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Author Topic: [Spell] Animate Dead  (Read 10399 times)

Bluebomber4evr

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2011, 12:16:34 PM »
I don't particularly care about mechanics. It just seems odd to me that in a setting where undead are a pretty big deal, they fall apart within a short period of time. Imagine a PC necromancer trying to set up a scene in some obscure crypt he's hiding out and as he's having his villainous monologue, his skeletal minion becomes a pile of worthless bone. You can't even give orders in-character in that period of time. Same case with Dominate Person. You really discourage any sort of roleplay that might be associated with it and basically make its only real use involve spamming the spell over and over again to farm out dungeons.
The setting is taken into account by the fact that summon order has been bumped up one level from the standard spell. You always summon more powerful undead than you would at the same level in a standard NWN module.

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Sewerfish

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2011, 04:03:12 PM »
Would be cool if an undead could be taken as a familiar.

ethinos

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2011, 04:07:18 PM »
Would be cool if an undead could be taken as a familiar.

You do get the skeletal bat option, at least.
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Budly

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2011, 05:55:08 PM »
+1 A window dressing spell allowing a summon of various types with 0ab and 1 HP, just for looks. But adding entirely new spells is hard, I think.

That would be awesome.

APorg

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2011, 06:01:20 PM »
+1 A window dressing spell allowing a summon of various types with 0ab and 1 HP, just for looks. But adding entirely new spells is hard, I think.

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2011, 06:08:17 PM »
Someone ruled out pets only last week. Again.

Draxiss

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2011, 12:52:06 AM »
I, personally, would love to see such things as what Animate Dead is in PnP D&D, since D&D was designed so that PCs could use any of the spells/feats/classes in the Player's Handbook and expansions and still have a balanced campaign. I rather doubt that permanent undead with a cost in onyx gems would happen though, but a person can dream.

Still, it would make sense for undead to have a longer duration, if material components are used, thus making them useful for more than one encounter. Another thing that might be interesting is that if it was possible to sacrifice the undead being powerful, to make more than one, so as to have multiple targets while the really useful fighter/barbarian/probably not paladin goes to town.

Just some ideas to throw out into the mix . . .
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dark_majico

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2011, 08:07:28 AM »
If i can remember correctly, in Ravenloft, Necromancy is more powerful in other setting. Due to the Dark powers, and the whole corruption of the realm itself.


I wish this could be the case for other necromancy spells.

Purist

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2011, 08:17:04 AM »
Whoever voted "it is too long" needs to quit mushrooms.

Axel

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2011, 03:56:44 AM »
Whoever voted "it is too long" needs to quit mushrooms.

And why exactly do you think that I am doing drugs?

Actually, let me rephrase that. Why don't you ask why I voted that the duration is too long instead of insulting me? What do you hope to gain from your insult? Do you really think I'll take you serious now that you have accused me of being high on mushrooms?

Purist

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2011, 04:55:14 AM »
Wow, wow and wow. I didn't mean it. It was rather a playful comment thrown in the cauldron, since I can't tell who voted in what. I bet you'd take it more lightly if I had added a smiley " :) " there. If anything I apologise.

Anyway, it is not too long IMO. I know little about settings and books, but by what I've read, necromancy is supposed to be strong in ravenloft.

Mayvind

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2011, 06:45:40 AM »
Whoever voted "it is too long" needs to quit mushrooms.

And why exactly do you think that I am doing drugs?

Actually, let me rephrase that. Why don't you ask why I voted that the duration is too long instead of insulting me? What do you hope to gain from your insult? Do you really think I'll take you serious now that you have accused me of being high on mushrooms?


So why it is toooo looong ?  :D you take me more serious now i bet !

HellsPanda

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2011, 07:37:17 AM »
Because any mage who knows how to buff a summon, can solo almost alll dungeons with any summon spell on the current durations with little to no risk?

Mayvind

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2011, 02:29:58 PM »
Hellpanda you're no Axel ! .. wait a minute are you also Danish and Norwegian ?

HellsPanda

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2011, 04:01:30 PM »
I am not the first, but the second.

Nox

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2011, 04:34:09 PM »
Because any mage who knows how to buff a summon, can solo almost alll dungeons with any summon spell on the current durations with little to no risk?

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dark_majico

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2011, 01:35:48 PM »
Whoever voted "it is too long" needs to quit mushrooms.

And why exactly do you think that I am doing drugs?

Actually, let me rephrase that. Why don't you ask why I voted that the duration is too long instead of insulting me? What do you hope to gain from your insult? Do you really think I'll take you serious now that you have accused me of being high on mushrooms?


He could have said crack, you got lucky with mushrooms.

Rave

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2011, 01:47:35 PM »
Guys, before this starts into a flame war....
the votes are 19 vs 24, is that not worth anything to redoubt the summons duration? :roll:

Mark Johansen

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2011, 04:04:25 PM »
Since my last post I’ve taken an step back to let others share their view on the subject before turning it into an discussion. After having read though all the players reaction to my topic at hand I’ve been taking some time to think deeply about the subject.

The main reaction from the players have turned quite hostile and only left an response about the users of this spell should seek out players to buff instead of an given skeleton.

If we take point in this opinion I must agree, yes – we should take care to buff and prepare other players with enchantments and alike. But there is times where players do not wish to linger on the shoulders of others. We all known fighters, druids and paladins can all manage them self as long as they can pump up on potions and varnishes – but when you look to the mages they don’t have this measure of protection or opportunity. The only way the mages can defend them self towards NPC, MPC, APC is to use haste, invis and hope we have the right spells ready for the correct enemy.

And as to Jay’s “[Watches the thread dissolve into another "What class has it worse" thread]” surely I am, but I’m not aiming towards give me this give me that, I’m not say 24hours as the normal spell I’m simply saying that we need something that will last longer than two minutes.

Animate Dead is an strong spell and I believe that’s also the reason it was moved to lvl 10 so that mages would not come dependent of this spell at low level – if the server does not trust an player at level 10 not to misuse the powers or level I would like to believe that the player would not have gotten there…

As animate dead is a necromancer spell and the meaning of necromancy being so strong in PotM it would make sense for the duration of the spell to be longer. Again I’m not talking 24 hours but just longer than the current time.

To Bluebomber4evar’s comment “We don't need to throw spellcasters a bone, as low-magic worlds always make casters more powerful than non-casters; they don't need to be more powerful.”.

Surely I can understand how tough an line you are walking but surely you are taking away the necromancers lifeline, mages are more commonly left behind because they aren’t really needed along the way as long as we have items that are able to subtract them from the equations. In this mindset I’m talking about the lore enchanting items, the mass production of varnishes and alike – surely taking to mind that the server is an low-magic world this seems to highly neglect that.

Also looking at the pool I mounted on the topic It’s nice to see that I’m not alone on the topic – I would love to see the further responses from the dm’s and developers.

Your faithfully
Mark S. Johansen

HellsPanda

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2011, 04:06:55 PM »
This is one of the most usefull spells we have at its current duration, and it will last maybe 2 encounters around level 10.

dark_majico

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2011, 04:20:27 PM »
The duration will not be extended. We lowered the duration because the default duration just encouraged casters to solo everything instead of grouping up.

We don't need to throw spellcasters a bone, as low-magic worlds always make casters more powerful than non-casters; they don't need to be more powerful.

I think we have our answer.

Kendric98

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2011, 05:13:47 PM »
Still 54.3 percent of us still think its to short so we win so there :P

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2011, 05:18:31 PM »
yes, but this isn't a democracy, so that vote doesn't count, but I am sure the Devs will take the numbers as a suggestion, and look at it closely again

Tyrianstrasz

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2011, 05:29:24 AM »
I think the viewpoint on this is wront, dont buff the duration for the sake of giving wizards/sorcs a powerfull tool, but to enable more interesting RP. How the hell am I supposed to RP a Necromancer when my summons dissapear after a couple of minutes?

Bodhidharma

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Re: [Spell] Animate Dead
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2011, 10:48:45 AM »
You don't, summons are only meant for PVP around here.