated as such.

And as far as "Take it our way or piss off," it is this attitude, more than ANY change made to the game, that annoys me the most.  ANY dissenting opinion is shouted down on these boards, typically by a few simpering sycophants.  If you don't like it, leave, but whatever you do, don't speak up or out.  Its not the changes to the game that will make people leave...its the fact that they cannot voice a dissenting opinion against something they don't agree with.  And it always, ALWAYS comes back to "our way or the highway.  Bye."  Pure, unabashed snobbery.

Finally, as a side note..."We changed this to encourage RP" is NOT an explanation.  Its an excuse.  An explanation would include, well, an explanation of how it does so.  That is not always forthcoming.  Or, again, if someone disagrees that "better RP" will be the end result, well, see the preceeding paragraph.

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2012, 10:24:38 AM »
The point that we've changed spells in ways that made it less like DnD is a straw man argument, which I already pointed out last time you brought it up. Changes to summoning spell durations, raising dead requiring diamonds, greater magic weapon scaling etc. etc. is, if you bothered to read the 3.5 rules, only bringing it closer to DnD.

I appreciate the response, and will address it in its entireity when I get home from work.  But before I go to work, I would like to address the above statement.

Such an assertion on my part is NOT a "straw man argument," as you say.  I did not make an informal/intentional fallacy to misrepresent your position.  I pointed out the VERY pertinent fact that, when it suits your purposes, you make changes to diverge from PnP as opposed to converge with it.

You mentioned changes to spells, damage and the extra feats. Of the changes we've made to these things, far the majority of changes have moved it closer to the PnP rules - only the latter really diverge.

As this topic is about just that, this is in no way an invalid point.  Quite the opposite, actually.  It reinforces the point that, in the medium of computer gaming, converging as closely as possible with PnP is not the "Holy Grail," or always the best or most appropriate direction.  Again, reinforcing the point that they are entirely different from one another, and should be treated as such.

But isn't that just a subjective opinion? That we shouldn't try to make it more like PnP? I don't see any real argument made by just declaring that NWN is a computer game - which is why it has become so tiresome to have repeated again and again as just that, used to argue against just about any change. You are entitled to your opinion of course as we are entitled to ours, but it seems like some just can't accept that we disagree, since they time and time again point out their opinion as being the "one truth" about what computer games can and can't be.

Saying that our idea of what can be achieved by a computer game won't work is saying that the server's essential purpose won't work. What I'm trying to point out is that this is an entirely subjective opinion. It is a matter of subjective experience. If it doesn't work for you, we're sorry, but it can't make us change what we are about. Continually insisting on being upset about that is pointless and a waste of time and energy for all of us.

And as far as "Take it our way or piss off," it is this attitude, more than ANY change made to the game, that annoys me the most.  ANY dissenting opinion is shouted down on these boards, typically by a few simpering sycophants.  If you don't like it, leave, but whatever you do, don't speak up or out.  Its not the changes to the game that will make people leave...its the fact that they cannot voice a dissenting opinion against something they don't agree with.  And it always, ALWAYS comes back to "our way or the highway.  Bye."  Pure, unabashed snobbery.

See above. We are always open to discuss all changes, but it's pointless to discuss whether or not the central purpose of the server is utopian and a failure. But it's really not just that - the "dissenting opinion" is only spoken this much out against when it's further being presented as the one god-given truth in bitterness or a rage. It's not because we cannot tolerate that people disagree - it's that some people consistently refuse to tolerate that we have a differing idea of how things are and that we are pursuing that idea.

Finally, as a side note..."We changed this to encourage RP" is NOT an explanation.  Its an excuse.  An explanation would include, well, an explanation of how it does so.  That is not always forthcoming.  Or, again, if someone disagrees that "better RP" will be the end result, well, see the preceeding paragraph.

It's not an excuse. It's the driving factor. But we are not shy on elaborating on it either - we always participate in the discussions about changes where the reasoning is made more clear. Can you mention any change at all where this hasn't been the case?

« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 10:43:37 AM by Zarathustra217 »

Avatar6666

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2012, 02:33:13 PM »

See above. We are always open to discuss all changes, but it's pointless to discuss whether or not the central purpose of the server is utopian and a failure. But it's really not just that - the "dissenting opinion" is only spoken this much out against when it's further being presented as the one god-given truth in bitterness or a rage. It's not because we cannot tolerate that people disagree - it's that some people consistently refuse to tolerate that we have a differing idea of how things are and that we are pursuing that idea.

I am sorry but i disagree if you opinion differrs from someone else on the staff it almost always starts an argument and that argument always ends with If you dont like it leave. I have seen this happen alot.


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HoshaZilo

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2012, 05:52:27 PM »
They only change I've seen that has actually angered me is the Familiar revive change, I read through the discussion, seeing that my opinion had already been stated, and a suggestion that I wanted to make was made, and a few days later I log on and see my suggestion was made into the game, (the reduction of the price of the raise to make it easier for lower levels)

LackofCertainty

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2012, 05:54:32 PM »
The "if you don't like it, leave" thing sounds gruff and to the point, because the staff is trying to be gruff and to the point.  If you want the flowery, politically correct version, it'd be something like this.

"The staff at PotM has a specific ideal for how they want the server to feel and play.  We are open to suggestions, but at the end of the day it would be impossible for us to please all of the people all of the time.  If you feel that this server isn't a place where you can enjoy yourself, that is unfortunate, but in the end balance/system/atmosphere decisions are made by the dev team.  If you ever find that you don't enjoy playing on our server, then there would be no reason for you to stay around, because this is a game and exists for entertainment.  The PotM staff wishes you well for where ever you decide to spend your free time."

However, that takes a lot longer to type out than "If you don't like it, leave"  Maybe that causes some misconceptions, but really I think we're all (or at least most of us are) adults here.  Do you need it sugar coated, or do you want the dev team to waste your time with frilly words that boil down to the same thing?

The dev team isn't saying they ignore suggestions, and they aren't saying that your thoughts don't matter.  They are saying that this is their party, and it is their rules.  If you're not having fun, then there's no reason for you to be here.  The sense of entitlement that some people get is ridiculous.  The staff here is providing you with content free of charge.  Where do people get off thinking that the staff is somehow obliged to ignore their own wants/feelings about the server and somehow make it perfectly catered to some random person online?  You can ask for them to listen to your idea, but expecting something more than that is childish.


Dusk

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2012, 05:59:11 PM »
I try to refrain from heavily opinionated topics, but there are a few things I'd like to address.

First of all, I've lurked around these forums over a year before I started playing - I registered early 2010. Aims and intents aside, I have grown to respect the staff here in that they seem more than ready to state their reasoning behind changes and their opinions regarding community issues. In the old server I played on, it was not uncommon, quite the opposite, for the owner to reply to even well-thought out propositions with a single word or sentence. This irritated me to no end. Here, however, I often see both respectful and reasonable responses to topic regarding changes, or topics such as this one.

This brings me to transparency. I have no complaints with the transparency here, because, in my experience, I found that no matter how transparent reasonings were made, there were always a few complaints still, either because something wasn't elaborated enough or because the change was vehemently opposed. In the end, it seemed as if transparency short of allowing everyone to view staff discussion in their entirety was largely ineffective. Thus, the only thing I ask is that if a valid question or concern is raised regarding a change, it be addressed by a staff member. I have continuously seen this be the case on these forums, so I have no complaints regarding how this is handled here.

Next is this:

Quote
And as far as "Take it our way or piss off," it is this attitude, more than ANY change made to the game, that annoys me the most.  ANY dissenting opinion is shouted down on these boards, typically by a few simpering sycophants.  If you don't like it, leave, but whatever you do, don't speak up or out.  Its not the changes to the game that will make people leave...its the fact that they cannot voice a dissenting opinion against something they don't agree with.  And it always, ALWAYS comes back to "our way or the highway.  Bye."  Pure, unabashed snobbery.

I see this as entirely subjective, a view that quite frankly saddens me to see, because all I can claim is that it is not true for me. I don't even see it snobbish to play the "our way or the highway" card. Not every change will be supported by every player, and when heated debate boils down to reiterating points with an increasingly personal tone, what more is there to say than, "Look, if you don't like it this much, why are you still here?" Along with simpering sycophants, there are all-out antagonists who oppose every change and appear to take an almost Spartan attitude with the staff. I say this without pointing fingers, but if someone really wants me to dig up at least one response to support this claim, I will. And with these antagonists, it is more than reasonable to ask why they are still here, or take a firm stance and simply state, "This is the way it's going to be." It eludes me as to why this has become such a seemingly personal issue. Sometimes it is exactly as Soren said, someone simply is unable to come to terms with a change, or the reasonings behind it.

Perhaps saying this makes me a sycophant. I really couldn't care less if I am given that title, because my views on matters aside, the fact this community is still as strong as it is today is a solid testament to the effectiveness of the methods utilized by the staff here.

Anyway, two replies came in while I was typing this, and LackofCertainty pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter completely. Given the example HoshaZilla gave, and others I can also cite if requested, it is clearly evident the staff listens to the players when reasonable suggestions for improvements are made and agreed upon. As already stated, asking for more is both selfish and childish.

Dobian

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2012, 06:46:56 PM »
It's already been pretty much said above, but whenever there is a big change on this server, some people aren't going to like it.  I didn't like the animal raise business for specific reasons, but the DMs gave their reasons for doing it, and while my opinion differs, I respect that.  I personally haven't ever gotten a "my way or the highway" feel here.  I just accept that it's a big community and everything isn't going to be exactly the way I personally want it. 


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Strigoi

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2012, 07:15:42 PM »
i think for some people they cant get out of the usual "gaming mentality" that any long term computer gamer is used to. the Gaming industry has a certain platform they use for most every game out there (grind grind level grind grind level etc...), one that we have all been trained to expect from any game. so coming to POTM you have to reverse what you have learned and adapt to a "true" roleplaying game. the conflict arises when some people choose to resist this necessary change, and they fight it both on the forums and in the game.

was a bit of a challenge for me at first, but after the first month here on POTM i quickly adapted. luckily my needs are very low here, i log on potm for the RP and story, so my characters dont go out soloing constantly, in fact if i feel the urge to go back to that style of gaming, i play another game entirely like skyrim or DC Universe Online.

The truth is there is no game like POTM, it is unique and the closest thing that comes to PnP role play. thats why i play here, and why i will continue playing here.

APorg

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2012, 08:01:43 PM »
And as far as "Take it our way or piss off," it is this attitude, more than ANY change made to the game, that annoys me the most.  ANY dissenting opinion is shouted down on these boards, typically by a few simpering sycophants.  If you don't like it, leave, but whatever you do, don't speak up or out.  Its not the changes to the game that will make people leave...its the fact that they cannot voice a dissenting opinion against something they don't agree with.  And it always, ALWAYS comes back to "our way or the highway.  Bye."  Pure, unabashed snobbery.

The "like it or piss off" is the end result of a frustrated dialogue from both sides. Accusing the other side of not listening is a prevalent hypocrisy in many debates, especially online.
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

Kagetora

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Re: Design Philosophy: NWN vs. PnP
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2012, 10:19:14 PM »
It's not an excuse. It's the driving factor. But we are not shy on elaborating on it either - we always participate in the discussions about changes where the reasoning is made more clear. Can you mention any change at all where this hasn't been the case?

Sure.  Lets go back to just the recent Changelog.

- Revised the treasure setup of the Sullen Woods.  Why was this done?  Because a couple of people complained on here the loot was too good?  Also, why was it done the WAY it was done (i.e. completely removing the 3/4ths of the loot) as opposed to simply lowering the value in the loot tables?  I have no idea.  None.

- Removed Greater Restoration scroll from Arja's stock.  Same questions.  Hell, I don't even know who Arja is.  Still curious as to why this change was made.

- Made it so that it badly impaired/wounded corpse prevents respawning.  Same questions.  I again have no idea why this change was implemented.

- Fixed familiar and animal companion raising to depend on associated class level of owner rather than the total HD.  What does this even mean?  How does it differ from the original system put in place?  Why do I have to go out and get my familiar killed in order to find out?

There's four examples from the last month that I have/had no idea whatsoever about how they were implemented, why, etc.  Shall we go back further in the lists?  or is this enough to prove the point?

In reality, as I stated, it is less the changes made to the game and more the attitudes on the forums that annoy the crap out of me.  You call my opinions subjective...by the very definition of the word "opinion," thats pretty much going to be the case.  Its just as valid as any other opinion posted on these boards, despite the fact that it may be different.  What takes place on these boards is a thinly veiled attempt at censorship.  If the discussion becomes uncomfortable for someone, or if valid points are being raised by those with dissenting opinions, or simply if one of the staffers doesn't like the topic, the thread gets "locked for a few days," or the response is "our way or piss off."

Thats 100% fine.  These are YOUR boards.  You can moderate them and administer them as you see fit, and there is nothing I would even attempt to do to change that.  Just as you can do anything you wish with the module.  Just don't assume you are always right or morally correct in doing so.

As for myself?  I have come (late, my own stupidity) to the realization that my feedback is simply unwelcome.  Thats fine too...I'll quit wasting everyone's time, and my own, by giving it on the feedback forums.  It'll give me far more time to actually play, and use the RP/Bio/other forums if I do.  Change the game however you see fit, and when it ceases to be fun for me, I will stop playing and move on to something else.  It hasn't reached that point yet, and I do still enjoy myself.  You have a wonderful creation here, and I DO appreciate it.  I simply don't enjoy being in certain forums here anymore...its the head meeting the brick wall, and, as you and I have both mentioned, a waste of everyone's time.  So, I will take your "our way or piss off" to heart, and play your way until I piss off.

See you all in game.   :)