Rentable Housing in Vallaki and Area

[Jeebs]

So I was thinking.  When I first arrived to PotM, I thought it was somewhat hard to make money and properly equipped.... now that I've been here a while, I'm realizing that it's actually quite easy to do so and even amass a small fortune with nothing really important to spend it on (depending on what kind of character you play.) So I was thinking, since Vallaki one of the most prominent locations for RP, why not offer some housing for players there as a way to recycle some of that money?  Now, I'm no builder by any means, but I did play around with the toolset a bit and from what I remember the tileset for Vallaki does create a high number of doors that likely will serve no purpose and just be forever locked.  So why not make a small generic homestead map that you can clone a few times, make a key for some of these doors and then rent out a few homes around the city?

[dutchy]

...lol not trying or wanting to be an ass butttttttttt.

there been a few topics about this, i forgot the awnser but i will give it a shot.

i think in the end it was concluded that player housing as we named it would not be possible cause the staff doesnt want it to be possible.

outlanders for example cannot own a house in barovia  so thats a valid reason


but you keep thinking!!, you'l hit one we havnt thought of befor 

[Ophie Kitty]

...lol not trying or wanting to be an ass butttttttttt.

there been a few topics about this, i forgot the awnser but i will give it a shot.

i think in the end it was concluded that player housing as we named it would not be possible cause the staff doesnt want it to be possible.

outlanders for example cannot own a house in barovia  so thats a valid reason


but you keep thinking!!, you'l hit one we havnt thought of befor 

Pretty much that.


1) Staff doesn't want it.
2) ICly, only barovians can hold land in Vallaki
3) Whats considered a fair price? Too much, the real barovians can't even afford it.. too little, everyone wants one.

[Jeebs]

Pretty much that.


1) Staff doesn't want it.
2) ICly, only barovians can hold land in Vallaki
3) Whats considered a fair price? Too much, the real barovians can't even afford it.. too little, everyone wants one.

1- I can respect that... won't argue that point, 'cause it's their server, lol.

2- I thought as much, but that still leads to many great RP opportunities.  Only Barovian players would theoretically be allowed to own/rent a home in Vallaki, so if any Outlander ever wanted one, they'd have to find some corrupt or sympathetic city official to rent it to them in the first place, and then they would have to be very discreet about it otherwise before they know it, the Guarda are busting their door in.  Likely that Outlander would also have to pay exorbitant bribes and far more than a Barovian

3- I would say it would be in the form of a monthly property tax (how long is a month in game anyhow?), and what's considered fair should be open for discussion.  If you don't pay your property taxes, you find yourself out of a home and whatever possessions you had in there are seized by the city.  In fact, who says the price has to be fair?  If, as you said, the average Barovian can't afford it, then by all means make it expensive.  I personally feel that if a player has a place to call their own where they can bring back friends or family to RP with, store a few things, they will likely work to be able to afford to keep it, thereby generating more RP in itself.  As for everyone wants one... well tough, there would only be a small number of them, so they would go either first come first serve or to the highest bidder.

Either way, if the devs don't want it, it's a moot point.  I just thought it'd be a decent way to stimulate some interesting RP, as well as provide a money-sink to keep things going.

[dutchy]

1: yup
2: ic you should assume tax collectors come by if you don't even sound native it's the gallows for you my friend   barovians are a close(d) community towards outsiders.

3: wouldnt make sense ic, why would something cost as much as the citadel itself where the burgomaster and the local guards live, this is the ic and ooc paradox we always have its an eternal conflict, simply put does the end justefy the means.

it's safe to say point 3 is an opinion/point of view    no debate on it needed one side thinks as you do. make it expensive    the other side thinks  ic wise it doesnt fit.

staff draws the line and they have.

ps/ most money sink or biggest ones are varnishes and potions, once you buy them you want more and more and more to keep a proper stock.

but as i said keep those brain juices flowing you'l hit a golden idea sooner or later 

[Jeebs]

3: wouldnt make sense ic, why would something cost as much as the citadel itself where the burgomaster and the local guards live, this is the ic and ooc paradox we always have its an eternal conflict, simply put does the end justefy the means.

it's safe to say point 3 is an opinion/point of view    no debate on it needed one side thinks as you do. make it expensive    the other side thinks  ic wise it doesnt fit.

True enough, but then by the same logic, considering how easily one can make money, why can't the Barovians afford these homes?  That aspect of it doesn't really reflect the setting, but it is what it is.  Given that this is NWN and not PnP DnD, there are limitations.  I understand what you're saying... I thoroughly enjoy the server and I just figured I'd mention a few things I thought of that could add to the flavor and RP in some way.

[Bato]

While rent able housing has it's uses, the problem is there's going to be a finite and fairly small number of them.
Everyone is going to want one, and people will cling on to their houses with life, even with monthly payments.

They have this sort of stuff on other servers, and every server has the end result of
"Who owns that house?"
'Dudeguy'
"Who's dudeguy?"
'No one knows, he logs on every week sometime at 4 in the morning just to renew his house, and sell things if low on money.'



Plus quite a few of those perma-locked houses have stuff in them for DMs.

[Jay]

Plus quite a few of those perma-locked houses have stuff in them for DMs.

*Breaks into a house and finds all of Tarroka's NPC's. Madness save DC35*

[Bato]

Tarokka's house I believe is the least of your worries.
Eugh, the things I've seen.

[Ophie Kitty]

True enough, but then by the same logic, considering how easily one can make money, why can't the Barovians afford these homes?  That aspect of it doesn't really reflect the setting, but it is what it is.  Given that this is NWN and not PnP DnD, there are limitations.  I understand what you're saying... I thoroughly enjoy the server and I just figured I'd mention a few things I thought of that could add to the flavor and RP in some way.

Its really only easy for those who take the time to dungeon consistently. As Bato said, there would only be a small limit of them, just like the Governor's Hotel in the port. The Penthouse has been rented out indefinitely for several months now (5000 a week, mind you), and I've heard a handful of people always 'waiting for those suites to become avaliable.'  If I were to toss some numbers around..


500/Week (Same as the Hotel) Is probably affordable by most, A barovian PC could probably pull the funds together before each deadline. Someone who makes an effort to dungeon often, probably will never have to worry about losing it as long as their active. Any character with a small fortune can own the house indefinitely. Its only 26,000gp to own the house for the entire RL year.

1500/Week (Same as Guest Suites) probably pushing it for any Barovian PC. People who dungeon can still easily afford it. 78,000gp / year

5000/Week (Penthouse) Most players probably wouldn't want to pay this for very long, its really only a large convenience for those few people swimming in gold. Barovians, and most players wouldn't have this much 'extra' money. 260,000gp / year

Now the biggest issue that I can see that this sort of system adds, is that it doesn't promote a gold dump, but rather creates a need for expense, and people tend to try to earn more money when they have a new upkeep cost. This system really just makes people 'need' to dungeon more, which currently, probably happens a bit too much already.

[HellsPanda]

Actually the penthouse probably costs more, since you need to pay for each key individually

[Ophie Kitty]

Actually the penthouse probably costs more, since you need to pay for each key individually

I was just giving defined numbers, won't worry about the variable costs.

[Mephisto]

My biggest concern with player housing, even rentable, is that we have a large playerbase.
Every player will want a house. Even if only Barovians get houses, what about the Dementlieuse characters in Dementlieu, or Hazlan characters in Hazlan, etc. That's alot of work and alot of extra areas.
And, once everyone has a house, the playerbase will be even more divided. We have many areas in the server as it is, if we add more areas that players can lock themselves away in, the playerbase will be scattered and players looking for RP will have a hard time finding it.
I think the tenements and hotel are a good example of what works. The tenements already offer similar to what you're suggesting.

[Ophie Kitty]

My biggest concern with player housing, even rentable, is that we have a large playerbase.
Every player will want a house. Even if only Barovians get houses, what about the Dementlieuse characters in Dementlieu, or Hazlan characters in Hazlan, etc. That's alot of work and alot of extra areas.
And, once everyone has a house, the playerbase will be even more divided. We have many areas in the server as it is, if we add more areas that players can lock themselves away in, the playerbase will be scattered and players looking for RP will have a hard time finding it.
I think the tenements and hotel are a good example of what works. The tenements already offer similar to what you're suggesting.

[Badelaire]

When you've just been thrust into an unfamiliar and dangerous new world, I don't think cheap and affordable housing is your first main concern. There's already a large volume of areas a character can habit for a small fee as well as faction living spaces, it just takes a little initiative to seek them out. You'd be surprised just how empty most of the inns even a few transitions around the outskirts are. I used to see a lot of small groups of characters huddled in the corner of somewhere like the Fishing Lodge, Midway, the abandoned inn, narrow pass camp, Krofburg, VoB and myriad other places during night.

[dutchy]

3: wouldnt make sense ic, why would something cost as much as the citadel itself where the burgomaster and the local guards live, this is the ic and ooc paradox we always have its an eternal conflict, simply put does the end justefy the means.

it's safe to say point 3 is an opinion/point of view    no debate on it needed one side thinks as you do. make it expensive    the other side thinks  ic wise it doesnt fit.

True enough, but then by the same logic, considering how easily one can make money, why can't the Barovians afford these homes?  That aspect of it doesn't really reflect the setting, but it is what it is.  Given that this is NWN and not PnP DnD, there are limitations.  I understand what you're saying... I thoroughly enjoy the server and I just figured I'd mention a few things I thought of that could add to the flavor and RP in some way.

normal regular barovians the npc's and cannon wise ones don't look for danger they don't see a cave as  apossible income they rather lock their doors and hide and try to make an honest living

[Badelaire]

Yes, native PC's reflect something more than your usual domain stereotype. They all have their own reasons to go out and seek adventures but they reflect a small percentage and certainly not the norm. In a fuedal society as Barovia, to afford a house would be beyond the means of many unless they were ridiculously wealthy enough to purchase the deeds to one. An abode would be something passed on through generations of the same family paying off the mortgage.

If one were to play to a typical Barovian then they'd only be commoners who work in a field all day for toil, spend their allowance on a bit of booze then go home and get nagged by the wife for being a iadul, no good drunk with 10 screaming kids to raise. In between sighing wearily as another insane adventurer breaks into their home, rifles through the draws, unlocks all the cupboards and makes off with the best pots and pans to pawn for their healing potion addiction.

Homework for you all, what would a healing potion smack-head look like?

[Taty]

Yes, native PC's reflect something more than your usual domain stereotype. They all have their own reasons to go out and seek adventures but they reflect a small percentage and certainly not the norm. In a fuedal society as Barovia, to afford a house would be beyond the means of many unless they were ridiculously wealthy enough to purchase the deeds to one. An abode would be something passed on through generations of the same family paying off the mortgage.

If one were to play to a typical Barovian then they'd only be commoners who work in a field all day for toil, spend their allowance on a bit of booze then go home and get nagged by the wife for being a iadul, no good drunk with 10 screaming kids to raise. In between sighing wearily as another insane adventurer breaks into their home, rifles through the draws, unlocks all the cupboards and makes off with the best pots and pans to pawn for their healing potion addiction.

Homework for you all, what would a healing potion smack-head look like?

Not quite accurate. You cant own land . Even the Boyer's and Burgomiesters only manage it for the Count. Renting as tenants is more accurate.

Player housing for native PC's is attractive for many reasons, but in the end it depends on the will of the Devs and the servers ability to withstand the resource grab. I personally would like to see housing awarded as a reward for establishing yourself in said community. Natives of any country that prop up the setting would be able to use said housing to further their rp and it might serve as an incentive to motivate others to be involved in that way. Retired Garda Captains in Vallaki are one example. In the end it is a cool thing that is hardly essential and rests entirely in the Devs hands.

[Gorasin]

We already have the problem of rooms in the port being under lock and key. Lets not create more like that.

[Dobian]

I've housing for my characters in single player games like Morrowind.  Basically you put in a lot of time custom designing your interior, bringing in loads of items to decorate, and it's a lot of fun.  but when you are all done, you end up just looking at your creation, and that's about it.  On a server you can have real people over as guests, but I think that would get old really fast, and turn PoTM into a server of virtual couch potatos.

[Jeebs]

I've housing for my characters in single player games like Morrowind.  Basically you put in a lot of time custom designing your interior, bringing in loads of items to decorate, and it's a lot of fun.  but when you are all done, you end up just looking at your creation, and that's about it.  On a server you can have real people over as guests, but I think that would get old really fast, and turn PoTM into a server of virtual couch potatos.

Perhaps, that is a valid point, I suppose... though if Outlanders aren't allowed to rent, it would limit just who you can have over on a regular basis, otherwise the Garda might suspect you're letting them stay there and you might get evicted.  To me it seemed it would only create more RP, and it seems that most people tend to cycle out characters after a reasonable amount of time, basically bringing their story to an end and moving on to new ones.  So I personally would like to think that they wouldn't all get taken up by a handful of players who would just keep them forever... but if that is a problem in Port, as mentioned, then it likely would be here as well.

[DM Tarokka]

In the Italian Ravenloft we had a few things similar to housing.

In the Barovia, Forlorn and Sithicus parts was not possible, not even as a form of mediation. Only one character had something in Barovia, but it was related anyway to the Morninglord faction.

In Borca there were many possibilities, but it was all reduced to some 5-6 establishments. A couple were lands with activities (farmhouses), the rest were "villas". Things were only rented because in Borca everything belongs to Ivana Boritsi. The prices of villas went from 500k to 2 million (for 1 year). In this way the DMs could remove the "ownership" when they saw the places unused: for the bigger and more expensive places, it forced collaboration among groups of players. I'd like something similar to this, which was limited, supervised and with potential of spreading the game. That is farmhouses to give works, for instance, and villas to have groups sharing a place and having events in it.

[Strigoi]

i agree that there shouldn't be ownership, since barovia has land lords who manage strahds land. the two barovians i currently play have living quarters sorta. naturally all garda live at the citadel, but my barovian merchant noble lives at the blue water inn.

what i would like to see is Natives being able to obtain a permanent Key to whatever inn they choose to rent/live at. in the case of barovians (specially noble merchants) its hard to make cash, and would add a sense of connection to the land. something that could be awarded maybe as taty suggested, just an idea.

seems to me allot more simpler than making new areas/housing, and just making more use out of current areas we already have by adding a few more keys in the pallet. id personally like to see more activity at the inns anyway.

[dutchy]

you know its assumed guards live in the citadel as thats the housing we got, but when they are not on duty most should/would be home or outdoors.

guards normaly would only be in the citadel for shifts, but due to game mechanics we "live" there

[Gorasin]

It's called a Barracks area. Since they on patrol at nights in the citadel. Makes sense for them to have a barracks for them to sleep at.