Author Topic: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?  (Read 4496 times)

Winter83

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 995
  • 100% Ranger
    • The hunter's query
Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« on: November 03, 2011, 07:50:25 AM »
I have seen it on an other server that with this this scripting method you applied on PoTM, things like using a command to change one's name can be implemented.

I wonder if such is on the list of the development team. In game I often encounter villains, even played an AMPC, and Giles sometimes would love to use disguises, BUT...

....having that annoying floaty name would make it impossible, even if I change the clothing, or a were-creature shifts, the floaty name remains giving many players tips and triggers unwanted metagaming, thus making the life of villains difficult.

I witnessed the disguise system on this other server, where despite the initial fear of having that abused by the players it turned out pretty well and in sudden the villains managed to plot, spies started to work, and in general everything became much smoother and more metagame-free.

There was certainly a counter to disguise, which was the Spot skill, so upon examining the character in question with a high enough spot skill one could determine his true identity. Disguise was based on perform/bluff.... since we have no bluff here, perhaps influence would do it.

What do you think? In the future is such might happen on PoTM?


The Perfect Circle: The Hollow : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avgiqNapUx0

HellsPanda

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 6598
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2011, 07:56:46 AM »
It is on the lets look at list at some point, for the NWNX features. But might not have the highest priority.

monsinyana

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1063
  • Dead Post Necromancer
    • Battlelords of the Twenty-Third Century®
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2011, 08:14:42 AM »
Arelith had this ability open up if you got 20 Perform Rank where you could use a 'disguise' that turned you into a run-of-the-mill NPC toon (even though your name didnt change). the examine tool was then needed by other pcs and it told you if you saw through the disguise or not (in the yellow command promps)


it was very neat and fostered a lot of rp. the player base was also very good at not meta-gaming it.


Perhaps tie something like that to 'Influence' so it could potentially be available to any PC on PotM?
Loremaster Clydessa G.F. Swift, Toril - Deceased
Sister Anne - Hallowed Witch of Hala, Mordentshire
Frothy! - Devout drunk of Wenta the Alewife, Oerth

Purist

  • Red Academy
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2277
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2011, 10:54:24 AM »
I reaffirm that we need the disguise skill. Again, just because someone is good at convincing others or acting well, that doesn't mean that that person can easily hide his identity. Perhaps make those skills give some synergy bonus to disguise.
I can see a rebel disguised to pass through the mob, but perhaps when confronted he could give away his identity.


Edit add: Another example is the one of a Caliban, disguising itself to go unnoticed. But those shunned creatures, normally, suck at eloquence/social skills.

Norture

  • Still noobin' it up.
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3516
  • ???
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2011, 12:35:26 PM »
Ultima Online had disguise kits like this. They'd let you change your appearance and give you a fake name over your head. Ultima Online handled all rogue skills better than NWN, actually. You could poison food, stealing from players was far better thought out with snoop skills to look into the player's inventory. The game is far less gear based, there's value in items outside of gear which is a huge thing. Like, look at the Vardo. Professional finders... Unless it's a DM event, all we sell is gear because it's the only thing with value. Makes me sad that all of the RPers flocked to NWN, it's such a terrible game.

herkles

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 7311
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2011, 01:08:15 PM »
I wonder if it is possible to do things like that in NWN? being able to poison drinks and food would be cool, being able to disguise yourself as someone other then who you were would be helpful too. Didn't ultima also have player housing as well norture?


Mayvind

  • Red Academy
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 748
  • I won't Bite
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2011, 01:21:04 PM »
Ultima Online had disguise kits like this. They'd let you change your appearance and give you a fake name over your head. Ultima Online handled all rogue skills better than NWN, actually. You could poison food, stealing from players was far better thought out with snoop skills to look into the player's inventory. The game is far less gear based, there's value in items outside of gear which is a huge thing. Like, look at the Vardo. Professional finders... Unless it's a DM event, all we sell is gear because it's the only thing with value. Makes me sad that all of the RPers flocked to NWN, it's such a terrible game.

Ultima Online now that one bring back memories ! Dreadlord Mayvind, Dreadlady Shadow, Europa server and Greatlake. Macro from 0 to 100 in magery in 2 days, Run around naked and only with Halberd, casting Corp Por, instant hit combos. ... those were the day.

Norture

  • Still noobin' it up.
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3516
  • ???
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2011, 02:38:44 PM »
I wonder if it is possible to do things like that in NWN? being able to poison drinks and food would be cool, being able to disguise yourself as someone other then who you were would be helpful too. Didn't ultima also have player housing as well norture?
Ultima Online has customizable player housing. It is pretty awesome. There really is something to be said about having a place to put items, it gives value to non-gear things. Not that NWN can really support that, most items turn into a sack on the ground and having too many items produces lag.

Ultima Online now that one bring back memories ! Dreadlord Mayvind, Dreadlady Shadow, Europa server and Greatlake. Macro from 0 to 100 in magery in 2 days, Run around naked and only with Halberd, casting Corp Por, instant hit combos. ... those were the day.
Pre-AoS UO, it was possible to make a bunch of new characters, and be able to go and kill geared out players. My main was a thief, Dragoona from Atlantic. Thief PvP was awesome, it was an entirely separate thing from regular PvP. The goal was steal, then survive and escape. Although Dragoona was a disarm thief, and I mashed skills together to produce a disarm thief that could kill to some extent. Steal weapon, steal bandages, poison/fireball the guy to death. Another thing I like about UO, you can mash skills together, not have them be maxed out, and have something effective. For those who haven't played it, the game doesn't have levels. You get 700 skill points, and each skill can be raised to a max of 100 (although in later expansions they changed it to 120 when you use an item). So I went with 100 stealing, 100 wrestling, 100 armslore (wrestling and arms lore required for disarming), 100 hiding, then something like 90 magery, ~60 meditation (for regenerating mana faster), ~50 evaluating intelligence (increased spell damage), 70 snooping, and I had about 30 item identification back then, back when you needed it to reveal magic properties on things (sort of like lore).

I really do hate NWN so much as a game, but as I said before... It's where the RPers are. This is the best RP community I've been in, and that alone really makes it worthwhile. The Ultima Online RP communities I've tried have been full of bad.

Bato

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 679
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2011, 03:05:15 PM »
Well coming from Arelith.. And watching how people use disguise, I was really disappointed.
There were a few people who used it well, and were great with it.
But the majority of the use I saw was akin to them changing their name to "person". Or doing things like, one event sticks out in my mind because it was half the server, disguising as "Jade bay packers" or something.

Norture

  • Still noobin' it up.
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3516
  • ???
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2011, 03:19:52 PM »
The way UO would handle it was it would give you a random NPC name, most of which were very terrible. It did lead to a lot of re-using the disguise kit until I got a name that a player may potentially have, but it also gets around the problem you're describing.

BlackEarth22

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2011, 07:18:12 AM »
Personally I think it would be a great idea. I'm sure that would take a ton of scripting work

Kagetora

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 299
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2011, 09:14:58 AM »
As opposedto being allowed to CHANGE your name, it would probably be a lot less hassle to code in something where you can turn your "floaty name" OFF.  You are just someone without a name until you tell it to someone.  Kind of like RL.

That would prevent all sorts of stupidity like some of the examples mentioned above.  OTOH, anonymity leads to bad behavior in human beings almost always.  If this were implemented, expect the murder rate to skyrocket.   :lol:

The Prophet of Misinformation

  • Kept you waiting, huh?
  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 1672
  • The Forever #Trigger
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2011, 09:16:06 AM »
... Am I the only one who recalls the unrelenting, unregulated h4x that befell UO?

I happen to enjoy the mechanics of the MMO but when everyone has 100 in every applicable skill and is guarded by a retinue of red dragons and balrons, everything somewhat goes to hell.
"The brave man inattentive to his duty, is worth little more to his country than the coward who deserts in the hour of danger."
~Andrew Jackson


Thoraion

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2011, 02:56:54 PM »
i like the idea of disguises.
What about a basic mechanism like replacing the name with a generic description when wearing a helmet, mask or hood?
This ignores skills for disguise and recognition - but those are only meant for sophisticated disguises and not for blunt obscuring elements as mentioned above.

For the chat, however, it may make sense to keep the real names - at the very least for two reasons:
- to keep a conversation followable
- voices are harder to obscure (yes, i know the latest batman movies...), but at some point it just becomes ridiculous
Currently playing:
no characters, will eventually be back

Characters in stock:
- Darian Eisenhand        - Ansgar "Frettchen" Ostvent
- Thorben Eibenfinder    - Einar Falkensang

dark_majico

  • Guest
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2011, 12:43:49 AM »
Yeah having no name sounds awesome, but if you don't see the speech bubble, you have to look at the chat log, and you wont know who said what. Sounds like a nightmare to me, especially since people have an annoying habit of hitting the enter key too quickly and in quick succession.

Jeebs

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 952
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2011, 10:45:20 PM »
Guilty as charged... I type up to 70 wpm, so I can be bad for chat spamming when I'm feeling particularly inspired... so given that, I completely agree with the above statement.  I did like the idea of the disguise skill Arelith implemented.  Here's my point of view on it all.  You can disguise yourself as it is by wearing a completely different outfit, and really I think it's fair to say that you should have said outfit in your inventory to wear it, rather than just use a command that magically changes your appearance.  Granted, you can't change your facial features, but what about this: with a high enough Perform (since I can't think of any other art-related skill), you can use an "@disguise <name>" command to give you a new name, hide your character's description and temporarily give you a random head until you turn off disguise or log off.  When you use the "Examine" provided on the server on a disguised character, it could roll Spot (is it just me that thinks Search is more appropriate here?) vs. the target's Perform skill and thus determine if you see through the disguise or not.  Successfully seeing past someone's disguise would show the player their description and real name in the action feed, otherwise it shows up as blank (if it's not already) and the fake name they are using.   Would that make everyone happy?  I think it sounds sensible without giving players anything overly exploitable.  I was trying of a way to disguise your voice as well, but that's just problematic and really could just be handled by having the PC trying to do so roll Perform checks and emote that they are trying to alter their voice.

Edit: Perhaps a cosmetics kit item can be made and is required to disguise yourself.  Representing the make-up, wigs and what have you that you're using to change your face.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 11:03:39 AM by Serillian »

LackofCertainty

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2012, 05:48:41 PM »
The little topic about disguises and murder in the OCR thread made me think of this again.

1. In my opinion, Turning off floaty names altogether is a bad idea. (as mentioned, mainly because of the chat)

2. Perform checks don't really fit imo.  Lying is bluff, which is influence on this server.  Influence already affects hiding your OCR, so it'd make sense that disguises would fit that too.

3.  My idea for how it would work would be (as some people have mentioned) similar to how the identifying monsters system works.  When I use the disguise command on myself, it sets my name to whatever I want it set to.  If someone uses their examine tool on me, they get a spot and listen check against my influence.  If they fail, they can't check again for X minutes.  If they succed, they see my name as "Disguisy Fake-Name[Real Name]" and then they get additional feedback based on whether they beat me with listen, spot, or both.

Dread

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 9137
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2012, 06:15:14 PM »

2. Perform checks don't really fit imo.  Lying is bluff, which is influence on this server.  Influence already affects hiding your OCR, so it'd make sense that disguises would fit that too.


What if you're an actor or actress? Playing another role would be second nature to you.

Amon-Si

  • Inventor of the cat
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2418
  • Freelance troublemaker
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2012, 06:56:05 PM »
Make it recognise both influence -and- perform, perhaps?

Ophie Kitty

  • Inactive - Quit
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1201
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2012, 07:58:15 PM »
Make it recognise both influence -and- perform, perhaps?

Using perform is really just an excuse to give bards something else for a skill they're already required to put max ranks into.. and would be like saying druids can use animal empathy while polymorphed because they're really good at handling animals, so its used in pretending to be one too.

Unless disguise is added as a skill, influence is really the only fair judgemental call for which skill to use.

Emomina

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2645
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2012, 08:56:32 PM »
Perform is not supposed to be a bard only skill however, changing that would make it the right one to do, if not adding a skill.
I survived the Blue Water Inn Massacre and all I got was this t-shirt.

LackofCertainty

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2012, 12:43:31 AM »
To bring it up again, the fact that influence affects your OCR suggests to me that the disguise skill is covered in influence.

Acting is not the same as creating a disguise, people.  You can act all day, and pretend to be a wrinkled old lady, but when the guard looks at your face and sees that you're actually a 20 year old man, no amount of believable emotion in your delivery is going to get yourself off the hook.


One more time for the people in the cheap seats.  You don't hire Brad Pitt to do makeup for you.  You hire someone with a high influence skill. : P



Edit: Also, acting is not improv.  Acting is when you are up on stage working from a script.  Improv (aka influence or bluff) is when the guard notices that you have your hand down his pocket, and you try to convince him that you saw him drop his wallet and were just returning it to him.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 12:45:45 AM by LackofCertainty »

Knas

  • Developers
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 8733
  • Worthless phony
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2012, 12:20:34 PM »
There is no disguise skill in nwn. We use the influence skill on our server to cover it, bluff, diplomacy and persuade. As always remember these rolls can't be used to force rp on other players however.

Winter83

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 995
  • 100% Ranger
    • The hunter's query
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2012, 09:31:19 AM »
Sorry for thread-necromancy, but I lately noted that unintentional metagaming makes the life of villains a nightmare. Whilst we are all responsible not to do that, but still that pesky floaty name just affects ongoing rp, especially infiltration, evilness-rp.

Let's say an MPC trying to hide his true identity --> a quick note on the playlist, seeing a known name suddenly being hostile, makes it obvious he's a hidden monster --> players will be meta-cautious what to say nearby said character, or start to make [inspects closely] roleplays on the character no matter they have no ic idea that she/he's a monster at night.

Same goes for disguises (not face masks), for instance a newly colored armor and a face covering helmet. Just the floaty name is enough for players to recognize the said character.

When I played a werebear AMPC, even though I never uncovered my identity to anyone, my char's name became known through meta. One unintentional meta --> rumors spreads, and the icly unknown data suddenly becomes known data. It's the "Hey, I heard from others what's your name" effect.

Doing mischievious things with the floaty name atop just your signiture on your death wish, soon you get a lot of characters asking odd questions, acting suspicious even though they in character never identified the villain.

So if not a disguise then something to change the floaty name to something. And hopefully to something not silly like "Nameless traveler"

For instance John Doe the cunning thief can change his garments and his name to Derek Smith --> unintentional meta problem solved! --> More villains appear, most mischievious rp taking place.


The Perfect Circle: The Hollow : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avgiqNapUx0

Bodhidharma

  • Guest
Re: Disguise and name changes - perhaps?
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2012, 10:22:25 AM »
You do know that you can check usernames too but that is not often first priorities, it would perhaps be a bit easier to hide your MPCness if you didn't get auto hostile turned on and if the MPCs had a widget that would like....teleport them to a room with a NPC namechanger, change name > booted > come back with new name.