Incentivising high level PCs to leave the Vallaki area a bit more...

[APorg]

I came upon this idea while considering how cool New Character Week had been, not just for new characters, but also for older characters, getting to congregate in greater masses in places like the village, and so on.

Once New Character Week ends, it'll be sad to see that end and most of the high levellers return westwards.

And it got me thinking. What kind of incentives could we give people to encourage them to stay in such areas? (I'm more of a fan for incentives rather than restrictions; as far as I'm concerned, the truism that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar totally applies in the hobby sphere.)

Note: this is not an argument about whether high level PCs are appropriate or not in such starter areas. Clearly, they have their place. Still... seeing places like the village more active and used would be nice.

So, my first idea was: make roleplay XP count double in non-starter areas. This isn't hugely imbalancing in the sense that roleplay XP isn't a patch on most dungeoning XP, but still, it gives people that extra reason to perhaps consider setting up their group's gathering point east of the Tser falls.

Just brainstorming here.

[Blackthorn51]

I'd like to see a bigger split between low level and high level pcs in starter areas too.  Its less fun being a low level antagonist or mpc without such a split.  Your were-rat stalks a couple low levels to cause some fear and then a level 20 paladin comes out of the temple and one shots you. 

I dont think there is much that can be done to give high levels incentive to stay out of starter areas though, cause thats where a lot of RP is.  But man, New Character Week really showed me how much fun the server can actually be when higher level PCs are forced to stay away from starter places. 

[Badelaire]

I don't have enough time to dedicate to another pc really though I have made one more focused towards the social side of things than dungeoning for the week and to continue past it. I have been on my higher level PC's and it's much more fun actually meeting other people out on the other side of the server for a change now they're travelling more. Even my level 5 has done pretty well for himself with other PC's who were made not long before the week. 2 of my PC's even met the OP's PC and one lucky monk netted himself a Red Gi! I've never seen any of those drop in like 2 years! Pretty hefty incentive there

There is more to be seen and done away from the outskirts and the village is at the heart of the setting proper. It's chock full of buried secrets waiting for a group of plucky adventurers to pry open.

[Ternce]

The thing that really draws the high level PC's to the lower level areas is that the loot is a lot lower risk and a lot higher reward in the areas surrounding Vallaki.

Clearing out the entirety of Har Akir -might- net 10,000 gold worth of items, 9500 of which is coming from the final chamber of one dungeon, whereas loot is a lot more evenly distributed throughout the entirety of the Barovian dungeons, and items of much higher value can be found much closer to Vallaki.  

When you reach a certain level, partying is a must, unless you want to spend a whole lot of gold on resources (varnishes, potions) to make your adventure worthwhile, and still risk dying because of unfavorable dice rolls, with nobody there to catch you if you slip.

In addition to this, most of the crafting components and stations are just more convenient to go collect in the areas surrounding Vallaki, and its also a lot easier to just accept Vallaki as the RP hub, where you go to meet new people, and pick up party members.  Currently, it seems that we have a pretty good split between the Dementlieu hub and the Vallaki hub, though levels aren't the sole determining factor in who goes where.  When a party is unavailable, the prospect of low risk treasure, which is better than the high risk area treasure for the most part, will still draw higher level people to the Vallaki area.

I'm of the opinion that the treasure needs to be toned down a tad in areas surrounding Vallaki, and boosted in higher risk areas such as Har Akir, Blaustein, and the dungeons near the village of Barovia.  There's at least 4 really cool dungeons in that zone that have relatively poor loot compared to areas that are closer to home. 

[Strigoi]

ya i have to agree with Ternce a bit there. i saw some pretty powerful stuff for sale in a player run shop during the 1 week event. i didnt think it was possible to acquire all that so fast.

[Springer]

In my opinion loot drop should be looked at at the area near Vallaki. Its ridiculous when you can find things like Armour of the Crown in the SUllen woods and not even on max spawn. After all it was stated a lot that Vallaki is a starter area for low levels. If its for low levels then loot should be apropriate there and not high end.

[Ophie Kitty]

ya i have to agree with Ternce a bit there. i saw some pretty powerful stuff for sale in a player run shop during the 1 week event. i didnt think it was possible to acquire all that so fast.

You should of saw someone I know. A few months back they made a self-providing character that hand approximately 260k by level six / one month. Ninjalooting is ridiculous.

[Avatar6666]

Its alot harder now since the impletation of a hide and move silent check per monster in the room. My rogue has a high Hide and MS and all the gear to back the numbers and i still fail on occasion and i am get in the 60+ on both ms and hide.

[Springer]

Best ninja looters arent rogues, but wizards and sorcs and they dont rely on stealth skills for that.

[Vespertilio]

Best ninja looters arent rogues, but wizards and sorcs and they dont rely on stealth skills for that.

This, is true.  A level 3 wizard with expeditious retreat and invisibility doesn't need stealth, they can outrun what ever detects them.  They can even use their familiar as a diversion to lead off enemies.
Use of invisibility and later on GS allows running past mobs in a dungeon to reach the desired end sooner.  Even a fighter in full plate with invis and exp retreat potions can be a ninja looter.  Rogues take a lot of  feats, focus on stealth and invest in a skill with time and stealth oriented items but none of that is actually required to be a 'ninja'.  Most ninja looters aren't even rogues, or not rogues as their primary class.

 Add on top of this how ridiculously easy it is to 'ninja' the sullen/shadow woods if you /don't/ try to be a sneak about it but try to run as fast as you can and it isn't hard to understand why there were rather surprising items sold during new pc week.  That one map in Sullen consistently spawns better loot for a lot less work (or if not better in many cases more practically useful such as brooches) than just about any place else on the server and during new pc week the spawn wasn't being killed so it got rather high.

Regarding loot drops away from Vallaki, it would be a great incentive to get higher levels away from Vallaki if there were other options in dungeoning.  Items that are invaluably useful to non caster pcs despite what level they are would be great scattered in some of the other areas/domains, such as the Elder Sign.

[rabidsmily]

I'm more of a fan for incentives rather than restrictions

In my opinion the #1 thing you could change to ensure high level characters would never come back to Vallaki is:
1. Sell Barkskin potions in the Mist Camp/Dementlieu.

I know a good many high level characters who proclaim they would never go back to "n00b central" Vallaki if they could buy Barkskin potions in the Mist Camp or the Hospice (where the herbalism cauldron is) in Dementlieu. I believe that if you would make is so the high level characters I know do not have to run back to Vallaki/Deganway to buy Barkskin potions, they would be able to encourage the other high level characters not to go back as well.

[Vespertilio]

I know a good many high level characters who proclaim they would never go back to "n00b central" Vallaki if they could buy Barkskin potions in the Mist Camp or the Hospice (where the herbalism cauldron is) in Dementlieu. I believe that if you would make is so the high level characters I know do not have to run back to Vallaki/Deganway to buy Barkskin potions, they would be able to encourage the other high level characters not to go back as well.

There would also be less higher levels going to Vallaki area if there were alternatives for certain resources such as silver and other places to do gilding at besides those stations located in Barovia/Vallaki areas.

[Ternce]

I've thought of a list of suggestions that I think would really help the Village of Barovia get a lot more useage while not involving a great deal of work other than modifying the treasure tables.

Warning:  There are some spoilers ahead about settings things, and module things.

Spoiler: show

1.  Add a Vistani Merchant in the Tser Pools, or in the Outlying Village of Barovia Farmlands. 

While it might be redundant to have one so close to the "Mist Camp", people are drawn to merchants and outdoor areas, and these create natural hubs.  As large and as interesting as a place may be, people are always drawn to areas that take fewer transitions.  I've seen it time and time again on multiple servers where there is a very well built Inn, and people choose to sit on the benches outside of it in the rain rather than go inside and see something that took time to build and has a much better atmosphere.

The Merchant doesn't have to be a Vistani Merchant, he could just be a shady guy with prices comparable to the traveling Vistani that hits Krofburg from time to time, and he could sell Barkskin Potions as well, killing 2 birds with one stone.

2.  Tweaking the loot tables of the dungeons around the Village of Barovia. 

Currently, the Ant Caves have extremely poor loot tables compared to other dungeons near the Vallaki Area.  Worse even than the Thoul Caves, or the random Orc and Goblin camps.  More lootable things and higher quality loot in them makes the area a lot more worthwhile, not that it isn't already amazing to just go there.  The ants are perhaps one of the best sources of experience points in the entire module for mid level people, and its very easy to put yourself on Blind Drive in 1 or 2 go arounds.  I'm not sure if its because the ants are worth a lot of xp, or if there are just a lot of them, but that place is great.  Treasure would make it better, and it seems like the area could be expanded on story-wise.  Let us find out why there are huge ants.  Are they indiginous?  Magic?  Mutation?  Will the halfling family ever be greatful that we killed a lot of them?  The potential to that one spot has a great story that's just waiting to be told.

The Fortress Fane and the Moor Men areas both seem fine in terms of difficulty, experience reward, and treasure tables, however both of these places could use a few more lootable placeables to bring them on par with other dungeons.  Maybe add some more in the middle and beginning?

The Skeleton Caves and the Sequel Dungeon beneath the church are both great for xp, and the loot that drops off of the skeletons isn't terrible, as long as you don't mind weighing yourself down with tons and tons of small items that sell for an average amount.  If you get into the chests there though, it's really rare to see anything worthwhile.  Increasing the frequency of useable things like Brooches of Shielding, Scabbards of Blessing, Rods of the Ghost, Enchanted Whetstones, and multiple use spell items like the Firepipes, Wands of Sleep, and Rods of Frost would be fantastic in terms of adding more reward for your adventure and giving incentive to explore.  It's really rare in either of these dungeons to find anything more valuable than a Cold Forged or Copper Weapon.

I can't really comment on the Well area with the Nessian Warhounds, but it seems like the experience reward is not on par with surrounding areas, while the difficulty is right where it should be.  I don't recall ever finding any loot here worth mentioning either, but we haven't really completed the dungeon, since this is the first module where Search is an invaluable skill and our party has only recently acquired a rogue we can count on.

I think these suggestions would really give the area that "shot in the arm" to get people in there, and roleplay would come naturally from a higher population here.

[dutchy]

well i have been sending ideas to blue for the village but it is a hard area to alter or add.

asfar as i understood they want to keep the feel of the village *wich is a dreary one*  but if there was a way they hope to have it more suitable for higher lvls now the question is HOW.

there are already stations for 3 crafts theres an inn theres a temple theres a good number of dungeons.      what does it lack compared to vallaki? (beside ppl)

[herkles]

I think that Dementlieu could use more resources, areas and a dungeon or two. this might encourge more higher levels to migrate there.

[respawnaholic]

Making travel less of a chore would encourage people to spread out.

[Mark Johansen]

Or you could actely make it possible for peoaple to select their own spawn location by keeping track of witch city's they have visited and on spawn in they get an list of spawnin locations

[Avatar6666]

well i have been sending ideas to blue for the village but it is a hard area to alter or add.

asfar as i understood they want to keep the feel of the village *wich is a dreary one*  but if there was a way they hope to have it more suitable for higher lvls now the question is HOW.

there are already stations for 3 crafts theres an inn theres a temple theres a good number of dungeons.      what does it lack compared to vallaki? (beside ppl)

I have to say i like the village but it lacks some major resources, i have to go to valkari to find and make strong varnishes and silver, I think if you added more rescources it would bring more merchants, Then it would bring more people to those merchants. Its just what i have seen.

[Nemien Callishan]

Currently, it seems that we have a pretty good split between the Dementlieu hub and the Vallaki hub

Really? Seriously? Have you been to Dementlieu recently? The place has been pretty much abandoned these last few weeks. That's not so much a recent trend as one that's worsened recently.

[Emomina]

The mist camp is a decent hub in my opinion, see people to and from there often.

IF you mean, like the Sanctuary of Coming Dawn during night time hours, then no, there are not any such "hubs".
I am not sure why there seems to be a desire for such a "hub", about 8 characters on screen is about as much as I can take and still keep up with whats going on, but there is a more than decent chance to run into another character or two in Dementlieu, the Mist camp and to a lesser extent in Har Akir and Hazlan. Some of you are fighting against the system, which is trying to spread out the playerbase, not clump every character together again.

If you have played here long enough, you remember a time when if 18 character were online, then 15 of them were in the Vallaki - Western Outskirts and the other 3 would be there again sometime during the play session. We have come a long way from that thankfully.

[Sharauvyn]

The biggest resource oriented draw that keeps me coming back to Vallaki so much is knuckles for healing potions.  The Zeklos crypt area will give you enough knuckles to trade in for anywhere between 10 and 20 potions of cure moderate wounds. Not 10-20 knuckles, 10-20 *potions.* I don't know of anywhere else on the server (or on the internet, for that matter) where a level 10+ character can earn a cure moderate wounds potion for every five blows they swing, not counting natural 1's on the attack roll, all the way through an entire dungeon.  I would almost advocate toning down the reward for that dungeon, but what I'd actually like to see more is some at least near-equivalent ability to earn healing potions from dungeoning elsewhere.  If a Zeklos zombie equals 1/5 of a potion of cure moderate wounds, then maybe a skeletal lord outside the Village could somehow equal 1/5 of a cure critical wounds potion. Or ... maybe at the least ... give a second knuckle?    That would make it a lot easier for me to keep my characters away from Vallaki.

[HellsPanda]

knuckles trade for cure light wounds if I am not mistaken

[Kagetora]

knuckles trade for cure light wounds if I am not mistaken

Its sort of both.  Its a level 5 CLW potion, so it gives back d8+5.  A normal CLW gives d8+1, and a CMW gives 2d8+3.  The averages are 9.5, 5.5, and 12, respectively.  That makes the FREE Tonics very attractive, even to high-levels, who can use them to heal up between fights when they can't rest.

[Gorasin]

Cure light wounds is 1d8+2  so the average is actually higher. Its 6.5.
There are other sources for healing items. Just in terms of cost over quality they are the best.

[Ophie Kitty]

If a Zeklos zombie equals 1/5 of a potion of cure moderate wounds, then maybe a skeletal lord outside the Village could somehow equal 1/5 of a cure critical wounds potion. Or ... maybe at the least ... give a second knuckle?    That would make it a lot easier for me to keep my characters away from Vallaki.

I'd.. really don't think that would help anything, merely make those particular dungeons just farmed even more..  I can use myself as an example for how tremendously easy this dungeons were, Its very similar to how easy zeklos is for newbies. If it started giving stronger potions.. and besides, you can already get cure criticals by turning other reagents in, and 'five' of those are A LOT harder than five skeleton lords.


What it comes down to, is there needs to be a reason other than dungeoning for people to branch away from Vallaki, because right now, that what the majority of people who don't leave there have been saying keeps them there.