Author Topic: Gothic Earth Characters and Common  (Read 4861 times)

LackofCertainty

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Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« on: December 14, 2011, 04:02:50 PM »
Because gothic earth is based on a fantasy version of earth, there is no common.  Does that mean that every gothic earth character has to rp not knowing how to communicate with anyone on the server for months while they try to learn a new language?  

Are gothic earth characters allowed to magically learn common as they are snatched by the mists if they have the int for it? (kinda like how Shadowkind in gothic earth learn a language appropriate to the place they get dumped)




Edit: Not sure if this belonged in Ravenloft discussion or RP discussion.  I thought I heard that gothic earth is originally from the ravenloft masque of red death so I figure this was the proper place.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 04:04:25 PM by LackofCertainty »

Bato

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2011, 04:23:01 PM »
It's a general rule, for ease, that everyone regardless knows Common no matter what.
But if you ~want to go through the learning Common thing you can, no one will stop you.

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2011, 04:37:12 PM »
It's a general rule, for ease, that everyone regardless knows Common no matter what.
That's not exactly true. The ruling we have is that "Common" is the same language across D&D worlds. While this seems far-fetched, it's not impossible given planar travel, spelljamming, magic portals, etc. We also use the option from the Ravenloft DMG for having Common in the setting. Basically, if your character from Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms speaks Common, it's the same Common tongue.

Gothic Earth characters do not have this language, as it has been cutoff from the multiverse for the most part. Shadowkind that come to the Gothic Earth are given knowledge of Earth languages through some unknown aspect of the Plane of Shadow, but the Demiplane of Dread is not in or on the Plane of Shadow, and the Mists do not impart knowledge. So Gothic Earth characters are essentially more alienated than other outlanders.

As an example, look at the domain of Odiare. It was pulled from Gothic Earth's Italy, and the only language its inhabitants speak is Italian. Domains of Dread states that non-Odiarians must resort to magic spells such as tongues and/or comprehend languages in order to communicate with Odiarans.

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LackofCertainty

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2011, 04:44:09 PM »
So basically, no gothic earth character can start with common?

Alright, guess I just need to gear myself up for babbling in Norse for a while, until I can pickup enough balok or common to get points across.

Geiger

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2011, 06:24:08 PM »
I like that. In terms of the Multiverse, the Earth Sphere is supposed to be like the Alabama of it. Furthermore it could be in your characters story that they -arrived- in the Mists some years ago and spent time in a different domain, long enough to learn common. That is what I have done. But it is also fun to learn a language. Earth has never had a common language. But the closest we've come to it have been French in previous centuries and English now-adays. Random fact as well, one of the names for the Chinese language is Putonghua - which literally means "the common tongue/speech".

Also there are monoglots in worlds where there are common languages (some have more than one!). You'd also have problems reading in most domains, as some settings have actual 'scripts' those languages are in. :D

Bato

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2011, 07:03:46 PM »
Ahh well it was my understanding for the ease of everything that common was a thing people just knew.

Kendaric

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2012, 05:33:51 AM »
*chants in a language not spoken for millenia* Thread arise! Bring me the answers I seek!

Sorry about the thread necromancy...

Furthermore it could be in your characters story that they -arrived- in the Mists some years ago and spent time in a different domain, long enough to learn common.

Would that be an acceptable option to take for a gothic earth character provided INT allows for a bonus language? I'm interested in a gothic earth character for the NCW, so any insights would be helpful.
If it's not an option, how will learning common be handled in regard to time and INT-mod/skill points?

Silverfox

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2012, 05:50:33 AM »
I personally have an Italian. Speaks High Mordentish and Trade. Argument being he spent some time in Dementlieu when freshly misted.

Easiest way around it, though I find the lack of linguifranker to he a terrible inconvenience that - for me - impacts negatively on immersion.
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TheJustLawOfShamash

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2012, 07:06:03 AM »
What is the official ruling on languages native to Barovia as regards their intelligibility with Gothic Earth languages?  Does Balok and real world Romanian share enough vocabulary and grammar that speakers of the two languages could form a basic understanding of one another?  At best, I figure that it would be like a 15th century Englishman coming to modern day America, where communication would be incredibly difficult, but the 15th century Englishman could, at the very least, get his point across.  Some have said, in the other thread, that the two languages have no intelligibility, but I would like an official ruling in that regard.
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Feronius

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 07:11:50 AM »
I think it has been said before, they're two entirely different languages. You'd have to ask BlueBomber or such for an official ruling.
I'd ignore the spelling, act as if it's two people talking on a kind of different dimension. Where it sounds like jibberish to one and another?

Geiger

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 07:15:13 AM »
The official ruling is that the languages that core languages are based on are NOT the same. High and Low Mordentish are not French and Middle English. Balok is not Romanian. Magyar and Luktar are not the same and so on.

The only place that MIGHT be something you could argue would be Akiri. I think they're actually from Egypt.

Odiare is actually an Italian city-state.

Kendaric

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2012, 07:37:55 AM »
The official ruling is that the languages that core languages are based on are NOT the same. High and Low Mordentish are not French and Middle English. Balok is not Romanian. Magyar and Luktar are not the same and so on.

The only place that MIGHT be something you could argue would be Akiri. I think they're actually from Egypt.

Odiare is actually an Italian city-state.

Makes sense, as the domains weren't ripped from earth for the most part. In case of Low Mordentish it's Old English (Anglo-Saxon), not Middle English (which would be the English language of Chaucer).

I guess I'll go for the "spend some time in another domain and learned common/trade" route, it should make RP a bit easier and comfortable. As I'd feel seeing something like: "[english] Good day to you" would seem odd. Using actual early modern English (Shakespearean English) would probably work, but it's bound to have a lot of mistakes in it (especially in regards to grammar).

Dumas

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2012, 11:34:08 AM »
My main character, Dumas Rilfore is half-English, half-French, from 1422. His background in Gothic Earth has him fluent in both languages. I've had him on the server for about 2 years, though I did take a nearly 1 year break with him until I started playing him consistently last winter.

Anyways, when I started him on the server, for ease of use, I just never mentioned the whole Common language barrier problem in my starting RP with him. Every player I ran into in those early days seemed okay with it, and I think everyone understood that a player may not want to go through the months that it would take to have them learn common. That's not fun for some people, learning a language like that.

After a couple of weeks, some real life stuff got in the way of any extended playing for me, and I took a long break. When I came back, the character base had entirely changed, so I used this as a chance to redefine my concepts for Dumas, and started RPing that he wandered the Mists for about a year, and picked up Common. Once again, everyone seemed cool with this. If you want to RP that your character did something similar, in my opinion, I think that would be acceptable. When it all comes down to it, this is a game, and this little bit of an RP crutch could be really useful for some players. It's not like Common is Draconian, or Balok, or Dementlieuse... it's just an ease of use thing, if you look at it from an OOC standpoint. I don't believe it is immersion breaking if you go this route.

At the same time, RPing learning Common for a Gothic Earth character could be fun. I can see that. It would certainly lead to some interesting RP situations, I'm sure! But it may not be everyone's playing style to do so. That said, if you want to avoid that long process, at least be sure to have a good RP backstory of how it happened, (relying on natural factors, not magic, I would suggest), if anyone questions it!


In the same vein of things, as my character Dumas is half-English, half-French, he knows the 15th century versions of both languages. There are times when I have him communicate as such (usually for a curse, or when he is surprised, scared, praying, or telling a secret to another Gothic Earth character). When that case happens, I do simply type, "[in his native English (or French)] Meet at the noon hour". Thus far, no character that does have an RP background of speaking English or French has acted as if they can understand him. At the same time, if Dumas runs across a Dementlieuse character, I don't act as if Dumas knows what they are saying. I'll perhaps have him feel more comfortable having that language spoken to him, due to his background. It has only been after spending considerable time in Dementlieu that I have had Dumas pick up a few phrases from that language. I believe it would make more sense for him to start to learn Dementlieuse than say, Balok. Now this isn't to say that it's because Dementlieuse and French share words (even if OOCly, they do, to give it familar flavor). It's more because it is supposed to have a similar feeling to the ear, sounding in tone and accent like French, not actual words.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 08:52:06 PM by Dumas »

Kendaric

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2012, 08:15:25 PM »
I'll definitely go for a natural explanation rather than magical, as that fits the setting best (or rather both settings in this case :) ). As Common/Trade is sort of a lingua franca anyway, it should be relatively easy to learn. At least as far as normal conversation is concerned. Philosophical debates or similiar complex affairs will probably be out of question for a while.

Thanks for the information in any case, it's quite useful to see how others have handled this so far.

hugolino

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Re: Gothic Earth Characters and Common
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2016, 01:15:36 AM »
Pardon me for resurrecting this thread, but I just wanted to point out...

So basically, no gothic earth character can start with common?

Not quite. Though very few do, demihumans exist in Gothic Earth after having been sucked into it via the Shadow Plane, similar to how the mists grab people for the Demiplane of Dread. These demihumans can come from any D&D world, such as Faerun. From the PoTM forum's Gothic Earth resource thread:

Quote
These beings, now trapped on the Gothic Earth, are known as the Shadowkind. ... A character who begins play as a newly arrived Shadowkind knows one or more languages, most of which are not spoken on Earth. Such languages include Celestial, Draconic, Elven, and Goblin. However, they all share a common language (called Common) that has striking parallels to the predominant language spoken in the area where they arrived. Shadowkind characters born and raised in our world gain languages as human characters do. In addition to one or more local languages, they may know one or more languages of Shadow (taught to them by their parents and elders)."

So demihumans and those with partial demihuman ancestry in Gothic Earth can learn languages spoken in other planes, including D&D Common. Furthermore, it is also possible for full humans of Gothic Earth to have learned these languages too.

Quote
Natives of the Gothic Earth — human and Shadowkind alike — can learn new Shadow languages only after they are exposed to them; they can’t master them spontaneously. To learn Draconic, for example, a character must spend time with creatures that speak Draconic or find someone with access to the written language (Draconic “books on tape” or ancient texts written using the Draconic alphabet, for example). Certain Shadowkind know languages commonly spoken among members of their species, and all characters may study and learn new Shadow languages...

I would guess, however, that it is far more likely for a Gothic Earth human to arrive through the Mist knowing Elven or some other racial language rather than Common, which is not really part of any demihuman's heritage. It is unlikely that passing on Common to descendants and allies on Gothic Earth would have been a high priority among Shadowkind, whereas a racial language would be a matter of pride.

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=21168.0
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 01:28:35 AM by hugolino »