PC Diffusion by Terror

[Garland Blackmore]

Something i've always struggled with on PotM is the intention that vallaki be the only low-level area around.

I would like to see another "hub" area attached to PotM. This can be achieved by adding as little as a low-level dungeon and maybe a few crafting zones to an out-of the way area, such as Deganwwy or Kroftberg (not that Kroftberg nees crafting zones), along with a merchant willing to purchase loot for an on-par currency with the vallaki merchants.

As it stands, Vallaki is not scary. People in the outskirts do not fear MPCs. I don't even fear HERETIC in the outskirts.

People who stand out in the middle of the night and chat need to suddenly find themselves beings swarmed by werewolves. I'd like to encourage DMs to rip apart anybody who thinks they can get away with it. Hell, i've seen people set up SHOPS through the night recently. It's disgusting and is very far from the intent of gothic horror themes. People in Barovia don't board up their windows and doors each night because a few beetles chase a cocky level two elf bard all the way back to town.

They board it up because they know if they dare set foot outside, the Immortaj and Neuri will rip them apart.

I've been here a long time, and the growing silent tolerance for this that i've seen from DMs online has begun to worry me. The Outskirts is become a social networking club.

Diffusion by terror. This is the tactic I encourage. A shop at night? have greater wererats swarm in and steal all the loot before they PC can pick it back up and run inside the temple for a Lucy visit. Creat another low level dungoen elsewhere so that PCs have an option of where they want to "Hub" out. If people start becoming too numerous in an area again, start pushing back. Neuri, undead, whatever.  Just spread out the PCs so the server has a little bit more life. We need to address if this is Prisoners of the Mists or the Vallaki Scary Campfire Story Fan Club.

[HellsPanda]

Actually they fear it, because to go outside at night means they might be torn apart. The fear of uncertinty and he unknown are far stronger among humanity, than when you have a foe. If people treated Werewolves as what they where, with actually remembering one of the greatest dangers inherent in them. Namely the ease with which the curse is passed onwards to others. Fear might rapidly appear again.

[Strigoi]

i remember when i played my vampire i came across a full fledged shop run by one of the high level veteran players. i didnt do anything because the DMs didnt seem to mind heh. but i remember the thought going through my head was "WTF?!" hehe

it does break the mood, but then one thing i personally come to accept is that The Western Vallaki Outskirts will always be that way. best thing you can do is move with like minded RPers to a different location. such as the tigian/Morninglord temple in the slums for example, to avoid Immersion breaking elements that you often see in the outskirts. but i think the Outskirts is doomed to be that way as it is the entrance of the server. fighting for change really will get ya no where on POTM. its best the change comes on our part in these circumstances.

if there is a speed bump in the road, move around it, best analogy i can think of Garland.

[Telkar]

I advice you and anyone who feels this way to apply for an AMPC and wreak havoc on the night wanderers. There's actually not much of a limit of how high level you can be, if you're worried about being easily defeated by them. If enough of people do it, it might change something (they'd have to keep doing it of course). If it doesn't, well you can get a good kick out of it at least, contributing to their misery.  

Not to mention if they have a shop put up. Make a bunch of wererats and have them raid the outskirts and then steal all the stuff, cause you know how wererats get. :p

[Strigoi]

i have to disagree with that Telkar. mass slaughtering of PC's is not really a good idea, nor is it really bringing monstrous atmosphere to anyone (more along the lines of "im Evil so i kill people..."). it can lead to a really big mess, here is an example.

1. you go around killing everyone in the outskirts
2. people are extremely frustrated and start spamming the DM channel, DMs forward the Complaints to CC
3. CC deal with everyone who is upset, and now you get dragged in for OOC discussion of the event.
4. people don't come to terms and now the CC is forced to go to the DMs to resolve the matter
5. DMs are frustrated because they have to detract from story telling to deal with the problem and resolve the mediation.


seems allot easier to just move on to an area that is not the starting area of the server, where you wont be bothered with the Midnight Bizarre's. you can save yourself the headache and everyone else from a headache in the process.

[APorg]

On the other hand, it's a self-regulating problem. Since MPCs/AMPCs require approval, cause enough of a ruckus and I doubt you'll be approved to get any new AMPCs. So you won't be causing any more ruckus after that!

(Disclaimer: The above post is tongue-in-cheek.)

[Telkar]

i have to disagree with that Telkar. mass slaughtering of PC's is not really a good idea, nor is it really bringing monstrous atmosphere to anyone (more along the lines of "im Evil so i kill people..."). it can lead to a really big mess, here is an example.

1. you go around killing everyone in the outskirts
2. people are extremely frustrated and start spamming the DM channel, DMs forward the Complaints to CC
3. CC deal with everyone who is upset, and now you get dragged in for OOC discussion of the event.
4. people don't come to terms and now the CC is forced to go to the DMs to resolve the matter
5. DMs are frustrated because they have to detract from story telling to deal with the problem and resolve the mediation.


seems allot easier to just move on to an area that is not the starting area of the server, where you wont be bothered with the Midnight Bizarre's. you can save yourself the headache and everyone else from a headache in the process.

I think it can bring a monstrous atmosphere if done right. Things wouldn't be as simple as "you go around killing everyone in the outskirts."

But the other stuff may be true. We take too much care of the whiners. *le sigh*

[Dread]

I advice you and anyone who feels this way to apply for an AMPC and wreak havoc on the night wanderers.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. If you show even the tiniest amount of mercy by letting them escape into the Church after becoming "badly wounded" or "near death" (because you don't want to seem like a dick), they'll heal themselves right back up and try to finish you off.

Petrus pretty much nailed the rest of what I was going to say on the head. The Western Outskirts is always going to be a little "HERP DERP", so it's better for players to go elsewhere in the server, and explore the multitude of areas that the DMs have made, rather than stick to one area. Really, the Outskirts is a place to meet people, and encourage grouping up, not the place for super-serious RP.

[Telkar]

Lol, yea when you mention it, I remember better how things usually are there. I haven't played for like half a year, so I loose touch. -_-

Disregard my advice! Though, it might be clever to bother the nightly merchants with a thieving wererat and let them chase you to another area to have some RP.   

[herkles]

question if this is such an issue: I got a suggestion why not remove liz or make her really weak?

Though I do agree that the best thing to do is to encourge everyone to not stay in the outskirts, the rp tends to be much better and good away from that area.

[ThePwush]

Not everyone views gothic horror in the same fashion or intensity.  Some may appreciate the increased fear of staying outside, while others *will* see it as interference in their role-play style.  And who's to decide who is in the right? Better to leave it the way it is, IMHO.   

[Elfric]

While i agree with everything is herp derp in the Outskirts [Reason i go ELSEWHERE]. You forget Gothic Horror is not in your face ''Rawr rawr i'mma monsta! I EAT j00!". That type of horror is by far the most over used in modern media. Ravenloft has diffrent domains, and within those domains people. Those people have their own thought of "The worst thing that could happen". Take Lamordians for example, they see all that horror aspect that Barovia is fake. The reason is due to them believing in science, which has caused them to think all other races are offshoots of humans. Now their greatest fear? Any and all that defies logical explanations [In their mindset]. Even magic they call out on as nothing but smoke and mirrors.

As for people staying out at night, you forget one little thing. They're Outlanders. Their views of the night far differ from the natives, and chances are there's a high level playing guardian to them. Meanwhile said natives don't care if these strange fellows end up dead. Even a few blame Outlanders for bringing the beast to the city, and have risen up in arms in fustration. Which makes it seem the natives are far more horrifying then the beast that prowl the night.

[dutchy]

elfric how long you been playing potm?
how long have you been famliar with the setting?
how long did it took you to know the setting?

allot of the people that get in your face are ppl who are still adjusting (in my experience anyway)  and yes there are always those that well i get what ya mean lets keep it at that.

as im asking you those questions you could use that train of thought to those who frustrate you so much.

ps: trying to help not trying to be a troll

[Sharauvyn]

I think the real goal regarding the horrors of "Old Noapte" is simply that the setting is maintained, and night time is IC'ly scary, but at the same time, players aren't punished for being out at night.  I won't speak for anyone else, but I certainly log in hoping as a player that something scary is going to happen.  So, there should be IC motivation for anyone in their right mind to go inside, but interesting situations to play through as players.  Maybe not rewarding to where your character is out seeking it every night, but the player shouldn't feel like they're being driven away from the scariness, when that's what most if not all of us log in for.

Here's some ideas for DM's and MPC's to play with or off of, if they want.

1 - Play off of the themes that are already there. Have a vampire set up shop outside, looking like just another vendor. Next thing you know, people are getting charmed, led off to the Zeklos crypt, and drained, some to death.  Take the time to develop monsters as characters who are out there often enough for long enough to actually seem like part of the normal social landscape.  Do it in such a way as to make it look like PC's who are completely innocent are the actual culprit.  Now not only do you face the danger of being drained for being out at night, but you also could be falsely accused of vampirism yourself!

2 - Recycle the above with rebel attacks, both in the potential of being victimized, and in the risk of being falsely accused.

3 - The wererat idea is a great one, stealing people's wares.  Bring on a pack of them.

4 - Send the garda out during the day, asking around about individuals who were hanging around at night, because xyz happened, and everyone who was out there is wanted for questioning. And we all know what "questioning" means in the citadel. 

5 - Use the vampiric charm ability to cause PC's to do things they normally would not do.  One warrior picks a fight with another, and both fight to the death.  Regardless of who wins, someone has died, and Old Night has claimed a victim.   

The utmost of badness doesn't have to happen to everyone who runs afoul of "Old Night," and certainly not in huge swaths of the population who are out at night.  With a little thought, scenarios could be created that are really cool for players to play through, but yet provide incentive for characters to go inside.  I think what we're all looking for in gothic horror play is situations where the character says, "Oh no!" but as players, we can't wait for the next scene to happen. 

[Kagetora]

I like some of Sharauvyn's ideas.  My characters often tell others how foolish they are for standing around out at night, but, as was said, there seem to be no consequences for it.  And, unfortunately, every time I have ever seen anything approaching consequences, it consists of nothing more than a pack of random monsters running through the area killing whoever they find until put down by high levels or dawn comes.  Hardly qualifies as "horror."  More like a slasher flick.

[Sharauvyn]

Here's an idea to make it scary to be outside at night.
 
Run a few short events where the werewolves or the whatevers, some monsters that are just a *small* amount too strong for the PC's to handle, come marauding through town ...

... and when those who are outside too long try to come in, they find that Bianca and Lizuca have actually locked their doors to keep the terrors out.

[KBlackwell]

... and when those who are outside too long try to come in, they find that Bianca and Lizuca have actually locked their doors to keep the terrors out.

Omg.. That sounds absolutely amazing

Just have a lot of the yellow global emote things, so you can disregard the inevitable complaints because you gave everyone outside plenty of warning

I mean.. the ground was rumbling and there was mist everywhere and the sky was red and you heard howls off in the distance.. and still stayed outside- of course you died!

[HellsPanda]

Problem with global shouts, is that the Trouble seekers will flock outside from miles away

[herkles]

is there a way to do medium area shout outs? ie everyone in the outskrits hears that? there is the bell in the morninglordian chruch which could be used for such a thing if thsi ever got added.

[KBlackwell]

Well, I mean like the area shouts or whatever you see the DMs using from time to time- Maybe dieing a few times in a row after flocking to the shouts will help keep people from flocking so much.

It's always bothered me when something big and horrible and bad happens, people always run towards it.  It would be like the Japanese people all deciding to charge Godzilla or something.

[Geiger]

Every door in Barovia should lock. It doesn't make sense that they don't. These people are Terrified of the night. It should suck that you're trapped outside.

[respawnaholic]

Every door in Barovia should lock. It doesn't make sense that they don't. These people are Terrified of the night. It should suck that you're trapped outside.

+1. Not only that but they should self close as well. Most PCs have given up asking people to shut the doors of the temple or inn any more.

Nothing says "badass" more than swaggering into the temple of the ML and leaving the door open after dark...well...except maybe setting up shop after dark.

[Jay]

Every door in Barovia should lock. It doesn't make sense that they don't. These people are Terrified of the night. It should suck that you're trapped outside.

+1. Not only that but they should self close as well. Most PCs have given up asking people to shut the doors of the temple or inn any more.

Nothing says "badass" more than swaggering into the temple of the ML and leaving the door open after dark...well...except maybe setting up shop after dark.

You misspelled "Dumbass!" Don't worry, i caught it for you though, sharing is caring.

[Taty]

Problem here is the inabiltiy of the staff to enforce consequences. They can't perma people which is about the only thing people will fear, everything else can be sorted with a greater restoration spell.

 To create true fear of old Night there should be an Old night consequences rule. If you are out at night for any reason other than trying to get to shelter from the place you appeared when you logged in you are fair game for the dms to do anything to, mutilate, closure , imprison, whatever.

It wouldn't hurt to empower MPC's in a similar way. If you engage an MPC in any way that is not an attempt to flee you can be closured by them
Suddenly that werewolf looks a bit scarier doesnt it ?

[Jay]

Problem here is the inability of the staff to enforce consequences. They can't perma people which is about the only thing people will fear, everything else can be sorted with a greater restoration spell.

 To create true fear of old Night there should be an Old night consequences rule. If you are out at night for any reason other than trying to get to shelter from the place you appeared when you logged in you are fair game for the dms to do anything to, mutilate, closure , imprison, whatever.

It wouldn't hurt to empower MPC's in a similar way. If you engage an MPC in any way that is not an attempt to flee you can be closured by them
Suddenly that werewolf looks a bit scarier doesn't it ?

Giving any one player the power to terminate somebody story is a big responsibility and can be (to varying degrees) open to abuse. As it stands a GM can force closure if the majority of the team feel it would be appropriate, and even then they still try and do it in a way that satisfies the players wishes.
I'm supprised you're pushing hard for this Taty, considering your reaction to having a single player decide an appropriate response would be to "Closure" Suzzanah for you for three months. (Weather that was right or wrong is a moot point and not relevent to this thread)

There are more to consequences then being closured, some "Tolls" I've had to pay for being out after dark are.
 - A mutilated face that had to be covered in thick bandages that were hard to speak through for a week.
 - Brain damage, playing like a simpleton for a week or two.
 - Amnesia.
 - Blindness.
 - Theft of items and gold,
 - Having my characters heart ripped out and stolen form his chest and left with a powerful magical MPC, leaving him with a feeling of "Loss" after being raised.
 - Being killed and having my body left with a note of warning pinned to it in the outskirts.
 - Miscellaneous torture to varying degrees.

All these things cultivate fear, and respect of the night, a respect that is passed on when the PC tells tales of what happened to him to newer characters. But more importantly they cultivate furthering role-play, not simply ending it.